Kirilenko and big man updates

[Chris_Sanders]

But he's a rent-a-forward. Do you honestly believe the Jazz would extend him?

The Jazz fans would gladly rent Marion for one year to get rid of Kirilenko's contract.

 

[Chaplin]

Probably not, but they can't afford another big salary in 2009 anyway. They'll have Boozer, Williams, and Okur, which is going to be about $34-35 million right there. Do you think they'd rather "lose Marion for nothing," or continue to be stuck with a disgruntled Kirilenko for the last two years of his deal?

Take that last sentence, replace "disgruntled" with "overpaid" and apply it to the Suns.

 

[F-Dog]

Take that last sentence, replace "disgruntled" with "overpaid" and apply it to the Suns.

I have no clue which point you're trying to make here.

 

[elindholm]

I have no clue which point you're trying to make here.

I think his point is that Kirilenko will be overpaid for the last two years of his deal -- even more than he is already -- and so Phoenix would be faced with the same problem in 2009 that Utah otherwise would be. That's true, but

* Kirilenko is three years younger than Marion and thus presumably has more good years left, "if healthy,"

* The Suns aren't facing any major rookie extensions in 2009, since they conveniently keep selling all of their first-round picks, and

* Since the Suns' championship window has limited time left, anything that can make the team better now has to be considered. Would trading Marion for Kirilenko do that? It depends on who else is involved in the deal and how (or whether) the Suns would spend the money saved.

 

[F-Dog]

I think his point is that Kirilenko will be overpaid for the last two years of his deal -- even more than he is already -- and so Phoenix would be faced with the same problem in 2009 that Utah otherwise would be.

Possible. But he might be saying that the Suns are as desperate to unload Marion's contract as the Jazz are to unload Kirilenko's--which may have been true at the start of the summer, but if there's any truth to it now, the Suns have bigger problems ahead than who's lining up at PF.


Or, he might just be putting one word in front of another. This is Chaplin we're talking about...

 

[azirish]

AK has made it clear he wants out, but has not made it clear just how much. As Kobe has found, it is very hard to force a team to trade a highly paid guy unless he threatens to create locker room havoc that effects on the floor performance.

One thing is clear, if AK forces a trade, the Suns are the only team that will come close to offering value. But there are a lot of issues and I'd be surprised if it happened.

 

[elindholm]

One thing is clear, if AK forces a trade, the Suns are the only team that will come close to offering value.

Based on what? First of all, the Suns probably won't offer value, and secondly, there's no way to predict what another team will or won't do. I could see the Hornets offering Stojakovic, Rasual Butler, and a pick, for example, which could be considered good value if Stojakovic can pass a physical.

 

[azirish]

Based on what? First of all, the Suns probably won't offer value, and secondly, there's no way to predict what another team will or won't do. I could see the Hornets offering Stojakovic, Rasual Butler, and a pick, for example, which could be considered good value if Stojakovic can pass a physical.

Interesting. Have they given up on Peja already?

 

[elindholm]

Interesting. Have they given up on Peja already?

I didn't say it would happen, of course, only that it strikes me as possible. Stojakovic has been a bust there so far, and the Hornets have enough of a core now that they could consider making a more substantial investment in their intermediate-term future. (Kirilenko is about four years younger.) Stojakovic, "if healthy" (here we go again), could be a great fit in Utah, since Boozer is capable of drawing a lot of attention but they don't have much of a perimeter attack.

 

[fordronken]

Based on what? First of all, the Suns probably won't offer value, and secondly, there's no way to predict what another team will or won't do. I could see the Hornets offering Stojakovic, Rasual Butler, and a pick, for example, which could be considered good value if Stojakovic can pass a physical.

There are a lot of trades that could be useful to the Jazz. It depends on what they want in return. Kirilenko for Maggette and Cassell(expiring)? Kirilenko for Kwame Brown (expiring) and Radmanovich? Kirilenko for Richard Jefferson? Kirilenko for Antawn Jamison (expiring)?

 

[F-Dog]

Based on what? First of all, the Suns probably won't offer value, and secondly, there's no way to predict what another team will or won't do. I could see the Hornets offering Stojakovic, Rasual Butler, and a pick, for example, which could be considered good value if Stojakovic can pass a physical.

That's terrible value IMO.

Stojakovic's contract is much worse than Kirilenko's. It's probably the worst contract in the league right now.

 

[elindholm]

Stojakovic's contract is much worse than Kirilenko's. It's probably the worst contract in the league right now.

Whoa, how do you figure? He's a proven 18-ppg scorer, one of the league's better shooters, still only 30 and, until recently, pretty healthy.

He's only two years older than the superficially similar Rashard Lewis, makes only 75% as much per season, and has four years left instead of six. Which contract would you rather be responsible for?

Stojakovic's contract has negative value -- as does Kirilenko's -- but it's nowhere near the worst contract in the league.

 

[carey]

I didn't say it would happen, of course, only that it strikes me as possible. Stojakovic has been a bust there so far, and the Hornets have enough of a core now that they could consider making a more substantial investment in their intermediate-term future. (Kirilenko is about four years younger.) Stojakovic, "if healthy" (here we go again), could be a great fit in Utah, since Boozer is capable of drawing a lot of attention but they don't have much of a perimeter attack.

I wouldn't say he's been a bust. He's just been injured. He was playing pretty well before his injury last year and so were the Hornets. I wouldn't be surprised if they were a playoff team this year, and I might actually make it to some non-Suns Hornets games this year.

 

[Mainstreet]

When Stojakovic played for the Kings he was awesome. I haven't followed his career much since. He was a scary good shooter with the Kings.

 

[nowagimp]

That's terrible value IMO.

Stojakovic's contract is much worse than Kirilenko's. It's probably the worst contract in the league right now.

F-Dog I agree with your assessment stoichovich's defense is so bad. I might come out of retirement if all NBA defenders were like him. His knees are shot his mobility is nil. This guy is such a stiff, I think you would need a pulse ox to tell he is alive on defense. I was just trying to figure out who in the NBA he can defend and ..... I think skita could take him ... damn! Pat Burke would light him up for 20!

 

[Mainstreet]

F-Dog I agree with your assessment stoichovich's defense is so bad. I might come out of retirement if all NBA defenders were like him. His knees are shot his mobility is nil. This guy is such a stiff, I think you would need a pulse ox to tell he is alive on defense. I was just trying to figure out who in the NBA he can defend and ..... I think skita could take him ... damn! Pat Burke would light him up for 20!

As I said I haven't followed Stojakovic since he was with the Kings. However, I must say this in defense of Stojakovic. At least he was considered a very good basketball player at one time. That's more than can be said of Skita and Burke. These two were never made for prime time whereas Stojakovic has played some big time basketball. Skita and Burke are not likely to light up any competition for 20 points except maybe at garbage time and it is unlikely then.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Jamison for AK straight up has been talked about a lot. I think thats one of the better value based trades.

 

[cly2tw]

Jamison for AK straight up has been talked about a lot. I think thats one of the better value based trades.

It'd be telling of Marion's value if Jazz did this trade instead the rumored AK for Marion, with or without Banks and Giricek involved.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Im still not sold on the idea of moving marion just to dump banks.

If I was dantoni id be calling washington up to make them push the trade harder than the Suns FO is.

The more you think about it, the more it seems like a bad idea to trade marion.

If anything, wait til next summer when extension talks implode and have marion agree to a S&T

"Keeping the core" has been the chant all summer, lets make Kerr stay true to his word imo.

 

[F-Dog]

Whoa, how do you figure? He's a proven 18-ppg scorer, one of the league's better shooters, still only 30 and, until recently, pretty healthy.

He's only two years older than the superficially similar Rashard Lewis, makes only 75% as much per season, and has four years left instead of six. Which contract would you rather be responsible for?

Stojakovic's contract has negative value -- as does Kirilenko's -- but it's nowhere near the worst contract in the league.

Shooting is all Stojakovic can do anymore. He was never able to rebound, and now he's far too slow to guard SFs...even coming off screens is troublesome for him. Plus, his knees are shot (as nowagimp says), so there's no hope for improvement and a pretty good chance he's on the Allan Houston career path.

As bad as Rashard's contract is, I'd still take him over Stojakovic. Stojo right now is kind of the worst-case scenario for what Rashard could be in two years.

 

[elindholm]

Shooting is all Stojakovic can do anymore. He was never able to rebound

He wasn't? He's averaged 6.0 rpg for his career, compared to Kirilenko's 6.2 and Lewis's 5.8. Remind me who we're comparing again?

and now he's far too slow to guard SFs

That could be; I'll confess to not watching any of his 13 games last season. How many did you catch?

Plus, his knees are shot (as nowagimp says), so there's no hope for improvement and a pretty good chance he's on the Allan Houston career path.

Can you quantify that? Obviously he had major injury problems last season, but I hadn't heard that it was time to abandon hope for his knees. Declaring that "there's no hope for improvement" seems pretty extreme.

 

[F-Dog]

That could be; I'll confess to not watching any of his 13 games last season. How many did you catch?

One. Believe me, he was glacial. (Frankly, he looked terrible in Indiana, too, and he's always been a poor defender.)


Lewis is another poor rebounder, and Kirilenko is primarily a shot-blocker. With Kiri, there's hope he can rebound well enough to play PF, but the other two, I don't see it.

 

[elindholm]

One. Believe me, he was glacial. (Frankly, he looked terrible in Indiana, too, and he's always been a poor defender.)

Right, that's what I thought. So his bad defense has been figured into his value all along.

Lewis is another poor rebounder, and Kirilenko is primarily a shot-blocker. With Kiri, there's hope he can rebound well enough to play PF, but the other two, I don't see it.

I'm trying to figure out how that's relevant, since Stojakovic would be a SF in Utah and pretty much anywhere else he would play.

Obviously I'm not going to be singing the praises of Stojakovic's defense, but there are plenty of players out there with fewer dimensions to their game than he has, and more than a couple have hefty contracts. If we were to give his contract a value letter grade, using an old-fashioned scale with C as an average, I'd consider him in the D range.

 

[F-Dog]

Right, that's what I thought.

I don't think that it is.

Obviously I'm not going to be singing the praises of Stojakovic's defense, but there are plenty of players out there with fewer dimensions to their game than he has...

So there are NBA players you would describe as no-dimensional?




Peja used to be a good player, but at this point he's permanently injured and seems to have lost any desire to play. On the court, I would describe him as a more disciplined Adam Morrison, or possibly a less physical Brian Cook.

Whoever takes that contract is going to eat most of it.

 

[elindholm]

So there are NBA players you would describe as no-dimensional?

LOL, no.

First of all, I am obliged to confess a mistake -- Stojakovic's average of 6 rebounds per game is in the playoffs, not the regular season. His regular-season average is 5.1. Still, that's higher than the likes of Michael Redd (4.2), whose role for his team is similar. And Stojakovic's 2 assists per game, while not exactly earth-shattering, are the same as Marion's, who as we all know is the most statistically complete player ever to walk the earth.

Stojakovic is more than just a gunner. Or he used to be, anyway.

Peja used to be a good player, but at this point he's permanently injured and seems to have lost any desire to play.

He pushed himself pretty hard to come back last season, as I recall. As far as the permanently injured part goes, how do you know? I haven't read that, and I'm not sure why you are so confident in writing him off.

On the court, I would describe him as a more disciplined Adam Morrison

Except Stojakovic can shoot.

Whoever takes that contract is going to eat most of it.

True if, as you say, he's permanently injured, but I'm not aware that he is.