IF we get Kobe

[thegrahamcrackr]

name one star who loved the city he played in but didn't like the people he had to deal with. are you unable to see at all the possibility that this whole thing was a power play on his part? would you not admit that there is at least a possibility (imo a probability) that this whole thing happened because he wanted everything on his terms, and the only way he'd get it is if he threatened to leave?

all i'm saying is that if i'm kobe bryant, i'm staying in LA.

I wasn't aware he loved LA. In fact, I got the impression he didn't really enjoy it. From all reports, Kobe has been an intravert. He never went out with his teammates at home or on the road to clubs and the like. He chooses to live in Newport instead of LA (well I would to, but still). Kobe has enjoyed the fans, but not the CONSTANT media bashing.

From what I understand, there is an unwritten rule in LA media. If it goes right, Shaq is the man. If it goes wrong, Kobe messed up.

 

[playstation]

also, can i have a link to these supposed rumors that kobe will divorce his wife once his trial is over? so far, i've heard people say it was on talk radio. well, thats great, however gambo is an example of talk radio, and therefore i will need to see it in print before i'd give it any credence.

btw, i have heard vanessa WILLIAMS is looking to divorce rick fox

 

[SweetD]

Kobe took a huge risk on not signing the extension.

He had just come off of shoulder surgey, he had a rape trial over his head. If that didn't scare him into locking up for the long term, I highly doubt the possibility of a career ending injury would.

Not sure I would agree. The Lakers are really the only onese who know the extent of the injury and may have low balled him becouse of it. As for the trial I think some teams have stepped out of the game, but there are enough teams willing to take the risk for it to be advantage, and if he signs with the Lakers they will match or beat the top offer.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

also, can i have a link to these supposed rumors that kobe will divorce his wife once his trial is over? so far, i've heard people say it was on talk radio. well, thats great, however gambo is an example of talk radio, and therefore i will need to see it in print before i'd give it any credence.

btw, i have heard vanessa WILLIAMS is looking to divorce rick fox

Gambo might be a moron, but somehow he usually nails many rumors before any other local media. It is kind of scary actually.

IMO, the supposed divorce is irrelevent.

 

[slinslin]

Also Kobe wants to be like Jordan.

Kobe = Jordan
Marion = Poor mans Pippen
Amare = Better than anything the Bulls ever had
Johnson = Better version of Harper
Lampe = Better than Longley
Zarko = Next Kukoc
Jacobsen = Paxson
( Plus Barbosa, Dice, Voshkul instead of like Grant, Wenningson?, Armstrong)

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Not sure I would agree. The Lakers are really the only onese who know the extent of the injury and may have low balled him becouse of it. As for the trial I think some teams have stepped out of the game, but there are enough teams willing to take the risk for it to be advantage, and if he signs with the Lakers they will match or beat the top offer.

According the Kupchak, and every media outlet, the Lakers have had the max possible extension on the table for at least a year now. They offered it the first day possible, and have never withdrawn it. If they had, there definitely would have been some word on it.


No team will avoid Kobe on the lone basis of the trial, not even the Nuggets.

If he signs with the Lakers, it will be for the 7 year, 140 million max. Not a penny less.

 

[playstation]

ok, i've played devil's advocate long enough, i want to hear from all those who've spoke against me.

if all you've said is true, then where is the doubt at all? we should all be celebrating right now because obviously kobe bryant will be coming here, right? what do you think are the roadblocks, because obviously you think everything i've stated is a bunch of crap.

remember, rumors had it for months that tmac wanted SO BADLY to come to phoenix. then rumors had it tmac called personally and said he would not play for phoenix. rumors are just that, rumors. take off your purple and orange sunglasses and look at the situation objectively, and you tell me whats happening

 

[slinslin]

ok, i've played devil's advocate long enough, i want to hear from all those who've spoke against me.

if all you've said is true, then where is the doubt at all? we should all be celebrating right now because obviously kobe bryant will be coming here, right? what do you think are the roadblocks, because obviously you think everything i've stated is a bunch of crap.

remember, rumors had it for months that tmac wanted SO BADLY to come to phoenix. then rumors had it tmac called personally and said he would not play for phoenix. rumors are just that, rumors. take off your purple and orange sunglasses and look at the situation objectively, and you tell me whats happening

You were acting and talking like there is no chance Kobe would leave the Lakers...

I think there is as good of a chance that he leaves.

If Colangelo pulls the right tricks and stuff he should have a very good chance to recruit Kobe.

 

[playstation]

graham - OF COURSE GAMBO IS GOING TO BE RIGHT! this is what pisses me off about his so much, and why he is a douchebag. in january he trumpets tmac and kobe coming here, the following month he says its either kobe or tmac, then he says tmac definitly wants to be here, then he says houston has the inside track, last week he says 'my sources tell me the houston deal is done' and follows it up with an 'i told you so' because he said it would happen two days prior. WELL OF COURSE HE'S RIGHT! if i throw EVERY SINGLE POSSIBILITY out there, one of them has GOT to be right! he's such a loser

 

[playstation]

"if colangelo pulls the right tricks and stuff"

please help me understand what that means. i think the possibility of him coming here is less than 5%. pulling the right tricks and stuff means nothing to me, you've got to explain further

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I never heard rumors that TMAC was begging to come here. I heard speculation on the board that this would be an ideal place for him, which I agree with, but nothing was ever printed with such a concrete tone.


I was more talking about Gambo with last years draft, this years draft ect. He definitely has at least 1 source inside the team that throws him a couple of bones. The rest is just made up inside his little head.


I have said all along that the chances that he signs with the Lakers is greater, but I also say the only other place he would sign is the Suns.

Of the reasons he would stay:

-If Shaq is actually traded, Kobe becomes the unquestioned leader for the rest of his contract. He would start out that way in Phx, but he sees Amare's talent as much as everyone else.

-Kobe may not want to move. If he is seriously trying to patch things with his wife, he may opt to stay since that is her preference.

-He is already very familiar with the Lakers. Change can be hard, and if it isn't necessary, why do it.

-The extra money. I do not think it will be a deciding factor, but writing it off as nothing is ignorant.


Reasons he would leave:

- A fresh start, on a team that is ready to be taken to the next level.

- A chance to prove he can lead his own team, without Shaq.

- A heavily divided Laker team. As many rumors as there are about the Lakers breaking up, many people will remain next season. Most of their players are just unmoveable assets. Even with Shaq gone, there would be several teammates that still dislike Kobe.

- Fisher and Malone will most likely not return. Those two were Kobe's largest allies in the locker room. Malone was said to be a sort of mentor to Kobe. Fisher always stuck up for Kobe.

- A chance to rid himself of the LA media.


There are more arguements for both sides, but this is all I can think of at the moment.

40% Suns, 60% Lakers at this point.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I wasn't aware he loved LA. In fact, I got the impression he didn't really enjoy it. From all reports, Kobe has been an intravert. He never went out with his teammates at home or on the road to clubs and the like. He chooses to live in Newport instead of LA (well I would to, but still). Kobe has enjoyed the fans, but not the CONSTANT media bashing.

From what I understand, there is an unwritten rule in LA media. If it goes right, Shaq is the man. If it goes wrong, Kobe messed up.

i live in newport (on the peninsula) and would rather live in la.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

"if colangelo pulls the right tricks and stuff"

please help me understand what that means. i think the possibility of him coming here is less than 5%. pulling the right tricks and stuff means nothing to me, you've got to explain further

easy, didn't you know that he got tom chambers to sign with the suns based solely on jc's card tricks? ainge was a more difficult sell. he had to pull out the disappearing body and the oreos had to be double-STUFF. worked like a charm.

 

[playstation]

whoa whoa whoa... i know you didn't say nothin about my double-stuf

 

[coloradosun]

Do you have any concept of how the CBA works? Honest question, since most things I have read in your posts have zero possibility of happening.

I'll admit I jumped the gun on the lineup, I usually go to realgm.com and do a trade checker.

I just added a few rumors a sliced a lineup together but I do believe if Shaq goes anywhere its to Dallas. If Shaq does move then Dampier could be swayed to go to LA. Kenyon Martin to me is a guy that would love the bright lights of LA and the Lakers would jump on that in a minute. There was a rumor in Denver that he was offered a sign and trade for Nene and Kiki turned it down, he wants to offer a contract directly to Kenyon which would be less.

Denver could be a trading partner because they are below the cap and send some draft picks in the deal. If LA does get involved they would not have this same advantage.

Let me go to realgm.com a put together a deal that makes sense. I'll get back to you.

 

[coloradosun]

you say that the difference in money is "only" 10-15 million dollars (of course you conveniently forget the 7th guaranteed year which will be another $20M, and anytime you walk away from guaranteed money, you're taking a risk). the suns can offer 6yrs/102M, lakers: 7yrs/136M, i've done the math, i know that 34M of guaranteed money is nothing to sneeze at, even if you're kobe bryant.


here's the facts as i see them, kobe did not want to play for shaq and phil. he realized the best way to make them leave was to leverage the threat of his leaving, so he did, and they left. assuming shaq is gone, kobe used his power perfectly, and signs right back with the lakers. very shrewd if you ask me, in fact he had me going a bit there. he hasn't talked about the suns any more than any other organization that he has been asked about (in another ploy to keep his options open, thus making the lakers think he may actually leave if his terms aren't met)

This is dead on right, both the financial side and also on the strategic side.

 

[coloradosun]

Why should Kobe settle to play with some players, that would be the case if he changes teams. If he becomes the man in LA he could actually could become a player/gm and determine which players he wants to make deals for.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Why should Kobe settle to play with some players, that would be the case if he changes teams. If he becomes the man in LA he could actually could become a player/gm and determine which players he wants to make deals for.

b/c if he resigns a ridiculous contract it will strap the team for years. the lakers would be a bit cap-strapped to just go out spending willy-nilly on fa's that kobe wants. whereas in phx he has an already-made cast of talented players just waiting for the top dog to put 'em over the top.

 

[elindholm]

Why should Kobe settle to play with some players, that would be the case if he changes teams. If he becomes the man in LA he could actually could become a player/gm and determine which players he wants to make deals for.

Why do you assume that Bryant's priorities are identical to yours? Are there other ways in which you and he are very similar?

I agree that he wanted Jackson out and probably O'Neal as well, but I haven't seen any indication that he wants GM responsibilities. He joins all of us in seeing how well Jordan's executive stint went.

 

[F-Dog]

I agree that he wanted Jackson out and probably O'Neal as well, but I haven't seen any indication that he wants GM responsibilities. He joins all of us in seeing how well Jordan's executive stint went.

So let me get this straight: Kobe wants to choose a new coach and trade away the team's other superstar, but he's also a shy, retiring fellow who doesn't want to have anything to do with picking which players will be traded to the Lakers to be his teammates.

Then, having decided that the package the Lakers got in return for Shaq isn't good enough, he signs with the Suns instead, presumably because their GM is more competent than Mitch Kupchak. From that point on, though, Kobe won't want any say in the Suns' personnel moves--unless he finds he can't get along with one of the players or coaches, I suppose.


I guess this is as good a spot as any for a 'confidential memo' I found on another board (based on this, I'm afraid that Amare might not be as attractive a teammate as Elton Brand for His Airness):

Sometime in August, 2004

Dear Mr. Buss,

I look forward to a long and preprosterous relationship with you in my new role as GM of the Lakers. Thank you for all of your kindness during my recent trial, my bad, trials.

But more importantly thank you for agreeing to get Shaq's sorry fat self (SSFS) off my team.

In regards to your question of what types of co-workers I would want to replace SFFS I have a few very strong opinions.

1)A point guard who can pass me the ball so I can get my shots. It would be good if he can occasionally make a shot himself in case I dribble it off my leg or something and the 24 second clock is running out.

But most importantly he needs to be able to pass me the ball so I can get my shots. And not take many shots so I can get at least 25 shots per game.

2)A small forward that can guard people. And makes steals so I can get back down court and get my shots. Someone like Pippen was for MJ.

3)A power forward who can rebound and pass. Especially offensive rebound. So on those rare occasions when I miss my shot he can throw it back to me for another shot. Someone like Rodman was for MJ. But without the street cred and good looking girls friends and books and stuff. He also needs to be able to pass without turning it over. Because when we turn it over that's one less shot for me.

4)A center who draws a double team even though he never takes a shot. So he can then pass it to me so I can get my shots. SFFS had the first part down. But he struggled with the second part.

I don't have a good example for this guy. But our scouts are good. I'll bet there's one somewhere in China. A guy like Yao. Who doesn't take so many shots. PPod may be the guy.

5) Players who are very good but have no personality that gets in the way. And who won't steal any of my endorsements and props.

In regards to some of your trade proposals-

Dirk Nowitzki- Sorry, but he takes too many shots. And have you ever looked at his offensive rebound numbers. A dead man gets more. And he can't defend like Pippen. Plus he's got a personality. So he would take some of my shots, wouldn't make any steals to get me shots and wouldn't get my misses so he could throw it back to me for more shots.

IE, he could actually cause me to get LESS shots.

Plus he'd be a blonde white guy in LA who has a personality. Not only less shots but less props.

I can't believe you brought that stuff in here.


Steve Nash- This is more interesting. He doesn't turn it over much so more shots for me. He's a good passer. And even though he is a good shooter he's used to not getting his shots because he played with Finley and Dirk. Plus he's old and wears down in the playoffs when everyone really cares anyway. So he would take less of the spotlight off me.
But he has a lot of personality and that hair would make him real popular out here.

Nash I would consider, though, if he agrees to get a haircut and look more like those dorky pictures of him when he first came in the league.


Antoine Walker- All I can say is "Say What?" This guy said the only reason he shoots so many threes is because they don't have fours. He can pass ok and get rebounds but he'd takes way too many of my shots.

I know you like Walker because he only has one year left on his contract so we could go get somebody like Rodman or Pippen later. But you never know when you might get hit by a car or go to jail or something, right? Life is too short to waste a year with someone who keeps me from getting my shots. If you promise that Rudy T. will keep him on IR all year I might consider it.

Not on the bench, though, because I couldn't take looking at his sour beer face all season.


Doug Christie- This guy I like. He steals the ball a lot like Pippen. Ugly as sin and has a rep of being under his wife's thumb, so that's a big plus. Still takes way too many shots for my taste, but I think I could work with him. As long as there's something in his contract to keep his sorry self wife out of the arena. And no hand signals.


Chris Webber- A little too good looking for my taste. But he has a bad rep and doesn't get many endorsements. A big plus.

And the boy can pass. And he draws the double team. But more importantly he's hurt and not as good as he used to be so he won't take as many shots.

But, unfortunately, his knee might keep him from getting as many boards. Which means less shots for me.

Guess you have to compromise sometimes.


Bobby Jackson-Kinda cute so he might get some of my endorsements and props. But he passes pretty good and doesn't turn it over much. Would prefer someone who gets more steals so I can get my shots, though. But he can't wear the headband.

Pablo Podvozorngking or PPod as you call him- A near ideal center. Looks like Lurch, can't shoot, as big as Shaq but can't shoot. Too young to draw the double team, but in a year or two he could be the guy I mentioned earlier that our scouts need to find. A big man who draws a double team, can rebound my misses and doesn't shoot. Would definitely like to have him here.

Lurch didn't get any endorsements did he?

I think I have outlined my criteria pretty clearly here. Look forward to seeing what sort of packages you can put together that meet my specs.

And thanks again for getting SSFS off my team.

Regards,

GM Kobe

 

[elindholm]

So let me get this straight: Kobe wants to choose a new coach and trade away the team's other superstar, but he's also a shy, retiring fellow who doesn't want to have anything to do with picking which players will be traded to the Lakers to be his teammates.

It's not so improbable as you make it sound. "I don't care how you do it, just get them out of here." It's fairly well documented among rumor-mongers (I know, contradiction in terms) that Kidd forced out both Van Horn and Scott in New Jersey; yet no one ascribes to him a hunger to run the team from the top down.

Then, having decided that the package the Lakers got in return for Shaq isn't good enough, he signs with the Suns instead, presumably because their GM is more competent than Mitch Kupchak.

At this point, that seems plausible. I haven't been impressed with Kupchak. It's not like he negotiated the Malone and Payton signings; his only noteworthy move has been to overpay Devean George.

From that point on, though, Kobe won't want any say in the Suns' personnel moves--unless he finds he can't get along with one of the players or coaches, I suppose.

Surely you allow that O'Neal and Jackson represent extreme examples along the spectrum of "difficult to work with."

 

[F-Dog]

It's not so improbable as you make it sound. "I don't care how you do it, just get them out of here." It's fairly well documented among rumor-mongers (I know, contradiction in terms) that Kidd forced out both Van Horn and Scott in New Jersey; yet no one ascribes to him a hunger to run the team from the top down.

Didn't Kidd also demand that the Nets sign Alonzo Mourning, as well? And didn't he think he should have input into the team's decision to move to Brooklyn?

At this point, that seems plausible. I haven't been impressed with Kupchak. It's not like he negotiated the Malone and Payton signings; his only noteworthy move has been to overpay Devean George.

And with the winning streak the Suns' management has been riding over the last year or so, even an outsider like Kobe can easily see that Kerr & BC are much better than that, right?

Surely you allow that O'Neal and Jackson represent extreme examples along the spectrum of "difficult to work with."

Has Jackson ever had trouble working with a player besides Kobe? Even Pippen seemed to prefer having him around.

Shaq, I'll give you.

 

[elindholm]

Didn't Kidd also demand that the Nets sign Alonzo Mourning, as well? And didn't he think he should have input into the team's decision to move to Brooklyn?

Hmm, I might have to give you those. But hasn't he also (I think?) made statements in favor of retaining Martin, which the Nets seem prepared not to do? I guess the question is whether someone has real control, or if he just likes to shoot his mouth off.

And with the winning streak the Suns' management has been riding over the last year or so, even an outsider like Kobe can easily see that Kerr & BC are much better than that, right?

Not at all. I just think the "GM quality" issue is probably a wash, since there isn't much information either way. Charitably, we could say that Colangelo put himself in a position to sign Bryant, and if Bryant ends up signing, then that ends up as a feather in Colangelo’s cap. In other words, Bryant has some control over how good a GM Colangelo has been. Furthermore, if by slashing costs, the Colangelos facilitated the sale of the team to a group willing to pay Bryant a super-max deal, that further management’s resume.

Has Jackson ever had trouble working with a player besides Kobe?

Probably not, but then he's never been so hell-bent on controlling a star before. Jordan and Rodman consistently got to play by different rules from their teammates, missing practices and "doing their own thing" both on and off the court.

So I guess what it boils down to is who you think is more responsible for the Jackson-Bryant feud. I definitely think it's Jackson, but if you think it's Bryant, then your position makes good sense.