Kobe or Swift/Barry +@s

[slinslin]

If we could offer Kobe a deal that he might consider we probably will have 12-14M$ caproom in the offseason.


So what would you rather do?

Option A)
Offer Kobe all the money because he is a MVP type player and draws fans?

Voshkul/Lampe/White
Amare/
Marion/Zarko
Kobe/JJ/Jacobsen
Barbosa/Milos/Eisley
+2 first round picks and possibly Harvey resigned


or

Option B)
Offer Brent Barry like 3yrs 16-18M$ Starting at roughly 5M$
Offer Stromile Swift like 5yrs 30-35M$ Starting at roughly 5M$
Offer someone like Vlade Divac/Dan Gadzuric/Chris Mihm like 1-3yr 2M-6M$? Starting at roughly 2M$

Because it would give us a deep bench and a clean rotation.

Voshkul/Lampe/White
Amare/Swift
Marion/Zarko
JJ/Barry
Barbosa/Milos/Eisley
+2 draft picks and a possible good veteran FA

Barry and Swift can probably be had for slightly above the MLE since very few teams can even offer that.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Deep benches don't win in the NBA. Superstars win championships.

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
Deep benches don't win in the NBA. Superstars win championships.

But We already have a superstar in the making, a star, and another star in the making. We need 1 more star/almost star at the C position.

 

[frdbtr]

I would rather vote option C). Neither.

I would rather see the suns sit on thier money and see what this young team can do. They will have draft picks and a young point guard from europe that is supposed to be good. It is more fun watching a young team over achieve then watching a Kobe let team under achieve because the chemestry isn't there. I still feel that in a couple of years this young team could be very good.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
If we could offer Kobe a deal that he might consider we probably will have 12-14M$ caproom in the offseason.


So what would you rather do?

Option A)
Offer Kobe all the money because he is a MVP type player and draws fans?

or

Option B)
Offer Brent Barry like 3yrs 16-18M$ Starting at roughly 5M$
Offer Stromile Swift like 5yrs 30-35M$ Starting at roughly 5M$
Offer someone like Vlade Divac/Dan Gadzuric/Chris Mihm like 1-3yr 2M-6M$? Starting at roughly 2M$

Because it would give us a deep bench and a clean rotation.

Barry and Swift can probably be had for slightly above the MLE since very few teams can even offer that.

Both plans require moving either White or Eisley, trading away the draft picks, and not signig Vujanic. Otherwise, there is not enough cap space.

Personally, I don't like either option. My concerns about Option A have been stated elsewhere. On B, I think the Suns can get more in the draft than Swift for less money. that Barry's health concerns make a 3 year deal a concern (I'd never go for more than 2), and I don't like Gadzuric or Mihm for more than two years either.

At worst, I would like to see the Suns have the ability to go after one more top player in free agency in 2006 when Eisley comes off contract. I'd hate to lose that with contracts to role players.

 

[slinslin]

JJ's extension will kick in in 2006, so there won't be nearly as much money available to the Suns unless they moved Eisley before which is almost impossible.

Swift is pretty damn good, he would be perfect backup on this team for Amare and small center because he can flat out run and jump with this team.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

We already have the backup to Amare in Zarko.

What you want in the NBA is an 8 man rotation. You want defined roles.

Only in video games do you try to make the deepest bench possible. Those teams don't work because their isn't enough ball.

Look at Portland, Dallas, ect...Lots of talent up and down the bench...but a bench doesn't matter much in the playoffs when your starters are playing 35+ minutes.

I am not saying I want Kobe on this team. Just if you give me the choice between adding a top 10 NBA player or adding 3 decent guys, I am going to take the top 10 guy every day.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
JJ's extension will kick in in 2006, so there won't be nearly as much money available to the Suns unless they moved Eisley before which is almost impossible.

Swift is pretty damn good, he would be perfect backup on this team for Amare and small center because he can flat out run and jump with this team.

On other threads, I have made my case for why I want Okafor. He is about as tall as Swift but is 25 pound heavier, is stronger, and is just as mobile. In any case, Swift is likely to receive a qualifying offer from the Grizzlies next year.

 

[devilalum]

The thing I think a lot of people forget is that the Suns won about 55 games the year before they got Barkley who proceeded to win the MVP.

Adding Kobe to the present Suns team might get the Suns to 50 wins but I don't think it makes the Suns instant contenders.

IMO the SUns need to let their young players develop for at least another year and see if their ready.

I would like to see the Suns trade Eisley and a pick to make some cap room for 2005?

Who's a free agent in 2005?

 

[scotsman13]

where is the choose for none of the above. swift is one of the laziest player in the nba (i work with a guy who is ike austins cousin). when he was with the giz ike said he had never run into a player like him, and that the team would make him to wake him up just to go to practise. in other words this isnt a player you want on your team unless his contract lets you stick a flaming brand up his @$$ at least once a day.

and as far as kobe i dont think he can bring that much to this team that jj isnt already and may really hurt the team chemisty.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by devilalum
The thing I think a lot of people forget is that the Suns won about 55 games the year before they got Barkley who proceeded to win the MVP.

Adding Kobe to the present Suns team might get the Suns to 50 wins but I don't think it makes the Suns instant contenders.

IMO the SUns need to let their young players develop for at least another year and see if their ready.

I would like to see the Suns trade Eisley and a pick to make some cap room for 2005?

Who's a free agent in 2005?

T-Mac. He has back problems and attitude problems (like resenting playing with a bunch of stiffs) and so on. Right now it looks like he will get moved before that, but he would still attract a lot of attention.

 

[devilalum]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
T-Mac. He has back problems and attitude problems (like resenting playing with a bunch of stiffs) and so on. Right now it looks like he will get moved before that, but he would still attract a lot of attention.

So maybe the Suns need to just build and get better for a couple of years.

Maybe in 2 years JJ and Amare will be our 2 superstars and all we'll need is the right role players.

A legit starting center
a couple of guys that shoot lights out
a super defender

Guys that fit.

 

[F-Dog]

Option B isn't worth considering IMO. There's no point in signing guys like Barry and Swift to cap-killer contracts unless they're the last pieces in the puzzle, and the Suns need more than an improved bench.

I also don't think the Suns will have any chance to get Okafor, either. If he keeps playing the way he is, he'll be the obvious #1 overall pick, so the Suns would have to get very, very lucky to have a chance to nab him.


I'm still tweaking my 'ideal Suns offseason', but right now it goes something like this:


--trade Eisley away for expiring contracts before the trade deadline, even if it costs both Knicks #1's and the Cleveland #1--creating about $16m in cap room this offseason

--Sign Mehmet Okur to an unfathomably large offer sheet, starting at $11m/year (not with maximum increases, though)

--Bring over Vujanic for 3 years, $3m/year

--Draft Iguodala with the team's #1 pick--$2m starting salary?

--Sign Vlade with the rest if he wants to come to Phx, or keep Donnell Harvey


2004-5 Suns lineup:

PG: Vujanic, Barbosa
SG: Joe J, Iguodala, Casey J
SF: Marion, Zarko
PF: Amare, Lampe, Donnell Harvey?
C: Okur, J. White, Voskuhl

With Harvey, that's 13 players. There's still room for a minimum-salary PG or shooter.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by devilalum
So maybe the Suns need to just build and get better for a couple of years.

Maybe in 2 years JJ and Amare will be our 2 superstars and all we'll need is the right role players.

A legit starting center
a couple of guys that shoot lights out
a super defender

Guys that fit.

I would like to have a better read on the current players before making a big jump. The Suns have some very young players, but they look like they could be very very good ones. If JJ keeps playing like he has since the trade, it would not make sense to kill $15 million plus on an SG.

I am sure that Lampe will be an offensive threat, but will he be able to play defense in the NBA? We won't know for a while. If he can't, then getting another center to play with him would be a priority.

Will Casey ever become the shooter the Suns thought they drafted? If not, then finding a backup who can shoot would be very important although Vujanic with Barosa may end up fitting the bill. We won't know for a while.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I stopped reading when you said offer Okur a contract starting at 11 million.



Why do most people have an obsession with using this cap space?? The reason SA is in such a good financial situation year after year is because they dont spend JUST to spend.

Also, like I have been saying, the suns could look to absorb a player in a trade. They could get some role players that way, and usually a pick if it is an unfavorable contract. There are just to many different options out there.

Unless the suns sign Kobe, I do not want them to use all of their cap space this summer.

 

[F-Dog]

Why do most people have an obsession with using this cap space?? The reason SA is in such a good financial situation year after year is because they dont spend JUST to spend.

I think the reason SA is in such great shape is that they own three of the biggest bargain contracts in the NBA--Duncan's, Ginobili's, and Tony Parker's. When you're a championship-caliber team and your three best players make $15 million combined, there's plenty of room left to sign your role players to mid-level contracts, chase superstars and fool around with team option years.


As far as I can see, the Suns have one serious need for the immediate future--a starting center. If they can't find a good one, what's the point in having cap space in the first place?

It's not as though there are going to be any centers better than Okur in the FA market in 2005...

 

[slinslin]

Okur isn't even worth 6M$ per season right now. Much less a contract starting at 11. That's hilarious.


Cap killer contracts?

Barry for 3 years at an average of 5M$ per season is hardly a cap killer or a bad contract.

Swift lazy? Maybe in his earlies years, but look at his body he can't be lazy with such a ripped body. Noway is Okafor anywhere close to that athleticism and not stronger either.

What are you going by? By his weight as a rookie or what?

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
Okur isn't even worth 6M$ per season right now. Much less a contract starting at 11. That's hilarious.


Cap killer contracts?

Barry for 3 years at an average of 5M$ per season is hardly a cap killer or a bad contract.

Swift lazy? Maybe in his earlies years, but look at his body he can't be lazy with such a ripped body. Noway is Okafor anywhere close to that athleticism and not stronger either.

What are you going by? By his weight as a rookie or what?

1. I am not interested in Okur. His strength is mostly offense and I think that Lampe will turn out to be a much bigger offensive threat.

2. I have been he one pushing for B. Barry, but not for a three year contract. He is 32 years old and has had some injuries.

3. Swift is playing well this year, but the Grizzlies have a team option. As for his size, NBA.com lists Swift at 6'9" and 230. HoopsHype lists him at 6'9" 225.

 

[slinslin]

I am pretty damn sure that the Grizz don't have a team option.

Swift will be FA just like Martin and Richardson. The only question is wether Jerry West would match or not.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by F-Dog


--Sign Mehmet Okur to an unfathomably large offer sheet, starting at $11m/year (not with maximum increases, though)

What the hell??

Are you insane?

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
I am pretty damn sure that the Grizz don't have a team option.

Swift will be FA just like Martin and Richardson. The only question is wether Jerry West would match or not.

HoopsHype has him at a "qualifying offer" status for next year.

HoopsHype

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by F-Dog
I think the reason SA is in such great shape is that they own three of the biggest bargain contracts in the NBA--Duncan's, Ginobili's, and Tony Parker's. When you're a championship-caliber team and your three best players make $15 million combined, there's plenty of room left to sign your role players to mid-level contracts, chase superstars and fool around with team option years.


As far as I can see, the Suns have one serious need for the immediate future--a starting center. If they can't find a good one, what's the point in having cap space in the first place?

It's not as though there are going to be any centers better than Okur in the FA market in 2005...

That has to do with part of it, however the spurs have been in a good financial situation and a very competitive team for the past 5 years I believe. Two of those contracts are only "bargain" contracts because they are still on the rookie pay scale. Almost every team in the league can claim a bargain contract that way. Want a real "bargain" look at Michael Redd making 3 mil a year, without increases till 2006 I believe.


Anyways, Okur is not a center we would need. He has no defensive game (relies on Wallace as George pointed out several times) and doesn't have the body to guard to the larger centers any better than people on our current roster. Amare is the offensive player in the post, now and for the future. Why the hell would the suns offer a max contract to a player that doesn't fit, let alone not warrant it.

If you really want to go that route, why not just trade for Illguaskas????

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
HoopsHype has him at a "qualifying offer" status for next year.

HoopsHype

Yeah and isn't that the same thing as RFA?

It is definately not a team option.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
Yeah and isn't that the same thing as RFA?

It is definately not a team option.

You're right it isn't, but it sets a minimum for free agency offers. In this case, $5.99 million.

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by slinslin
Okur isn't even worth 6M$ per season right now. Much less a contract starting at 11. That's hilarious.

Originally posted by George O'Brien
I am not interested in Okur. His strength is mostly offense and I think that Lampe will turn out to be a much bigger offensive threat.

Originally posted by Chaplin
What the hell??

Are you insane?

LOL.

Since I'm taking my lumps right now, I guess I should keep track of this thread. Maybe one of you will change your mind a couple of years from now or something.


Okur is 24. He can play center in the NBA, score, rebound, and block shots. In Europe, he's turning into a dominating force for his national team.

Detroit has two other superstar big men and scout foreign bigs more thoroughly than any other team in the league, so center isn't nearly as much of a need position for them as it is for Phoenix. If you offered the Pistons the chance to re-sign Okur starting at $6.5m/yr, they would do so instantly and be grateful for the opportunity.


As elindholm would be happy to tell you, teams that don't have Michael Jordan don't win championships without at least a passable (top-10) center. The Suns don't have one of those right now, and they're not going to have one for a few years to come, at the very least.


Right now, I think Phoenix is going to look back on next summer and wish they'd gone harder after Okur while they had the chance. I hope I'm wrong, needless to say...