Kobe demands trade

[Chaplin]

Nobody. Wants. Shawn. Marion.

Where'd you come up with that gem of information?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Can anyone ever remember any NBA SUPER SUPER SUPERSTAR need a change of scenery worse than Kobe Bryant in NBA history?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Where'd you come up with that gem of information?

i don't know many teams that would want Marion at 17 million per year. Contending teams would have to give up too much to fit his salary and a rebuilding team has no use to take up that much cap space with a player with Shawn's half-court offensive liabilties.

 

[D-Dogg]

Where'd you come up with that gem of information?

Common sense. A max player who can't create his own shot, would be poor without Nash and is exposed on defense when it matters. Oh, and disappears in the playoffs with an inconsistency that makes Lamar Odom look like Tim Duncan. No thanks.

 

[Chaplin]

Common sense. A max player who can't create his own shot, would be poor without Nash and is exposed on defense when it matters. Oh, and disappears in the playoffs with an inconsistency that makes Lamar Odom look like Tim Duncan. No thanks.

Shawn Marion was at an all-star level before Steve Nash was around. And as much as he is hated around here, he didn't have nearly as bad a playoffs over the past 2 years as he used to have (which can partly be attributed to his aversion to contact after getting undercut by John Starks).

 

[Divide Et Impera]

I gotta agree with Donald on this one. Marion at $17M is a liability to PHX. Marion at $10M or less would be an absolute asset to PHX. Marion is contractually untradeable - as much as it pains me to say that since I have wanted his ass gone for 3 years now....

 

[Oolong]

Kobe

Why do you believe that we should not trade Amare for Kobe? Amare is a young stud, but you have to remember the microfracture surgery. Yes he has played great, but as with this injury, it always requires surgeries in the future. Kobe is still young in his prime, in a conference that is going to get so much better within the next 5 years. In 3 years Nash will be gone, and we have sen how we play without Nash. However, if Kobe is in the mix, with Marion, Bell and Diaw and whatever draft picks we get in the meantime, even in three years, we will be able to challenge teams in the west, like Portland. Kobe is the best player in the NBA and will be for at least another 6 years. Amare may be the top Power forward and even that is debateable, but he will never be the best player in the NBA. This is the only way that LA trades Kobe within their own division, as well.

 

[Chaplin]

Damn fickle Suns fans treat him like he's a leper. And that isn't deserved, however much you hate the guy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Shawn Marion was at an all-star level before Steve Nash was around.

All-Star level? I think that's a bit of an overstatement Chap. He had made one All-Star game at that point, right? And that was a while ago, where it looked like he could still get better - instead, his game plateaued at that moment and his contract just wouldn't be justifiable to really almost any other team, not to mention diminishing returns on a guy who gets buy solely on athleticism and is looking at 30 in a year.

 

[D-Dogg]

Damn fickle Suns fans treat him like he's a leper. And that isn't deserved, however much you hate the guy.

It's not him as much as it's his contract. Marion would be a great 8-9 mil a year guy, but that's too much cap space for a guy who leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's not him as much as it's his contract. Marion would be a great 8-9 mil a year guy, but that's too much cap space for a guy who leaves a lot to be desired.

exactly - even at 10 or 11 million Marion would be a GREAT piece at that price. He just makes WAYYYYY too much money to be what he is.

 

[slinslin]

Why keep people insisting on Marions contract. He is likely going to opt out next offseason and worst case you get 16M$ capspace or you resign him for 10M$ a year for 4-5 years and get 6M$ capspace out of it.

I can't see how any other team on the FA market could or would offer anything more..

 

[Cheesebeef]

Why are people keep insisting on Marions contract. He is likely going to opt out next offseason and worst case you get 16M$ capspace or you resign him for 10M$ a year for 4-5 years and get 6M$ capspace out of it.

I can't see how any other team on the FA market could or would offer anything more..

he might be able to opt-out next year (does anyone know if this is even true?) but why would he give up more money the next year when that's his HIGHEST salaried year, considering he will never see that kind of scratch for a year ever again.

 

[slinslin]

You are wrong. Marion has only 2 years left on his contract and can opt out after this season which he would surely do if he is smart, to sign his last big contract.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You are wrong. Marion has only 2 years left on his contract and can opt out after this season which he would surely do if he is smart, to sign his last big contract.

read my post again - and Marion ain't Kobe - he's gonna milk that MAX contract for everything it's worth. He'd be stupid not to.

 

[azirish]

In economics there is concept called "sunk costs". It doesn't matter what you paid for something. What is done is done. All that matters is whether you are going to keep it or sell it.

Marion and Diaw are cases of sunk costs. It doesn't matter if they are overpaid because the contract is signed. All that matters is if you are better off keeping them, trading them, or buying them out.

Yet somehow there is a continuing gripping about past mistakes. What's the point? If anything, it leads to perverse conclusions.

In another thread, I suggested that Jones is the weak link in the rotation. Somehow it was concluded that Diaw was the real problem because he's paid too much. He is paid too much, but IMHO overall his contribution is still greater than Jones because of his ball handling skills when Nash is out. The money has nothing to do with it.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

This really throws a wrench into things:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46306/20070530/kobe_has_$95_million_trade_kicker/

Kobe Has $9.5 Million Trade Kicker
30th May, 2007 - 5:21 pm
Los Angeles Times -
Kobe Bryant has a trade kicker in his contract that will add $9.5 million to his total contract value, a cost to be absorbed by any team that acquires him.

The money would be paid like a signing bonus and would be spread out over several seasons toward the new team's salary cap. The Lakers had to pay a similar fee to Lamar Odom when they acquired him from Miami three years ago, paying him about $8 million.

The Lakers, meanwhile, are waiting to hear from Bryant.

"We are aware of the media reports," Lakers owner Jerry Buss said in a statement. "However, Kobe has not told us directly that he wants to be traded. We have made it very clear that we are building our team around Kobe and that we intend for him to be a Laker his entire career. We will speak directly to Kobe and until we do that, we will not comment publicly about this."

But, not more than a couple of hours later, Bryant went on AM 570 and seemed to soften his demand to be traded. "I can only hope that they do something because I don't want to go no place else. I don't want to," het said. "I want to stay here. I hope they can do something."

Bryant said he had been soothed by a call from Lakers Coach Phil Jackson. The two discussed a passage from a story in Tuesday's editions of the Los Angeles Times that read, "Nevertheless, as a Lakers insider notes, it was Bryant's insistence on getting away from Shaquille O'Neal that got them in this mess."

From the outside, the conversation dripped with irony: The coach and his player, ex-adversaries a few years back, now propping each other up.

"He stayed optimistic and said you know what, 'I can't blame you for feeling this way,' " Bryant said. "I've just got to be optimistic. We want our players who are playing for this team to feel comfortable, to feel that they can trust the people that they're around. He said, 'Let us try to work that out, let us try to figure things out and I'm confident that we can do that.'

"That made me feel a lot better because Phil is a guy that I lean on a lot. I lean on him all season for clarity, I lean on him for, like, hope."

Despite Bryant's initial trade declaration, it will not be as easy as it appears for the Lakers to move him to another team.

Bryant will obviously waive his no-trade clause, but he has a trade kicker in his contract that will add $9.5 million to his total contract value, a cost to be absorbed by any team that acquires him. The money would be paid like a signing bonus and would be spread out over several seasons toward the new team's salary cap. The Lakers had to pay a similar fee to Lamar Odom when they acquired him from Miami three years ago, paying him about $8 million.

Bryant was acquired as a fresh-faced teenager in 1996 and the Lakers had the nucleus of a three-championship run when Shaquille O'Neal was signed a week later as a free agent. Together, at the best of times, O'Neal and Bryant were an unbeatable tandem. But, at their worst, they bickered incessantly and brought an end to what could have been a long-running dynasty.

The Lakers have not won a playoff series since O'Neal was traded in July 2004. Most recently, Bryant was seething after the Lakers were eliminated by the Suns, saying they had to make changes as quickly as possible.

 

[elindholm]

I agree with cheesebeef on this one. It's very unlikely that Marion will opt out. He can sign his "last big contract" in the summer of 2009 just as easily as he can do it in the summer of 2008.

 

[slinslin]

he might be able to opt-out next year (does anyone know if this is even true?) but why would he give up more money the next year when that's his HIGHEST salaried year, considering he will never see that kind of scratch for a year ever again.

Because he will be 31 when he can opt out, he can decide not to but that puts him at a risk of not getting as good of a contract when he is 32.

That's exactly what happens almost everytime a star can opt out. They do, you try to sign a new contract as soon as possible again instead of putting yourself into a situation where you could end up being injured and out of the league with no more contract.
If he can get 5 years/50M$ after next season he would be smart to opt out of the final 16M$ year because he might not get 5yrs/50M$ at 32 again.

 

[elindholm]

Kobe Bryant has a trade kicker in his contract that will add $9.5 million to his total contract value, a cost to be absorbed by any team that acquires him.

The money would be paid like a signing bonus and would be spread out over several seasons toward the new team's salary cap.

Actually this is incorrect. Per Coon's FAQ, the trade kicker is paid up front, like a signing bonus, and has no cap implications. It affects the bottom line of the new team, but not any of the cap calculations.

 

[elindholm]

If he can get 5 years/50M$ after next season he would be smart to opt out of the final 16M$ year because he might not get 5yrs/50M$ at 32 again.

No, but he'd need only 4 yrs/$38M to come out ahead.

 

[slinslin]

No, but he'd need only 4 yrs/$38M to come out ahead.

That would be a 4M$ loss for him then if he opted out earlier which gives him advantages of

1. Testing Free-Agency and chosing his new team.
2. Sign a new contract instead of risking injury in a contract year.

I think he will opt out..

 

[Cheesebeef]

No, but he'd need only 4 yrs/$38M to come out ahead.

exactly - I understand Slin that you dislike Shawn a lot, but all those feelings aren't going to make him make a decision detriment to his financial standing for the rest of his life.

 

[D-Dogg]

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop...y--Lakers-Must-Get-Front-Office-in-Order.html

Hands down the best and most knowledgeable writer on the Lakers. I was wondering where he was during all this...

 

[Oolong]

Marion is simply not desirable, cannot create his own shot, takes a lot of ill advised shots, has horrible shot mechanics, and his defense is still great but he will never be the top defender at his position. However, you mix him with Bell and Kobe and you have three excellent defenders. Combined with Nash being able to exert more energy on defense with Kobe in the offensive mix, I cannot see anyone beating that team in the next 3 years. You put the MVP (Nash) and the NBA's best player on the same team= championships. Kobe could still take a ton of shots because Marion doesn't need a certain amount of touches, Nash and Bell would get wide open threes and Diaw would average 7 or 8 assists a game with 2 or 3 alley oops to Bryant. It would be awesome!