Kolb Deal done - Including Contract

[kerouac9]

I'm okay with it, but there is no way the Eagles cannot be considered the winner of this trade (today) given that they are trading their backup QB for a starting CB and a high pick. This was a trade between a team with an almost unbearable need and one with abundance of that need.

Even if Kolb is great in Arizona, the only way the Cards would look like they truly won the trade is if DRC and Vick are so bad that it looks like it should have been obvious in retrospect. Very doubtful.

I don't think this is necessarily true. Schaub hasn't been "great" in Houston unless you're his fantasy football owner, but no one things that Atlanta got the wrong end of that trade (although I truly have no memory of who they used those two second-round picks for).

This trade looks bad if DRC returns to his 2009 form with a functional pass rush in front of him, regardless of how Vick performs, if Kolb doesn't become a Top 12 quarterback. You'll always trade a Top 12 cornerback for a Top 12 quarterback. But if Kolb becomes a guy who can operate an offense that you have to surround with excellent weapons, or can't close out games, or gets injured early and often, then the trade will look bad.

 

[Folster]

So now we have our QB. Now all we need is an o-line to protect him, an offensive weapon besides Fitzgerald, and a defense to get him the ball.

 

[daves]

The Cassel comparison is bunk. Cassel, well, sucks. He was proven that he isnt very good. One 'system' year in NE and he has been terrible in KC.

Maybe you stopped watching him after 2009 - his first year in a new system with a lousy team with a new coaching staff - because in 2010, to my surprise, he was pretty darned good:

10-5 record, 3116 yards, 27 TDs, 7 INTs, 93.0 rating, voted to the Pro Bowl.

Does that make him a great QB? No. But it's better than his 'system' year in NE, it sure as heck isn't "terrible", and i would've been ecstatic with that kind of performance from the Cardinals' QBs last year.

(Just for purposes of comparison, Kurt Warner's stats in 2009 were:
10-5 record, 3753 yards, 26 TDs, 14 INTs, 93.2 rating.

...dave

 

[Unsterblich856]

ESPN POLL: Who received better deal, Cards or Eagles;nationally 80% chose eagles. 60% of ppl in Arizona chose the eagles as well. Lets hope theyre wrong...

80% is too low. We got robbed big time.

 

[Mainstreet]

Which becomes a debate. If we do fail horribly, which is certainly possible. Do we go after Andrew Luck in next years draft?

Absolutely. Always draft the BPA, especially at QB. Teams will always pay a premium for a quality QB. If a team has two, so much the better. They have excellent trade value.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I like the deal. Those who say we overpaid are being reactionary. If Orton went to Miami as expected , who would you want as QB for the Cards? You have to give something to get something. If DRC wasn't in the deal, Philly may not make the trade unless some higher draft picks were included. Philly was in the driver's seat. Their wosrt case scenario was having KOlb back up Vick and that's not too bad. The Cards worse case scenario was having Skelton , Max Hall, Brodie Croyle, and Trent Edwards battle it out for the QB position.

 

[Pariah]

If Orton went to Miami as expected , who would you want as QB for the Cards?

We don't have to play that particular "if" game, though. When we pulled the trigger on this deal that one was falling apart.

My answer to that question is still: "Orton."

 

[dogpoo32]

Yikes... Hope this works.

 

[Buckybird]

That's exactly the scenario where DRC would excel. In man coverage on an island. Where he sucked was in off man coverage where he was expected to diagnose passing lanes in three-deep looks. Combine that with the general hopelessness of the team whenever the opposition got up by more than 7 points and I'm not sure that you can gauge anything on anyone's play in 2010 except that the linebackers were terrible.

DRC was part of the solution, not part of the problem. We just jettisoned one of the four best players on our team, along with a high draft pick. Kolb better be one of the top 12 quarterbacks in the NFL this year just justify that deal.



If we didn't go after Kolb we'd have Hasselbeck (or his moral equivalent), Skelton with another year under his belt, and maybe a rookie first round QB who hasn't proven anything in the NFL, and one of the top 12 corners in football. We go after Kolb, and we don't have a top cornerback, and we still have a QB who hasn't proven anything in the NFL, for twice the price of a high first round QB, minus a second-round pick in 2012.

No one is romanticizing QB play last year. My POV all along has been that with even average QB play, this is probably a 7 to 9 win team. Do you need to give up a near-elite player at a premium position in the NFL (cornerback is right alongside left tackle at premium positions, behind quarterback and pass rusher)? If Kolb doesn't play like Warner, and we're losing games 35-24 instead of 42-7, is that all it takes to make this trade a success for you?

So this is a win-win scenario for the Cards? If Kolb sucks then nothing ventured, nothing gained, but if he's average then... what?

I guess it was Matt Cassel's crappiness that had him passing for 3100 yards with 27 TDs and 7 INTs in 2010. That 93.3 QB rating was craptacular.

None of us know how well/bad Kolb will be given his limited snaps as a pro. IMO this gives us the best chance to resign Fitz other than adding Hasselbeck, Bulger, Orton, Skelton or whomever. Kolb may struggle early on this year due to the lockout & I expect him to be better in 2012.

I like the future of the Cards past 2011 with Fitz/Kolb more than with the other QB scrubs/DRC. The Big Red had to roll the dice to retain 1 of the best WR's in the game 2day & they did!!! Hats off to them for really trying to get better.

 

[azsportsfan01]

I don't think this is necessarily true. Schaub hasn't been "great" in Houston unless you're his fantasy football owner, but no one things that Atlanta got the wrong end of that trade (although I truly have no memory of who they used those two second-round picks for).

They swapped 1st rounders in 2007 and Atlanta got two 2nd rounders.

In 2007 the Falcons got Jamaal Anderson (DE) with the pick they move up. In the 2nd they got Justin Blalock (OG). In 2008 the Falcons traded the pick to Washington who took Fred Davis (TE).

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

This garbage about DRC not fitting the system or being a bad guy or whatever are lame justifications.

Agreed.

There's no attitude problem in professional sports that can't be fixed with money, and winning.

 

[kerouac9]

I like the deal. Those who say we overpaid are being reactionary. If Orton went to Miami as expected , who would you want as QB for the Cards? You have to give something to get something. If DRC wasn't in the deal, Philly may not make the trade unless some higher draft picks were included. Philly was in the driver's seat. Their wosrt case scenario was having KOlb back up Vick and that's not too bad. The Cards worse case scenario was having Skelton , Max Hall, Brodie Croyle, and Trent Edwards battle it out for the QB position.

Reactionary to what? Those who are saying we made a good trade are being reactionary based on all the conversations saying that DRC is too much.

With the market as it is right now, the deal makes slightly more sense. But three days ago this deal is insane. It's because the Cards were fixated on Kolb that they allowed the other options to evaporate.

DRC for Kolb alone is overpaying, but if Kolb turns out to be a solid QB (among the top 6-12 QBs in the NFL), then it's all right. You'll take an above-average QB over an elite cornerback.

DRC + a second round pick remains highway robbery. Again, look at the evidence of what a semi-proven QB is worth. At least Cassel illustrated that he could take a beating. Kolb parlayed an early-season head injury into $20 million guaranteed.

 

[Mainstreet]

We don't have to play that particular "if" game, though. When we pulled the trigger on this deal that one was falling apart.

My answer to that question is still: "Orton."

Definitely Orton would have cost the Cardinals less in player talent and less riskier IMO.

However, the Cardinals and probably Fitz were locked in to Kolb. Let's just hope the Cardinals got it right.

 

[Rivercard]

DRC for Kolb alone is overpaying,

I'm more bummed about losing a #2. That's gonna hurt next year.

 

[Pariah]

DRC for Kolb alone is overpaying, but if Kolb turns out to be a solid QB (among the top 6-12 QBs in the NFL), then it's all right. You'll take an above-average QB over an elite cornerback.

DRC + a second round pick remains highway robbery.

I wouldn't have balked at a first rounder.

I wouldn't have liked it, but I also wouldn't have balked at a straight-up DRC for Kolb trade.

But as it stands? Seems like way too much to me. I think the Cardinals manage to talk themselves into a lot of things.

 

[Pariah]

I'm more bummed about losing a #2. That's gonna hurt next year.

Maybe the Cardinals can trade Dockett for a second rounder...and then draft his replacement with that pick.

 

[kerouac9]

Maybe the Cardinals can trade Dockett for a second rounder...and then draft his replacement with that pick.

I heard that he put a video of him showering on the internet. Also, he has a lot of run-ins with the police. Sounds like a potential clubhouse cancer. He's not a good fit for the current system. Etc., etc.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I'll like it in about 3 years when Kolb is entering his prime, DRC is gone through free agency, and the 2nd round pick has flushed out of the league. I think that's more likley to happne thna KK stinking up the place.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

However, the Cardinals and probably Fitz were locked in to Kolb.

For quite some time it would seem.

Someone on the radio was saying how, during the predictions portion of the CBS NFL roundtable after the last broadcast game of 2010, Bill Cowher prophesied that "Arizona would trade for Kevin Kolb".

I'm sure that Cowher and The Whis still keep in contact, and that a trade for Kolb was probably something that The Whis was advocating during last season.

 

[Mainstreet]

Kent Somers at azcentral does a good question/ answer about why Kevin Kolb.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/135894

I'm not as worried as some about Kolb because I think Skelton will eventually be be the QBOF but it is a gamble the Cardinals had to make if they believe Kolb is their man.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

That's exactly the scenario where DRC would excel. In man coverage on an island. Where he sucked was in off man coverage where he was expected to diagnose passing lanes in three-deep looks. Combine that with the general hopelessness of the team whenever the opposition got up by more than 7 points and I'm not sure that you can gauge anything on anyone's play in 2010 except that the linebackers were terrible.

DRC was part of the solution, not part of the problem. We just jettisoned one of the four best players on our team, along with a high draft pick. Kolb better be one of the top 12 quarterbacks in the NFL this year just justify that deal.



If we didn't go after Kolb we'd have Hasselbeck (or his moral equivalent), Skelton with another year under his belt, and maybe a rookie first round QB who hasn't proven anything in the NFL, and one of the top 12 corners in football. We go after Kolb, and we don't have a top cornerback, and we still have a QB who hasn't proven anything in the NFL, for twice the price of a high first round QB, minus a second-round pick in 2012.

No one is romanticizing QB play last year. My POV all along has been that with even average QB play, this is probably a 7 to 9 win team. Do you need to give up a near-elite player at a premium position in the NFL (cornerback is right alongside left tackle at premium positions, behind quarterback and pass rusher)? If Kolb doesn't play like Warner, and we're losing games 35-24 instead of 42-7, is that all it takes to make this trade a success for you?

So this is a win-win scenario for the Cards? If Kolb sucks then nothing ventured, nothing gained, but if he's average then... what?

I guess it was Matt Cassel's crappiness that had him passing for 3100 yards with 27 TDs and 7 INTs in 2010. That 93.3 QB rating was craptacular.

I can only say that if Kolb works out, leads this team to the playoffs, and wins more games then he losses it is a success. My point was if he plays like Warner and we make a SB run who in the hell cares what we gave up for him at that point? Are you still going to be bitching that "we paid to much for Kolb, wish we still had DRC and 5 wins" No you wont!

The Cards took a shot, we have no idea if they swung and missed or hit a GrandSlam. But they took a chance and I am glad they did.

We can agree to disagree on Cassel. If you watched his play last year it was very erratic. Stats lie in this case.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Agreed.

There's no attitude problem in professional sports that can't be fixed with money, and winning.

that's right! just ask ryan leaf, er . . .

 

[kerouac9]

I can only say that if Kolb works out, leads this team to the playoffs, and wins more games then he losses it is a success. My point was if he plays like Warner and we make a SB run who in the hell cares what we gave up for him at that point? Are you still going to be bitching that "we paid to much for Kolb, wish we still had DRC and 5 wins" No you wont!

The Cards took a shot, we have no idea if they swung and missed or hit a GrandSlam. But they took a chance and I am glad they did.

We can agree to disagree on Cassel. If you watched his play last year it was very erratic. Stats lie in this case.

Does the 10-6 record lie? I thought that as long as Kolb leads the team to the playoffs and wins more games than he loses he's a success? Cassel does exactly that and not only is not just an average quarterback (my opinion on him and IMO the likely outcome with Kolb in the short- and long-term), but he "sucks"?

The results of the best-case and worst-case scenarios are irrelevant to me. What I'm interested in is what's in the middle and what is the most likely result. Is Kolb going to challenge Brady, P. Manning, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Rodgers, or Brees as a top QB? No.

Is Kolb going to challenge Vick, E. Manning, Joe Flacco, Mark Sanchez, Matt Ryan, and Schaub as the second tier? I don't know; I think that in the best-case scenario he does.

Is Kolb going to join Josh Freeman, David Garrard, Kyle Orton, Jay Cutler, and Tony Romo as guys who are going to keep you in the 9 to 7 win range but probably aren't going to lead you to the promised land? That's where I see him most likely ending up.

At what point would the trade have seemed like a BAD idea to you? Does it not matter whether a chance is a good one as long as a chance is taken? Why denigrate drafting a rookie when 8 of the top 10 QBs in 2010 were playing for the teams that drafted them, and all but Brady was a first-round pick?

If Kolb plays like Warner and we still end up 7-9 because we can't stop anyone on defense--you know, kind of like Matt Schaub plays for the Texans--then, yeah, I'll complain that we made the wrong choice.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

that's right! just ask ryan leaf, er . . .

Hey man, he can buy and sell all of us!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Does the 10-6 record lie? I thought that as long as Kolb leads the team to the playoffs and wins more games than he loses he's a success? Cassel does exactly that and not only is not just an average quarterback (my opinion on him and IMO the likely outcome with Kolb in the short- and long-term), but he "sucks"?

The results of the best-case and worst-case scenarios are irrelevant to me. What I'm interested in is what's in the middle and what is the most likely result. Is Kolb going to challenge Brady, P. Manning, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Rodgers, or Brees as a top QB? No.

Is Kolb going to challenge Vick, E. Manning, Joe Flacco, Mark Sanchez, Matt Ryan, and Schaub as the second tier? I don't know; I think that in the best-case scenario he does.

Is Kolb going to join Josh Freeman, David Garrard, Kyle Orton, Jay Cutler, and Tony Romo as guys who are going to keep you in the 9 to 7 win range but probably aren't going to lead you to the promised land? That's where I see him most likely ending up.

At what point would the trade have seemed like a BAD idea to you? Does it not matter whether a chance is a good one as long as a chance is taken? Why denigrate drafting a rookie when 8 of the top 10 QBs in 2010 were playing for the teams that drafted them, and all but Brady was a first-round pick?

If Kolb plays like Warner and we still end up 7-9 because we can't stop anyone on defense--you know, kind of like Matt Schaub plays for the Texans--then, yeah, I'll complain that we made the wrong choice.

Im not of the camp that says DRC wasnt a good fit etc. I didnt want to lose hm either, but for gods sake if thats what it takes to get some consistent QB play (and hopefulyl better) around here and win some games then IM for it. I will always value a good QB more than a great CB. Always.

The fact is that judging if this is a mistake or not, to me, is more on what Kolb and the Cardinals do and less on what we gave up for him. Hey Whiz put all his eggs in the Kolb basket and if he had any misgivings on whether or not Kolb was the answer, thats on him.

So on the flip side of your 7-9 plays like Warner arguement, then if the defense keeps us in games, Kolb plays like Trent Dilfer, and the Cards go 10-6, the trade was a good one right?