Kingsbury and Keim get contract extensions

[mjb21aztd]

The thought of Keim extended makes this a difficult offseason to get excited about.

At least before I could think Keim would be desperate to find young talent.

Least kliffy gets to keep his mancave that he doesnt really des for 5 yrs....

 

[Jetstream Green]

Totally fair! They each found unique edges for recruiting:

TCU decided to become the School that Cares About Defense

Baylor became the School That Doesn’t Care How Many Women You Assault

Kliff was positioned to out Big XII Texas, OKU and OK State and was never going to manage it. Sad!

Baylor also decided to excel at track

 

[QuebecCard]

I think a Kliff and Keim extension almost certainly leads to a Kyler extension.

Probably.

I can't imagine that MB decided on these extensions over a few drinks one evening.

Keim, I suggest, came forward with a 'business' plan that evidently included KK and Michael signed off.

I'm fascinated to see what now occurs in this offseason.

 

[speedy]

Idk if it's been said yet, but...

Perhaps MB is giving theses extensions AND getting TFO of the way.

Maybe he did some DMT, had an epiphany, or an entire staff/players finally got through to him.

I think the 5 yrs deals are his way of showing his "commitment" to stepping back/out and letting people do their jobs.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The things we all have to rationalize to stay Cardinals fans...

 

[BullheadCardFan]

The things we all have to rationalize to stay Cardinals fans...

Mental self punishment

 

[BritCard]

Idk if it's been said yet, but...

Perhaps MB is giving theses extensions AND getting TFO of the way.

Maybe he did some DMT, had an epiphany, or an entire staff/players finally got through to him.

I think the 5 yrs deals are his way of showing his "commitment" to stepping back/out and letting people do their jobs.

I wish. I like Mike but this team would be far better off if he kept his nose out of everything football related and stuck to marketing, logistics, operations etc

 

[QuebecCard]

I wish. I like Mike but this team would be far better off if he kept his nose out of everything football related and stuck to marketing, logistics, operations etc

Apart from it's not likely to happen, we have no real info on Mike's actual day-to-day involvement beyond approval and keen interest. Every effective organization is in the end a form of democratic-fascism. Democracy allows, nurtures and encourages inputs, but in the end, you need a fascist at the head of the table to give the nod to this or that approach. If Mike B. is limiting his power to approving an overall strategy and signing the cheques, I see no issue. I also have no problem with his interest in the process of gauging free agency and the draft. If he however he's making suggestions (and an owner's suggestion is not that) on who to sign in FA, draft and who should play or not during the season then that's interference, which invariably proves detrimental.

 

[BritCard]

Apart from it's not likely to happen, we have no real info on Mike's actual day-to-day involvement beyond approval and keen interest. Every effective organization is in the end a form of democratic-fascism. Democracy allows, nurtures and encourages inputs, but in the end, you need a fascist at the head of the table to give the nod to this or that approach. If Mike B. is limiting his power to approving an overall strategy and signing the cheques, I see no issue. I also have no problem with his interest in the process of gauging free agency and the draft. If he however he's making suggestions (and an owner's suggestion is not that) on who to sign in FA, draft and who should play or not during the season then that's interference, which invariably proves detrimental.

You're right. We don't know to exactly what extent he's involved.

We do know, from Flight Plan, Draft Room and various other Cards media over the years that he is in all those player personnel meetings. In my opinion, as the owner you can't be in those meetings and not influence them. I don't think any of us think Mike is just sat there taking notes or listening in for his own benefit.

We know he's heavily involved in hiring coaches from things like he hired outside help in Acorsi and used A-Dub in coaching searches (completely castrating Keim). We know he handled Fitz contract. There were strong rumors that Wilks was Bidwill's hire against Keim's judgement although we don't know if that's true.

So I think it's safe to assume from what we do know that it's likely he's quite heavily involved in player personnel matters.

Do I think Mike is saying "Draft this guy" or "Sign this FA"? No, although we have evidence to suggest that's different with HC's. But he's involved enough in the process to influence Keim into certain decisions that otherwise he may not have made. Certainly enough to muddy the waters on what's on Keim and what's on Mike.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ouchie, you wrote, "Frankly I’m amazed at the amount of free pass kliff gets from some here."

I don't know for sure what you mean by "free pass", but, from what I read on here, I think it is just the opposite.

He's our coach and I think I plan to support him, for whatever that's worth.

“…from some here.” That means just some of the posters. Words have meaning.

I always give people the benefit of the doubt at first. But once they’ve shown me who they are I’m more of a “prove it” guy. When his track record is nothing but season-ending meltdowns and now one of the most embarrassing playoff losses I can recall he’s going to have to disprove the facts on the table with actions. That said I don’t think he sucks. The ascending season records speak to that. But his trend is 100% consistent thus far. I need to see that he can do other than meltdown again before I’ll believe it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I find it a ridiculously stupid argument to not hold Kliff accountable for being an actual “Head Coach” at either level. You dismiss his college record because he wanted no part of the job of recruiting and thus his teams sucked.

Not germane to his performance as a Cardinals coach.

And in the NFL, as Head Coach, he wanted (nor deserved) zero part of the defense and because of that, saddled himself with a mediocre at best DC, which has hampered the team as well.

That's a bit of a stretch. I would expect any college coach coming to the NFL to have to lean on their GM to help fill out their staff.

Even then, Joseph's defense have steadily gotten better and haven't exactly been a huge liability. I'm not a huge Joseph fan by any stretch, but to act like he has been terrible is pretty silly. Last years defense was better than league average, so it's not exactly a knock on Joseph.

When you can’t be a complete head coach at either level, you’re not a competent Head Coach, IMO snd it’s hurt him both in college and pros.

No head coach, save Bill Belicheck is a "complete HC". Pretty much every coach as a specialty and they hire someone else to handle their non-specialty.

 

[Krangodnzr]

No, that means recruiting was the issue with kliff. And it goes back to what I stated back when people were poo-pooing that, recruiting is a huge part of being a college coach. If kliff ignored that detail of the job bc he didn’t like it, what’s to say he doesn’t do the same with details he doesn’t like (say . . . game management which continues as an issue in his third season) at the nfl level?

Slippery Slope argument essentially.

Just as you pointed out, TCU - arguably a more fringe team than Tech - was able to get past the recruiting hurdle. Kliff never did.

And the recruiting failures are relevant how to his NFL performance?

And let’s not rewrite history . . . Kliff didn’t leave Tech bc he didn’t want to recruit anymore. He got CANNED. So people a LOT more familiar with his coaching and with a LOT more riding on the line than we have basically said, “nope, not a good enough coach.”

No one is rewriting history here. What's your point?

Frankly I’m amazed at the amount of free pass kliff gets from some here.

There are other issues with Kliff such as game management that are actually germane to the argument on whether Kliff is a good coach. Pulling out Texas Tech stuff is laughably bad when you consider that the jobs are almost apples and oranges.

 

[Krangodnzr]

“…from some here.” That means just some of the posters. Words have meaning.

I always give people the benefit of the doubt at first. But once they’ve shown me who they are I’m more of a “prove it” guy. When his track record is nothing but season-ending meltdowns and now one of the most embarrassing playoff losses I can recall he’s going to have to disprove the facts on the table with actions. That said I don’t think he sucks. The ascending season records speak to that. But his trend is 100% consistent thus far. I need to see that he can do other than meltdown again before I’ll believe it.

That Carolina playoff loss with Lindley says hold my beer LOL.

My issue with what you are saying is that I see a false equivalence. Correlation isn't causation, it's all just poor logic.

I pulled up every season of Texas Tech football and the results were all relatively similar save a game or two. Texas Tech would run into the teeth of their Big XII schedule and essentially lose to the teams that are often ranked later in the year.

That's not what we are seeing with the Cardinals. We watched Kliff's QB fall apart two years in a row. You know I'm a Murray fan, but the numbers tell the story.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Slippery Slope argument essentially.

And the recruiting failures are relevant how to his NFL performance?

No one is rewriting history here. What's your point?

There are other issues with Kliff such as game management that are actually germane to the argument on whether Kliff is a good coach. Pulling out Texas Tech stuff is laughably bad when you consider that the jobs are almost apples and oranges.

Enough of the merry-go-round. We ain’t convincing the other of our position.

That said, he’s fallen flat on his face in literally every single back half of seasons in which he’s been a head coach. Provide whatever excuses you want, but it’s still happened without even a single outlier existing for you to use to prove your point.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That Carolina playoff loss with Lindley says hold my beer LOL.

My issue with what you are saying is that I see a false equivalence. Correlation isn't causation, it's all just poor logic.

I pulled up every season of Texas Tech football and the results were all relatively similar save a game or two. Texas Tech would run into the teeth of their Big XII schedule and essentially lose to the teams that are often ranked later in the year.

That's not what we are seeing with the Cardinals. We watched Kliff's QB fall apart two years in a row. You know I'm a Murray fan, but the numbers tell the story.

Three years in a row. I don’t know why you and others refuse to recognize his first year back half meltdown. ALL THREE YEARS.

3-3-1
2-7

 

[Krangodnzr]

Three years in a row. I don’t know why you and others refuse to recognize his first year back half meltdown. ALL THREE YEARS.

3-3-1
2-7

The first year I don't accept because you have to account for the teams the Cardinals actually played. They opened with a relatively easier schedule and after the mid point, that schedule was really tough, especially considering they were a team with the #1 overall pick.

Looking at just the numbers doesn't tell the story at all.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Enough of the merry-go-round. We ain’t convincing the other of our position.

That said, he’s fallen flat on his face in literally every single back half of seasons in which he’s been a head coach.

Nope you haven't convinced me, and from looking at the data with more than just raw numbers, I saw the actual cause. I'm less convinced by those arguments the more I look at each season.

Provide whatever excuses you want, but it’s still happened without even a single outlier existing for you to use to prove your point.

"Excuse"

Trying to be a jerk by calling it that? Wrong side of the bed today LOL? I guess I have a sense of justice that I at least want to see some accuracy it what people are saying.

 

[Stout]

That Carolina playoff loss with Lindley says hold my beer LOL.

My issue with what you are saying is that I see a false equivalence. Correlation isn't causation, it's all just poor logic.

I pulled up every season of Texas Tech football and the results were all relatively similar save a game or two. Texas Tech would run into the teeth of their Big XII schedule and essentially lose to the teams that are often ranked later in the year.

That's not what we are seeing with the Cardinals. We watched Kliff's QB fall apart two years in a row. You know I'm a Murray fan, but the numbers tell the story.

Not even close, for me. What else did we expect with Lindley? He wasn't our starter, nor is he supposed to be a generational talent at the position.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Not even close, for me. What else did we expect with Lindley? He wasn't our starter, nor is he supposed to be a generational talent at the position.

The Panthers were a fringe playoff team that year and they EMBARRASSED the Cardinals.

The Rams ended up being the Champs.

 

[Stout]

The Panthers were a fringe playoff team that year and they EMBARRASSED the Cardinals.

The Rams ended up being the Champs.

It was still Ryan Lindley in a QB-driven league. They aren't even close to being comparable.

 

[wa52lz]

The Panthers were a fringe playoff team that year and they EMBARRASSED the Cardinals.

The Rams ended up being the Champs.

The sad thing is i was more excited and confident about that Carolina game then i was this year vs LA. I couldn't have been the only one?

 

[Krangodnzr]

The sad thing is i was more excited and confident about that Carolina game then i was this year vs LA. I couldn't have been the only one?

You weren't. I had a horrible feeling about that game.

 

[blindseyed]

The sad thing is i was more excited and confident about that Carolina game then i was this year vs LA. I couldn't have been the only one?

Nope, I didn't even wanna watch it, I just knew it was gonna make me sick...it's like being invited to my in-laws for dinner lol

 

[Cheesebeef]

You weren't. I had a horrible feeling about that game.

I threw down 350 on that game... and pretty much knew exactly what I was getting myself into.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I threw down 350 on that game... and pretty much knew exactly what I was getting myself into.

I was considering it...but ultimately didn't.

I feel for you guys who there. At least Rams fans aren't a strong enough fan base to really heckle.