Kobe strikes again

[D-Dogg]

So you'd rather have a broken nose because Kobe's trying to cheat the system than have a bruised chest because you acted like a jackass and pissed off the wrong person? I wouldn't want either myself, but at least in the Shaq incident he was being provoked by Bynum (jumping up and down like he just won the NBA finals and then jumping into Shaq). What did Kobe's victims do to deserve elbows to the face? Oh that's right, they played good defense on him......those bastards, they deserved it (note the sarcasm).

Yes, absolutely. Because one happens during the flow of the game and the other is someone not able to control their temper. And by the way, nobody broke their nose. :roll:

Sorry, basketball is a contact sport. As I mentioned above talking with wally...I've had more than my fair share of bloody noses and broken limbs from hard fouls and elbows. It happens. But if someone is taking a swing at me, it isn't part of the game.

 

[jbeecham]

Yes, absolutely. Because one happens during the flow of the game and the other is someone not able to control their temper. And by the way, nobody broke their nose. :roll:

Sure nobody got their nose broken yet, but Bryant doesn't seem to be stopping his tactics. The NBA is now officially investigating the Korver incident we've been talking about for days:

Is the NBA looking into another wayward elbow from Kobe Bryant?

According to a story in the Philadelphia Daily News, citing an NBA source, the league is looking at an elbow Bryant threw in the direction of Philadelphia's Kyle Korver late in the first half of Friday's game.

Bryant caught Korver near the neck with his left elbow on a drive to the hoop, The Associated Press reported Saturday.

Bryant was suspended for one game last week for an elbow that hit the face of Minnesota guard Marko Jaric. He also received a suspension earlier this season for an elbow to the face of San Antonio's Manu Ginobli.

Korver said Saturday in Indianapolis: "I didn't think it was that big a deal. I thought it was an offensive foul. After I saw it on replay, it looked a lot worse than I thought it was during the game. It all happens fast. It's no big deal. It's just part of the game."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2795315

So Shaq's is worse because he showed his intent (whether provoked or not), while Kobe tried to make his elbows look like an accident (and did a poor job at that) so Kobe's aren't as bad in your mind. I don't think that's really the problem here though because I think if Shaq was on the Lakers in that play and Bynum was on the Heat then you'd have thrown a hissy fit if Shaq got suspended for 1 game for that. I think with you being a Lakers fan, you can never see the Kobe elbow situation unbiased enough to see how bad it really is and why it's deserving of suspensions. He's been getting away with this kind of crap for years and the NBA has finally started to take notice. I'm sure Raja Bell is loving every minute of this.

 

[Covert Rain]

Does anybody really think it's the last? I don't.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Sure nobody got their nose broken yet, but Bryant doesn't seem to be stopping his tactics. The NBA is now officially investigating the Korver incident we've been talking about for days:

Is the NBA looking into another wayward elbow from Kobe Bryant?

According to a story in the Philadelphia Daily News, citing an NBA source, the league is looking at an elbow Bryant threw in the direction of Philadelphia's Kyle Korver late in the first half of Friday's game.

Bryant caught Korver near the neck with his left elbow on a drive to the hoop, The Associated Press reported Saturday.

Bryant was suspended for one game last week for an elbow that hit the face of Minnesota guard Marko Jaric. He also received a suspension earlier this season for an elbow to the face of San Antonio's Manu Ginobli.

Korver said Saturday in Indianapolis: "I didn't think it was that big a deal. I thought it was an offensive foul. After I saw it on replay, it looked a lot worse than I thought it was during the game. It all happens fast. It's no big deal. It's just part of the game."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2795315

So Shaq's is worse because he showed his intent (whether provoked or not), while Kobe tried to make his elbows look like an accident (and did a poor job at that) so Kobe's aren't as bad in your mind. I don't think that's really the problem here though because I think if Shaq was on the Lakers in that play and Bynum was on the Heat then you'd have thrown a hissy fit if Shaq got suspended for 1 game for that. I think with you being a Lakers fan, you can never see the Kobe elbow situation unbiased enough to see how bad it really is and why it's deserving of suspensions. He's been getting away with this kind of crap for years and the NBA has finally started to take notice. I'm sure Raja Bell is loving every minute of this.

Um, I am a Suns fan through and through, but thinking that Kobe's elbows are worse than Shaq's forearm to the neck is sheer lunacy. How in the world are you advocating Shaq, when part of your argument all along is that Kobe was not using a natural shooting motion. What do you call what Shaq was doing, legally getting position?

Kobe's elbows happened in-game, and only Kobe knows if they are intentional. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE knows that what Shaq did was intentional.

How can you not see that?

 

[Mulli]

"Uh, it was not intentional. Basketball is a rough sport, uh."

/Low monotone Big Aristotle voice.

 

[TJ]

That sounds like one of those Kevin-Bacon-in-five-moves-or-less things!

Six degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon. I did mine in four

 

[jbeecham]

Um, I am a Suns fan through and through, but thinking that Kobe's elbows are worse than Shaq's forearm to the neck is sheer lunacy. How in the world are you advocating Shaq, when part of your argument all along is that Kobe was not using a natural shooting motion. What do you call what Shaq was doing, legally getting position?

Kobe's elbows happened in-game, and only Kobe knows if they are intentional. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE knows that what Shaq did was intentional.

How can you not see that?

I'm not advocating Shaq, what he did was obviously wrong, but I can also understand why he did it with Bynum provoking him by acting like a jackass and initiating the situation. In my opinion, that was a minor fight in the NBA because no punches were thrown and it didn't escalate any further (and no one was hit in the face, which seems like what the NBA looks for 1st when handing out suspensions). The other factor in this is that it happened last year when the NBA wasn't cracking down on rough play like they are this year and if it happened this year then Shaq would probably get suspended for it.

I actually like that Shaq made his intentions known and didn't try to make his retaliation look like an accident. At least Shaq had a reason for doing what he did to Bynum. Kobe has no excuse for cheap shotting his opponents for playing good defense on him, whether you want to believe it's intentional or not. I believe his elbowing is intentional especially after what happened with him and Raja Bell in last years playoffs.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I'm not advocating Shaq, what he did was obviously wrong, but I can also understand why he did it with Bynum provoking him by acting like a jackass and initiating the situation. In my opinion, that was a minor fight in the NBA because no punches were thrown and it didn't escalate any further (and no one was hit in the face, which seems like what the NBA looks for 1st when handing out suspensions). The other factor in this is that it happened last year when the NBA wasn't cracking down on rough play like they are this year and if it happened this year then Shaq would probably get suspended for it.

I actually like that Shaq made his intentions known and didn't try to make his retaliation look like an accident. At least Shaq had a reason for doing what he did to Bynum. Kobe has no excuse for cheap shotting his opponents for playing good defense on him, whether you want to believe it's intentional or not. I believe his elbowing is intentional especially after what happened with him and Raja Bell in last years playoffs.

So getting shown up by someone half your age is a justifable (understandable) reason to do what Shaq did?

The fact that we can argue whether Kobe's elbows were intentional is exactly my point. We can't do that with Shaq.

Can you just imagine how many times Mt. Mutombo would have been suspended under these Kobe-fied rules?

 

[D-Dogg]

while Kobe tried to make his elbows look like an accident

You do know those plays didn't happen in slow motion, right? Are you really saying that Kobe, while shooting the ball had the ability to locate the guy behind him, shoot and angle his hand back to smack him intentionally in the face (with precise aim, of course), then catch the ball and shoot again, all in a split second? Damn, he's better than I thought.

because I think if Shaq was on the Lakers in that play and Bynum was on the Heat then you'd have thrown a hissy fit if Shaq got suspended for 1 game for that.

Then you would be wrong. You don't know me, obviously, if that's what you think. So I'd advise you to stop thinking about what I'd do since you have a misguided perception of how I'd react to anything.

 

[jbeecham]

So getting shown up by someone half your age is a justifable (understandable) reason to do what Shaq did?

The fact that we can argue whether Kobe's elbows were intentional is exactly my point. We can't do that with Shaq.

Can you just imagine how many times Mt. Mutombo would have been suspended under these Kobe-fied rules?

Watch the Shaq play again, after Bynum's dunk he slams the ball down so that it bounces high in the air and starts jumping around like he won the NBA finals and then runs down the court and jumps into Shaq leading with his elbow into Shaq's chest, then Shaq comes back at him with his own elbow. 95% of NBA players would've probably reacted the same way, if it was Rasheed Wallace or Ron Artest then Bynum would've gotten knocked out and a brawl might have started. Bynum's excessive celebration should've been stopped by the refs right away and it wasn't and then the resulting incident happened.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Watch the Shaq play again, after Bynum's dunk he slams the ball down so that it bounces high in the air and starts jumping around like he won the NBA finals and then runs down the court and jumps into Shaq leading with his elbow into Shaq's chest, then Shaq comes back at him with his own elbow. 95% of NBA players would've probably reacted the same way, if it was Rasheed Wallace or Ron Artest then Bynum would've gotten knocked out that there might have been a brawl. Bynum's excessive celebration should've been stopped by the refs right away and it wasn't and then the resulting incident happened.

So what!!! Excessive celebration is decided by referees giving technicals, not by thuggery. If Shaq wanted to show him up, he should have made him look silly like Bynum did the play before.

 

[D-Dogg]

So what!!! Excessive celebration is decided by referees giving technicals, not by thuggery. If Shaq wanted to show him up, he should have made him look silly like Bynum did the play before.

Shaq did make Bynum look silly in the first place.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Shaq did make Bynum look silly in the first place.

I know, but I did not want to use the word "again" in the sentence. I had it in there, but it flowed better without.

 

[jbeecham]

You do know those plays didn't happen in slow motion, right? Are you really saying that Kobe, while shooting the ball had the ability to locate the guy behind him, shoot and angle his hand back to smack him intentionally in the face (with precise aim, of course), then catch the ball and shoot again, all in a split second? Damn, he's better than I thought.

For someone who throws his elbows around so accidentally, he sure has an amazing knack for hitting guys square in the face.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

For someone who throws his elbows around so accidentally, he sure has an amazing knack for hitting guys square in the face.

The one against Korver, he wasn't even looking at him. Like D-Dogg said, I didn't know he was that good.

 

[jbeecham]

So what!!! Excessive celebration is decided by referees giving technicals, not by thuggery. If Shaq wanted to show him up, he should have made him look silly like Bynum did the play before.

All I'm saying is that I can understand why Shaq did it and I would've reacted the same way if I were him in that situation (as would most NBA players). Shaq probably showed some restraint by not throwing punches. Again, it makes no sense to bring up a play that happened last year as a reason why Kobe shouldn't be suspended because the rules are different now.

 

[D-Dogg]

All I'm saying is that I can understand why Shaq did it and I would've reacted the same way if I were him in that situation (as would most NBA players). Shaq probably showed some restraint by not throwing punches. Again, it makes no sense to bring up a play that happened last year as a reason why Kobe shouldn't be suspended because the rules are different now.

When did the rules change?

 

[jbeecham]

The one against Korver, he wasn't even looking at him. Like D-Dogg said, I didn't know he was that good.

Just like he wasn't looking at Raja when he repeatedly caught him with elbows in the face last year. If you think Kobe has no idea where his defender is then why does he throw his elbow back in a clear out motion and why is his elbow so high in the air?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

All I'm saying is that I can understand why Shaq did it and I would've reacted the same way if I were him in that situation (as would most NBA players). Shaq probably showed some restraint by not throwing punches. Again, it makes no sense to bring up a play that happened last year as a reason why Kobe shouldn't be suspended because the rules are different now.

I don't understand why the rules are different now. There is not an emphasis on flying elbows this year. The only emphasis is on player's reactions to calls by the referees.

If Ginobili would have hit Kobe in the nose to start this off, I am fairly certain that he would not have been suspended. The fact that the refs and the league are not consistent with their calls/rulings is what troubles me.

 

[jbeecham]

When did the rules change?

You know what I mean. The league re-defined what constitutes a technical foul to crack down on rough play and to reduce complaining.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Just like he wasn't looking at Raja when he repeatedly caught him with elbows in the face last year. If you think Kobe has no idea where his defender is then why does he throw his elbow back in a clear out motion and why is his elbow so high in the air?

I am not saying that Kobe is above using his elbows, but I do argue his intention on the Korver play.

 

[jbeecham]

If Ginobili would have hit Kobe in the nose to start this off, I am fairly certain that he would not have been suspended. The fact that the refs and the league are not consistent with their calls/rulings is what troubles me.

That depends on how he did it. If he did it like Kobe did then I think he would be suspended. The league wasn't out to get Kobe when this started. Now he's being scrutinized a lot more because of the repeated offenses.

I agree on the league & refs inconsistency, but comparing different types of plays from different seasons doesn't make a good argument (which is what DDogg was doing).

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You know what I mean. The league re-defined what constitutes a technical foul to crack down on rough play and to reduce complaining.

See, thats the thing. The league, used to look at plays and then decide on whether they should be assessed a technical, flagrant, or flagrant 2 foul. They don't do that anymore.

 

[jbeecham]

Yeah and they haven't even kept up with what they defined as technicals from the beginning of the season (unless your name is Amare Stoudemire or Rasheed Wallace, then you can still get a tech for waving off a ref).

 

[D-Dogg]

You know what I mean. The league re-defined what constitutes a technical foul to crack down on rough play and to reduce complaining.

I don't think rough play had anything to do with it. It was just to stop the whining.

AFAIK, there have been no rule changes in regards to rough play.