Kobe pours in 81!

[Chaplin]

Mavs players still very bitter that Kobe bitchslapped them in 3 quarters It seems.

LOL, that's what I was thinking. Like Keith Van Horn has any place to talk, regardless of whether he was right!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

The greatest indicator.....

I have heard many times from players and analysts saying the same thing. They don't all like him but there is no doubt among players who is the most dominant perimeter (and possibly of any position) player in the NBA according to fellow players.....

KB8

Like i said, quit hating and just appreciate greatness. We are all getting on him now but it will take the Lakers a couple years to add the requisite players to build a team around Bryant. And he has three rings....

And this is my favorite argument. Well thats because of Shaq....well how many rings does Shaq have w/o Kobe? And he has had the luxury of All NBA players like Penny and Wade on his side, unlike the Mamba.....They both did it TOGETHER, not because of either one singularly....Kobe needs to get more credit for that...

Once Bynum develops and they add a top notch PG or 3, it says here he will get his ring before the much beloved Shaq....

And i hope he does, because i think he is all time and i think it will take a few more years before NBA fans develop perspective, forget all the Shaq and Colorado BS, and realize this is the best player the L has seen since MJ. Bar none......

 

[Chaplin]

I'm trying to figure out why you have this superiority complex, AF. Not really understanding it--you appear to be calling out people for something that hasn't really happened. I've never invalidated Kobe's 3 rings. I certainly don't think he would have them if Shaq was on the team, however. Keep in mind that I also don't think Shaq would have those rings if Kobe Bryant wasn't on the team, either.

So these rants about how nobody gives him credit for being a great player just don't hold any water.

 

[Renz]

Gotta admit it was a great game by kobe. Although as a suns fan can't root for the guy too hard and as a person he obviously rubs people the wrong way. If I were a toronto fan I would be furious that they just let him keep going at some point I am HARD fouling him to send a message, I would not let the guy just keep going at will. Even if someone were to be ejected for a flagrant I would have still not want to be the team on the losing end of history FOUL HIM HARD!!!!!!!! If he were going off on the suns you can bet your ass Raja or Kurt are gonna knock him on his ass a few times, not just gonna let him go to the rim at will.

Great quote by Jalen Rose:

The Raptors' pride was bruised by Bryant's big game, but "you've got to challenge your anger," Rose said. "The anger would be go flagrant-foul him, go hurt him, go try to break his arm. But, is that the class move? Is that really what sports is all about?

"And they were losing the game, he's having a heck of a game and then all of a sudden they start being up big. So, the last two or three minutes, I mean, what, should you go try to clothesline the guy? I mean, did I think about it? Yeah, I thought about it. But that would be ... a bad sport and a hater. (We had to) suck it up and take it like men."

 

[elindholm]

I guess everyone has forgotten already that the Suns left Stoudemire out to score 50 when the game had been decided for several minutes.

 

[golfcardfan]

Jalen must be used to gettin beat up on. Thats absolute garbage towards the end of the game they were just letting Kobe go untouched for dunks and stuff. All I am saying if a guy is going to score the second most points in history against MY team I would damn sure make it as hard for him as possible. Its like the last 5 mins of the game everyone on the floor was just standing around watching Kobe it was absurd.

 

[jibikao]

LOL, that's what I was thinking. Like Keith Van Horn has any place to talk, regardless of whether he was right!

I am just glad we didn't let Kobe score +40 on us. +37 seems low for him now. lol

Hell, the nba.com headline says T-MAC dropped 41pts on Bucks (Melo scored 37)... and then the next headline, Kobe dropped 81pts. LOL That 41 seems soooooooooo little when in fact, it's a great performance.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I'm trying to figure out why you have this superiority complex, AF. Not really understanding it--you appear to be calling out people for something that hasn't really happened. I've never invalidated Kobe's 3 rings. I certainly don't think he would have them if Shaq was on the team, however. Keep in mind that I also don't think Shaq would have those rings if Kobe Bryant wasn't on the team, either.

So these rants about how nobody gives him credit for being a great player just don't hold any water.

Huh?

Taking things a little personal in this thread Chap....if im calling you out specifically, i will use your name...

I was just stating the second part to my "Why Kobe is the best player in the NBA" Anthology....

It was just a general post....I was speaking to all those every where who are know as "Kobe-Haters" (you know who you are... ) who bash on him undesevedly. I actually thought your posts were okay because you were saying his style of play with this team does not turn into championships...I agree with that to an extent, but i feel once he gets better players around him he will trust them and adjust his game accordingly.

The point i was trying to make was that I dont understand why guys like T-Mac and Nowitzki get really nothing but plaudits. But Kobe, the far superior player to both, plus way more of an established as well as on court winner, constantly gets degraded....

 

[Chaplin]

Huh?

Taking things a little personal in this thread Chap....if im calling you out specifically, i will use your name...

I was just stating the second part to my "Why Kobe is the best player in the NBA" Anthology....

It was just a general post....I was speaking to all those every where who are know as "Kobe-Haters" (you know who you are... ) who bash on him undesevedly. I actually thought your posts were okay because you were saying his style of play with this team does not turn into championships...I agree with that to an extent, but i feel once he gets better players around him he will trust them and adjust his game accordingly.

The point i was trying to make was that I dont understand why guys like T-Mac and Nowitzki get really nothing but plaudits. But Kobe, the far superior player to both, plus way more of an established as well as on court winner, constantly gets degraded....

First of all, I never said you called me out specifically. Like you said, you made a general comment about the people that have been posting on this thread. If it was directed towards the MEDIA, not the board, then you need to reword your post.

As for why Kobe gets degraded more... I'm not sure what you're saying, because outside of fan message boards, Kobe gets nothing but praise from the media outlets. To answer your question about Dirk and TMac, they don't get "degraded" like you say simply because they didn't have legal problems like Kobe. To me, that's common sense. Whether you've forgotten that or not, fans have long memories, especially fans of teams that don't especially like the Lakers very much. Why would he not deserve getting "bashed" as you put it? He's not God, he's a basketball player for chrissakes. He's a damn good basketball player, but he's not perfect.

Heck, as Brian in Mesa, even some Laker fans don't like the guy.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

First of all, I never said you called me out specifically. Like you said, you made a general comment about the people that have been posting on this thread. If it was directed towards the MEDIA, not the board, then you need to reword your post.

As for why Kobe gets degraded more... I'm not sure what you're saying, because outside of fan message boards, Kobe gets nothing but praise from the media outlets. To answer your question about Dirk and TMac, they don't get "degraded" like you say simply because they didn't have legal problems like Kobe. To me, that's common sense. Whether you've forgotten that or not, fans have long memories, especially fans of teams that don't especially like the Lakers very much. Why would he not deserve getting "bashed" as you put it? He's not God, he's a basketball player for chrissakes. He's a damn good basketball player, but he's not perfect.

Heck, as Brian in Mesa, even some Laker fans don't like the guy.

No one knows what happend in that hotel room in Eagle and the charges were dropped. So while i understand perception is reality, all we can say w/o doubt is that he cheated on his wife. Yeah so did Magic, MJ and every NBA player not named Casey Jacobson or AC Green. I cant say for sure that the accuser was only out to get money as that would be unfair, but you cant say that she definitly wasn't. In fact the events playing out the way they did would lend logically to one to think that she was in fact being less than honest. But thats neither here nor there. This was not like OJ where it seemed he got away because of money. The girl dropped the charges and according to the law, his name has been cleared. So why are we allowed to be judge, jury and executioner when we have no idea and the legal system worked itself out?

As for the other reason people hate Kobe: Well thats because they think he broke up the Lakers. In fact that was Jerry Buss and his not wanting to pay out the money for an old Shaq. And that seems to have been the right decision seeing whats happening down in Miami. Getting rid of Jackson was a bad idea, but Buss made up for that. And now it seems that PJAX and Kobe are floatign along harmoniously. I feel that Shaq had a much bigger role in all the infighting and discord (read the Phil Jackson book and you might agree) and with him now gone, Lakers are back on an upswing. It will take time, but i love the coach and i love the two guard and they can build from there.

The people who hate Kobe that are Laker fans are the people who blame him for Shaq leaving. They will convert back to "Kobe guys"with a couple more 60 point games and Miami being unable to make it to the Finals for the second consecutive year.

So my point is that all this of down grading on Kobe is being negligent of the facts. Is Kobe narcissistic, immature and self absorbed? I think those are all qualities he has. But those flaws also are part of his greatness as he wants to win more than 99% of the players in the NBA, he is maniacally is driven and motivated, and wants to prove he is the greates player ever to live. He might not make it to that height, but any less confidence in himself would only lead to that being a certainty.

I could care less about Kobe the man (as should all of us. none of us know these players intimately. You are getting the image, not the man. so as long as they play well within the lines and help their team win, thats all that should matter) and personally I dont even care about Kobe the teammate as he is a Laker not a Sun. So all im saying is cant we just appreciate what he does bring to the table and give him credit for being the best player in the league today?

 

[golfcardfan]

Do you really think he is the best player in the league today? I don't I would take LeBron in a second over Kobe no question!! How many points you think LeBron could go off for if he shot the ball as much as Kobe? Not to mention as a whole LeBrons game involves much more than just being a shooter, he is a complete player. Shoot I think if T-mac was hot and shot almost 50 he could score 81 if everyone just stood around and watched him go off. If they were playing someone besides toronto like say Detroit you think they would have just let him take all those shots without some punishment? Kobe is a great one of the top 5 in the league today but lets not get carried away with his greatness just yet!

 

[Chaplin]

And again, you are throwing accusations around that are baseless. Before you get all up in arms, you are accusing us of not respecting him as, in your opinion, the best player in the game.

He's definitely top 3, perhaps the best, no question. But being a top player is more than just scoring 81 points in a game. He's an awesome player, but I'd take Tim Duncan over him for obvious reasons. Of course, that's my opinion, and it shows bad form to call out people for not agreeing with your opinion that Kobe is the best and shouldn't be criticized.

 

[golfcardfan]

Agree Chaplin Duncan and LeBron I would take over Kobe in a heartbeat!

 

[Chaplin]

I could care less about Kobe the man (as should all of us. none of us know these players intimately. You are getting the image, not the man. so as long as they play well within the lines and help their team win, thats all that should matter)

And there's the problem. Obviously, basketball minds such as Jerry Colangelo and Donnie Walsh wouldn't agree with that. Especially Colangelo, who has experience in these sorts of matters.

and personally I dont even care about Kobe the teammate as he is a Laker not a Sun.

Then why are you posting on this thread? The big question is his value as a teammate--at least that's what D-Dogg and I have been discussing--and it's been a terrific discussion so far.

 

[elindholm]

James is great, and if you're choosing a wing to build a team around for the future, he's your guy. But right now, Bryant is a better player.

 

[D-Dogg]

And there's the problem. Obviously, basketball minds such as Jerry Colangelo and Donnie Walsh wouldn't agree with that. Especially Colangelo, who has experience in these sorts of matters.

Colangelo has no problem with Kobe on the Olympic team...and frankly, I can't wait to see Kobe, LeBron, Howard and anyone else who decides to play. I think the USA is going to destroy the world this time around. Kobe's driven, LeBron is damn near as talented as him, and it's going to be amazing to watch.

 

[Chaplin]

Colangelo has no problem with Kobe on the Olympic team...and frankly, I can't wait to see Kobe, LeBron, Howard and anyone else who decides to play. I think the USA is going to destroy the world this time around. Kobe's driven, LeBron is damn near as talented as him, and it's going to be amazing to watch.

Colangelo isn't making money from the Olympic team, and let's face it, I've said and will continue to say that Kobe is an amazing player and his presence on the team will help. I am leary about how he will play with the other stars on the team, obviously, but I've never denied his talent. I think the biggest storyline with the Olympic team isn't going to be how much we're going to destroy the competition, it's whether players like Kobe, Lebron, Dawayne Wade and Shaq will get along and play like a team.

 

[D-Dogg]

Colangelo isn't making money from the Olympic team, and let's face it, I've said and will continue to say that Kobe is an amazing player and his presence on the team will help. I am leary about how he will play with the other stars on the team, obviously, but I've never denied his talent. I think the biggest storyline with the Olympic team isn't going to be how much we're going to destroy the competition, it's whether players like Kobe, Lebron, Dawayne Wade and Shaq will get along and play like a team.

Shaq won't play. Its a three year commitment, and there's no way he'll do it. I'll go on record right now, that no matter what he says, or Jerry says, Shaq will not don the USA uni again.

I think with Wade, Kobe, LeBron and Howard, you will see a monster of a squad that will play together quite well.

As I always contend, Kobe isn't selfish; he just trusts himself much more than crappy teammates. When he has guys he can trust, he gives them the rock (game 6 in portland, Horry from the corner from Kobe to win the game) etc. He gives trustworthy guys the shots, and he's a very underrated passer. I have no worries that Kobe will trust Wade, LeBron and the like to knock down the shot.

Kobe's A.S. games he plays quite well with topflight players. He also enjoys it a great deal.

 

[Chaplin]

As I always contend, Kobe isn't selfish; he just trusts himself much more than crappy teammates. When he has guys he can trust, he gives them the rock (game 6 in portland, Horry from the corner from Kobe to win the game) etc.

I know we're beating a dead horse here, but he was exactly like that when he DID have good teammates, so the crappy teammates excuse doesn't work. It was part of the downfall of the team that was supposed to roll over everyone (Kobe, Shaq, Malone, Payton).

 

[TucsonDevil]

Great job Kobe - 81 points is amazing.

I wonder what your rape victim thinks of your accomplishment... and don't tell me it wasn't a rape, I read your letter of apology that both parties agreed couldn't be used against you in a civil suit.

 

[D-Dogg]

It was part of the downfall of the team that was supposed to roll over everyone (Kobe, Shaq, Malone, Payton).

Nope, not really. That team was rolling, and rolling hard, when Malone went down. From then on, that team struggled. It wasn't Kobe being "selfish" on the court for that team that created issues, it was his off-court problems and the way he dealt with them (he was quite on edge) that hurt that team otherwise.

But Karl's injury was the most important part of that team's downfall. More than anything else. Kobe was second on the team in assists that year, first in steals, and scored 24 ppg. Anyone with issues on his "team play" that season has issues overall. Payton and Phil did not get along, because Gary didn't like the Tri. Shaq and Kobe blew up FINALLY before the season. Yet still that team rolled until Karl went down, then they played ok enough to win 56 games. Karl goes down early in game 2 of the Finals, and the Lakers get blown out.

Karl was the key that year, because he could defend big men/PFs.

That year was one that Kobe was actually more team-involved than any, and ran the offense to perfection. There were just too many external factors going on for him and the team, and losing Malone was crucial. Kobe's impending FA, Gary bitching about the system, Shaq demanding more money, Phil wanting more money to stay and play mind games, etc. Karl was the glue that held it all together. He's the one who told both Shaq and Kobe to grow the f up and play like men. I hated Karl before he became a Laker, but I respect him a great deal...$1.5 mil was not nearly enough to jump into that powder keg which was about to explode. But the on-court play wasn't the problem...it was the off court myriad of issues. Phil's book on the season was very interesting, unreal they almost won again with all the turmoil. And if Karl were healthy all year, they would have.

 

[Chaplin]

Nope, not really. That team was rolling, and rolling hard, when Malone went down. From then on, that team struggled. It wasn't Kobe being "selfish" on the court for that team that created issues, it was his off-court problems and the way he dealt with them (he was quite on edge) that hurt that team otherwise.

But Karl's injury was the most important part of that team's downfall. More than anything else. Kobe was second on the team in assists that year, first in steals, and scored 24 ppg. Anyone with issues on his "team play" that season has issues overall. Payton and Phil did not get along, because Gary didn't like the Tri. Shaq and Kobe blew up FINALLY before the season. Yet still that team rolled until Karl went down, then they played ok enough to win 56 games. Karl goes down early in game 2 of the Finals, and the Lakers get blown out.

Karl was the key that year, because he could defend big men/PFs.

That year was one that Kobe was actually more team-involved than any, and ran the offense to perfection. There were just too many external factors going on for him and the team, and losing Malone was crucial. Kobe's impending FA, Gary bitching about the system, Shaq demanding more money, Phil wanting more money to stay and play mind games, etc. Karl was the glue that held it all together. He's the one who told both Shaq and Kobe to grow the f up and play like men. I hated Karl before he became a Laker, but I respect him a great deal...$1.5 mil was not nearly enough to jump into that powder keg which was about to explode. But the on-court play wasn't the problem...it was the off court myriad of issues. Phil's book on the season was very interesting, unreal they almost won again with all the turmoil. And if Karl were healthy all year, they would have.

In my opinion, you're wrong, jaded by homerism (as I'm sure you can counter that I'm wrong due to "hating").

 

[D-Dogg]

Great job Kobe - 81 points is amazing.

I wonder what your rape victim thinks of your accomplishment... and don't tell me it wasn't a rape, I read your letter of apology that both parties agreed couldn't be used against you in a civil suit.

Did you happen to read any of the court documents? If you did, then you'd realize it wasn't a rape. I read every legal document that came out. You could too, they were all on the court web site. There was no case, especially when certain details were recanted and others were verified. An apology that says "I can understand how the crazy girl thought it differently than I did" isn't anything to hang your guilty hat on.

But I digress, and refuse to discuss this any further, especially with people who don't know much about the case.

 

[D-Dogg]

In my opinion, you're wrong, jaded by homerism (as I'm sure you can counter that I'm wrong due to "hating").

You're not hating, just uneducated on the Lakers team (as you should be, you don't watch the Lakers day in and out). Fine line between homerism and educated. My opinion is backed by others observations as well.

But for the sake of argument, which part is wrong? That Karl was the key? That Gary hated the offense? That Shaq/Kobe blew up preseason? That Kobe was second on the team in dimes? That Kobe avg'd 24 ppg? (I can tell you why that happened too, with quotes from Malone to back it up). That Kobe had a trial going on? That Karl didn't miss 40 games? And that when back, he was a major reason they beat the Spurs?

Yet still you think the Lakers didn't win the Finals because of Kobe's on court play and not sharing with teammates???

 

[jibikao]

Now we are talking about the rape case... oh my.

When is this going to end?