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Kobe: Priceless
- Thread starter Brian in Mesa
- Start date
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
BOO!!!!!!!!!!
Brian you pretty much rock.
While I may not agree with all your opinions, I do like how they don't change when they suit your purpose.
Stefan, you crack me up. I better never see you crack a Bill and Monica joke over on the politics board since you are okay with Kobe the adulterer.
While I may not agree with all your opinions, I do like how they don't change when they suit your purpose.
Stefan, you crack me up. I better never see you crack a Bill and Monica joke over on the politics board since you are okay with Kobe the adulterer.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
Kobe has done it once, he admitted it. Other than this incident, he's had a pretty good reputation. Bill is the complete opposite from Kobe.
Who said I was OK with Kobe? As I said many times before, I am sad and outraged that Kobe did what he did. I am simply not making fun of somebody's tragedy. I think that is uncalled for, that's all.
Stefan
Who said I was OK with Kobe? As I said many times before, I am sad and outraged that Kobe did what he did. I am simply not making fun of somebody's tragedy. I think that is uncalled for, that's all.
Stefan
OP
OP
Kobe Bryant and Bil Clinton are far from opposites. Both chose to cheat on their wives.
Kobe chose to have sex with this desk girl from a hotel...that's not a tragedy. It was his choice. And he should live with ridicule and a tarnished reputation. He's earned it.
fordronken
Registered User
First off, to be the complete opposite, shouldn't he have not cheated on his wife at all? Secondly, there have been rumors about Kobe in the past. And thirdly, even if there weren't any rumors, does that mean he hasn't done anything? Often times, people who commit crimes, sins or the like, don't get "turned around" until they are caught. I'm not saying he has done things like this in the past, I'm just not saying he hasn't either.
The similarities that I see between Bill Clinton and Kobe Bryant could probably be made between either of these two and most men who cheat on their wives.
1. They both cheated on their wives.
2. Neither of them admitted anything until the forensic evidence showed that they had done it. In my opinion it's ridiculous to give either of them credit for admitting what they had done when they didn't do so until they were totally caught.
Joe Mama
thegrahamcrackr
Registered User
Another big difference:
Kobe has never been president of the united states
Kobe has never been president of the united states
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
Yes, they have one similarity. Tham makes them exactly the same.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Originally posted by SirStefan32
Yes, they have one similarity. Tham makes them exactly the same.
But that is entirely different than complete opposites like you said earlier, and Kobe could be a whole lot worse than President Clinton if he raped her.
LakeShowMan
Registered
Another difference, Clinton has a terrible turnaround jumper, and he doesn't go to his left as well as Kobe.
..but seriously, whats up guys?
As you could probably tell I have been avoiding most basketball sites lately. The whole Kobe event (and that is what the media has turned it into), has really soured me for the time being. I have no idea what happened in that hotel room, and to be fair only two people on earth do, but the only thing I do know is I hope justice is done either way. If he did rape that girl, he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law for the worst crime imaginable (in my mind it as bad if not worse than murder). However, if he is innocent, I hope that people in America can understand that he was put through an ordeal that no person should ever have to live through (especially when said ordeal is completely in the public eye), and he should be treated as such.
Hope everyone is doing well. I can't wait 'til all the drama is over and we can get back to what we all really want to see, basketball.
Peace
P.S. From what I have seen and heard about Shaq's offseason workouts, you should all be afraid, VERY AFRAID. The Deisel is back!!!
..but seriously, whats up guys?
As you could probably tell I have been avoiding most basketball sites lately. The whole Kobe event (and that is what the media has turned it into), has really soured me for the time being. I have no idea what happened in that hotel room, and to be fair only two people on earth do, but the only thing I do know is I hope justice is done either way. If he did rape that girl, he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law for the worst crime imaginable (in my mind it as bad if not worse than murder). However, if he is innocent, I hope that people in America can understand that he was put through an ordeal that no person should ever have to live through (especially when said ordeal is completely in the public eye), and he should be treated as such.
Hope everyone is doing well. I can't wait 'til all the drama is over and we can get back to what we all really want to see, basketball.
Peace
P.S. From what I have seen and heard about Shaq's offseason workouts, you should all be afraid, VERY AFRAID. The Deisel is back!!!
OP
OP
Again - he is only in this mess because he chose to cheat on his wife. Whether he assaulted the girl or not is still in question, but his reputation is shot, and it should be. Guilty or not guilty of assault, Kobe is a piece of crap (IMHO).
Go Lakers!!! (I am a fan of the team, not of #8 )
Chaplin
Better off silent
Hey LSM!
Frankly, he doesn't deserve my sympathy if he's found innocent. He wouldn't even be in this situation if he hadn't cheated on his wife in the first place.
elindholm
edited for content
He wouldn't even be in this situation if he hadn't cheated on his wife in the first place.
Sure, but if you happened to shoplift a can of soda in a moment of weakness, would you think it was fair to be accused of armed robbery?
Sure, but if you happened to shoplift a can of soda in a moment of weakness, would you think it was fair to be accused of armed robbery?
Chaplin
Better off silent
Huh? Who's talking about fair? The guy cheated on his wife. Granted, it's not as bad as rape, but I'm not going to feel sorry for the guy because it was decided that his adultery wasn't sexual assault.
And I"m not so sure either that rape and armed robbery are quite the same thing.
elindholm
edited for content
And I"m not so sure either that rape and armed robbery are quite the same thing.
No, they aren't, but neither are rape and adultery. The point is that there are degrees of bad behavior. Adultery is bad, but rape is worse.
Maybe you've never broken a law (not even going faster than the speed limit?), but surely you've done something wrong in your life. And you probably got caught, and you were probably punished, and that is all well and good. But had you been punished according to a worse offense, you probably would have considered that unfair.
Marbury drove while drunk, got caught, and was punished. Imagine if someone had tried to hang a felony murder charge on him for some made-up reason. If it turned out that he was innocent of the murder, I don't think we would have said, "He drove while drunk, and that's wrong, so he deserves whatever he gets." We would consider it appropriate only for the punishment to fit the crime.
Bryant committed adultery and may have committed rape. He should be punished for the adultery, but if he is innocent of the rape, he should not be punished for that.
No, they aren't, but neither are rape and adultery. The point is that there are degrees of bad behavior. Adultery is bad, but rape is worse.
Maybe you've never broken a law (not even going faster than the speed limit?), but surely you've done something wrong in your life. And you probably got caught, and you were probably punished, and that is all well and good. But had you been punished according to a worse offense, you probably would have considered that unfair.
Marbury drove while drunk, got caught, and was punished. Imagine if someone had tried to hang a felony murder charge on him for some made-up reason. If it turned out that he was innocent of the murder, I don't think we would have said, "He drove while drunk, and that's wrong, so he deserves whatever he gets." We would consider it appropriate only for the punishment to fit the crime.
Bryant committed adultery and may have committed rape. He should be punished for the adultery, but if he is innocent of the rape, he should not be punished for that.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Well, I thought I was clearly stating that I am in support of some kind of punishment, whether it be rape or adultery. I agree there are degrees of punishment, but I never said he should be executed regardless of what happens in the trial.
OP
OP
Like Leonard Little of the Rams? Remember he drove drunk, ran a red light, hit and killed a woman (who was a wife and a mother), and got 3 months in jail and was suspended for 4 NFL games. Then, that same season he won a Super Bowl ring along with his non-murdering-scum teammates.
With pro athletes the punishment rarely ever fits the crime, even when deaths are involved.
thegrahamcrackr
Registered User
Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
Like Leonard Little of the Rams? Remember he drove drunk, ran a red light, hit and killed a woman (who was a wife and a mother), and got 3 months in jail and was suspended for 4 NFL games. Then, that same season he won a Super Bowl ring along with his non-murdering-scum teammates.
With pro athletes the punishment rarely ever fits the crime, even when deaths are involved.
I dont know anything about that incident, nor am I taking any sort of stance on anything going on in this thread (i havent read most of it)
I was just interested in vehicular manslaughter and its penalties in a case like Brian mentioned. I looked it up for MO since he was on the rams.
This is a passed bill I found
I didnt look for the date this was posted, nor do I know when this event took place.
However, the bill was for vehicular manslaughter by an intoxicated driver. It says they must serve no less than 10 and no more than 15 years in a state prison. It also said under the "current" law, it is deemed involuntary manslaughter, and carries a MAX penalty of 7 years.
The bill defines and enhances the penalty for the crime of
vehicular manslaughter by an intoxicated person. Vehicular
manslaughter by an intoxicated person is defined as the
criminally negligent act of operating a motor vehicle while
intoxicated that causes the death of any person. The punishment
for vehicular manslaughter by an intoxicated person is
imprisonment for a term of not less than 10 nor more than 15
years. Under current law, the operation of a motor vehicle in
an intoxicated condition resulting in the death of another
person is deemed involuntary manslaughter which is a class C
felony. The maximum prison term is not to exceed 7 years.
The bill also requires that a person convicted of or who has
pled guilty to 2 or more alcohol related municipal violations
within one year must serve a minimum sentence of 60 days
incarceration.
LakeShowMan
Registered
Adultery is no doubt wrong, but to say that a person is not getting unfairly persecuted if he is being falsely
accused of a crime as heinous as rape is absolutely rediculous. Rape is a whole other animal from cheating on your wife.
I had a very good friend that was falsely accused of rape, and the stigma is still unfairly attached to him, while the girl who brought the charges had absolutely no recourse taken against her. There is not many things in this world worse than calling an innocent person a rapist.
I too have had my name drug through the mud by an ex-girlfriend who claim I beat her, because she was mad I broke up with her and she was the type of personality that constantly needs attention and is also vindictive. I never laid a hand on her, and everyone that knows me knows I never would, but that didn't stop me from having some uncomfortable moments around those that knew me through her.
Nobody should cheat on their wife/husband. It is immoral, and shows a weakness in someones character that made a sacred bond with another person. HOWEVER, it is in NO way anything close to the charge that has been brought against Kobe. He may not be a great person because he cheated on his wife, but being a rapist is a completely different thing. Someone who falsely accuses someone of something like that may be just as bad as someone who actually does it.
accused of a crime as heinous as rape is absolutely rediculous. Rape is a whole other animal from cheating on your wife.
I had a very good friend that was falsely accused of rape, and the stigma is still unfairly attached to him, while the girl who brought the charges had absolutely no recourse taken against her. There is not many things in this world worse than calling an innocent person a rapist.
I too have had my name drug through the mud by an ex-girlfriend who claim I beat her, because she was mad I broke up with her and she was the type of personality that constantly needs attention and is also vindictive. I never laid a hand on her, and everyone that knows me knows I never would, but that didn't stop me from having some uncomfortable moments around those that knew me through her.
Nobody should cheat on their wife/husband. It is immoral, and shows a weakness in someones character that made a sacred bond with another person. HOWEVER, it is in NO way anything close to the charge that has been brought against Kobe. He may not be a great person because he cheated on his wife, but being a rapist is a completely different thing. Someone who falsely accuses someone of something like that may be just as bad as someone who actually does it.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
Excellent post.
OP
OP
This is a very cyclical argument.
You defend Kobe by saying he might only be an adulterer falsely accused of rape and then someone else counters by saying that he is only in this mess because he dropped his trousers and got busy with the help at a Colorado resort.
FACT: If he did not cheat on his wife with this woman, he would not be in this mess right now.
Sure, she could have made up charges against him out of the blue even if he was only staying at the resort and had nothing to do with her, but the fact is he had sex with her and now the question is whether or not it was completely consensual or not.
Rape is not always a prehistoric man clubbing a woman and assualting her. It's rape if the woman, at any time, says no.
Also - anytime a person chooses to have sex with someone they've only known for a number of minutes or maybe a couple of hours at most, they are opening themselves up to a multitude of possibilities. Especially when you're a pro athlete.
I guess we'll have to wait for the case to proceed and hear the evidence presented before any of us rush to judgment, but I think it's ridiculous to automatically say "It's Kobe, he wouldn't assault a woman." There were two people in that room: A married man and the woman with whom he was cheating on his wife with.
Kobe could have hung out with his bodyguards or done the right thing and brought his wife with him on the trip, but he didn't. Kobe could have sat in his room by himself, but he didn't.
Kobe chose to go after a woman other than his wife and is now in a huge mess because of his choice.
I do not feel an ounce of pity for him. But that's just me.
fordronken
Registered User
What number of things would classify as "many"?
LakeShowMan
Registered
First of all, nowhere did I "defend" Kobe. I said if he is being falsely accused he is being put through a terribly unfair ordeal. I also said he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law if guilty
This has nothing to do with what I am talking about. You are getting in to a moral squabble when I am talking on a criminal level. Obviously if he kept his pants on this wouldn't have happened, but just because someone commits adultery doesn't mean they should be able to be falsely accused of a much more heinous crime if they happen to be innocent (not saying that Kobe is).
This is just more of the same. You are completely missing my point.
1. Was Kobe wrong for commiting adultry? Hell yes. There is no excuse to be made. He destroyed the covenant he entered into with his wife.
2. As for: Also - anytime a person chooses to have sex with someone they've only known for a number of minutes or maybe a couple of hours at most, they are opening themselves up to a multitude of possibilities.
Well that is a moral question, not a legal problem. I tend to agree with you as I am sure most do, however between two consenting adults it is not illegal, period.
3. Did I ever say "It's Kobe, he wouldn't assault a woman."? No, not once. In fact I said I have no idea what happened in that hotel room, and neither does anyone else on this board.
4. Do I feel pity for him? Depends. I feel no pity for the decision he made. He was wrong. If he did what he is accused of doing he should be locked up and suffer the consequences. However, if he didn't do it, I do feel pity for him because being falsely accused of something like this, especially in front of the whole world, is a very crappy thing, no matter what the morality of the issue is.
5. I respect your views on adultery. I really do. I wish more people in the world felt the way you do. However there is no written down morality that everyone must follow. That is just the way it is. People are raised differently and believe in different things.
However, criminal and legal rules are written down and must be obeyed by everyone living in said area. This is why we have courts to decide if people have broken these rules, and if they have, how they are to be punished.
You may have lost all respect for Kobe because he cheated on his wife (and in fact I applaud you for your convictions, because many people out there are not as strident in theirs), but that doesn't make him a rapist. Kobe was wrong, he shouldn't have cheated on his wife. I will never look at him the same way again, and I too have lost a lot of respect for him. I am going to wait and see what happens in his trial. If he is found guilty he is no better than any other rapist in the world, and I hope he pays dearly for his crime. If he is found innocent, I hope people give him the benefit of the fact that even though he is not the goody-two-shoes many led us to believe he was, he is also not a rapist or a criminal psychopath. Lets wait until we find out what happend before casting judgement on something we really have no facts on. "Let he who is perfect cast the first stone"-that sure as hell isn't me.
