Kolb or Skelton

[WildBB]

The guy who's 1-0 as the starter.

 

[Totally_Red]

If Kolb is ever motivated to go the extra mile, it's this week in Philly. For that reason alone, if he's healthy enough to play, I'd start him. Not saying it was Anquan Boldin vs. us two weeks ago, just saying he does have extra motivation to go out and show the Eagle fans and Andy Reid that a huge mistake was made, and lay an "L" on Michael Vick.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

The guy who's 1-0 as the starter.

We played the RAMS...AT HOME...the QB gave them 4 points...the D gave up 3 measley FGs...we won because we have Devin Hester, part 2.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

We played the RAMS...AT HOME...the QB gave them 4 points...the D gave up 3 measley FGs...we won because we have Devin Hester, part 2.

and we needed OT to win...and the QB did not get on the field in OT.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

This should not even be a discussion. Believe me, I understand Kolb has showed almost nothing, however...

I don't understand how anyone can reasonably think that we would trade a number 2 and a bonafide starter for a QB, and give him only 7 games to prove himself.

Everybody loves the backup QB, until he plays. At which point, someone else is the backup QB.

 

[conraddobler]

This should not even be a discussion. Believe me, I understand Kolb has showed almost nothing, however...

I don't understand how anyone can reasonably think that we would trade a number 2 and a bonafide starter for a QB, and give him only 7 games to prove himself.

Everybody loves the backup QB, until he plays. At which point, someone else is the backup QB.

But it is and so there.

Kolb has turf toe so the saga continues.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

When it comes to this situation I am split.


1. Kolb - No doubt 7 games is not enough to condemn the guy. Yet, I am sizing up the shackles for the guy. It is disheartening to see a QB miss wide open WR's when under no pressure. He doesn't seem to have any composure. He seems to be too frantic, and emotional. Not to mention I am very, very dissappointed with his arm strength. He doesn't seem to know how to read a defense. He is was supposed to come to this organization more polished, and more of a "right now" solution. Look at the record, and the stats. He is not much better than Derek Anderson, and that is disheartening in a way that drains all hope from the situation. The guy is 27 years old as well. Are we really going to wait for him to "develop" ? AT 27 YEARS OLD!!!!! The situation, and Kolb's play is a mess right now, and I have a hard time having the patience to say that he will get better at 27 years old, and with ?4? years in the league.

2. Skelton - 23 years old, and wins football games. I could care less how, but he does it. I love his composure, and how the situation and game is "not too big for him". He has a great arm, great size, is tough, and is more mobile than he looks. Not to mention when he does move, it is productive. Skelton is the kind of QB that you want to wait for, and it makes sense that the Cardinals are "developing" Skelton. He is their pick, a rookie last year, a low round pick, and a next-to-nothing salary. Those are the kinds of QB's you "develop".


The question is, at the age of 27 will Skelton be better than Kolb ?

I think so, and thus if this team is going to be a 2-6 train wreck then put the QB you want to, and should be developing in the games.

Kolb, his millions, his hype, and everything that came with him has had his chance over the last 7 games to prove something. Yeah, he only has had 7 games but in each of those games, an average performance would have produced 2 or 3 wins. Thus earned him the right to stay at the QB. But, that didn't happen, Kolb has been DREADFUL, and has been a huge part in many of our close losses.


My money is on John Skelton. Even if he did pull a double deuce last game. Liked him last year, and was all for bringing in an aging vet to play while Skelton developed.

:iwin:

 

[Stout]

This should not even be a discussion. Believe me, I understand Kolb has showed almost nothing, however...

I don't understand how anyone can reasonably think that we would trade a number 2 and a bonafide starter for a QB, and give him only 7 games to prove himself.

Everybody loves the backup QB, until he plays. At which point, someone else is the backup QB.

I don't think we should give up on Kolb yet, but I feel that he will be pretty worthless this season. Sadly, he needs a full offseason to get his feet under him in this offense. This fact will kill our chances at drafting a quality QB, and that sucks, but such is life.

 

[FArting]

Brock Osweiler

 

[Black Jesus]

Brock Osweiler

LOL, Foles is a better pro prospect that Osweiler's goofy ass

 

[Black Jesus]

Do we only have 74 active members on this board?!

Really curious here. Cause I wouldn't be sad if we cut Kolb... Sunk Cost.

 

[az1965]

Skelton

 

[WildBB]

When it comes to this situation I am split.


1. Kolb - No doubt 7 games is not enough to condemn the guy. Yet, I am sizing up the shackles for the guy. It is disheartening to see a QB miss wide open WR's when under no pressure. He doesn't seem to have any composure. He seems to be too frantic, and emotional. Not to mention I am very, very dissappointed with his arm strength. He doesn't seem to know how to read a defense. He is was supposed to come to this organization more polished, and more of a "right now" solution. Look at the record, and the stats. He is not much better than Derek Anderson, and that is disheartening in a way that drains all hope from the situation. The guy is 27 years old as well. Are we really going to wait for him to "develop" ? AT 27 YEARS OLD!!!!! The situation, and Kolb's play is a mess right now, and I have a hard time having the patience to say that he will get better at 27 years old, and with ?4? years in the league.

2. Skelton - 23 years old, and wins football games. I could care less how, but he does it. I love his composure, and how the situation and game is "not too big for him". He has a great arm, great size, is tough, and is more mobile than he looks. Not to mention when he does move, it is productive. Skelton is the kind of QB that you want to wait for, and it makes sense that the Cardinals are "developing" Skelton. He is their pick, a rookie last year, a low round pick, and a next-to-nothing salary. Those are the kinds of QB's you "develop".


The question is, at the age of 27 will Skelton be better than Kolb ?

I think so, and thus if this team is going to be a 2-6 train wreck then put the QB you want to, and should be developing in the games.

Kolb, his millions, his hype, and everything that came with him has had his chance over the last 7 games to prove something. Yeah, he only has had 7 games but in each of those games, an average performance would have produced 2 or 3 wins. Thus earned him the right to stay at the QB. But, that didn't happen, Kolb has been DREADFUL, and has been a huge part in many of our close losses.


My money is on John Skelton. Even if he did pull a double deuce last game. Liked him last year, and was all for bringing in an aging vet to play while Skelton developed.

:iwin:

Nice.

It shouldn't be about who got the $$ at this point!

 

[Bodha]

Kolb is the one getting paid, so hes the one who needs to play. This season has turned into one long OTA for this team for next season.

Id really like to see as many young guys out there as possible now, getting ready for nexy year. Let Kolb work out his issues now, that way he wont have anymore excuses in the future.


Also, A win doesnt mean we played well. That Rams game was horrible. Skelton wasnt much better than Kolb. His only noticeable upside was his ability to stand in the pocket, otherwise theres really no glaring superiority in Skelton.

 

[az1965]

Kolb is the one getting paid, so hes the one who needs to play. This season has turned into one long OTA for this team for next season.

So you play folks based on $$????

 

[az1965]

Also, A win doesnt mean we played well. That Rams game was horrible. Skelton wasnt much better than Kolb. His only noticeable upside was his ability to stand in the pocket, otherwise theres really no glaring superiority in Skelton.

Skelton
- Has better pocket presence
- Has better foot work
- Has better QB mechanics
- Doesn't run scared
- Doesn't lock on receivers (Andre Roberts suddenly became alive, hmm... he spread the ball nicely)
- Doesn't take 17-18 yards sacks
- Has more arm strength
- Has poise
- Has composure
- Had had no training camp (was injured) and just one week of practice with the first team before past week game and it showed. He needs more rep.

Not saying Skelton is the next Joe Montana or Aaron Rodgers (maybe he will eventually become one), but right now he is still too raw. He should get rest of the games. I have no confidence in Kolb and believe little upside based on what I have seen out of Kolb so far in seven games.

Also, I can bet Kolb would have caused the two safeties as well, however, not due to sacks in the end zone, but by dropping back so far out that he steps out of bounds the far end of the end zone.

 

[az1965]

General thoughts on Skelton. Coach Ken Whisenhunt qualified praise for John Skelton by saying the Cardinals' backup quarterback missed some basic plays. Whisenhunt would know all the particulars. my general feel watching the game was that Skelton seemed more comfortable than injured starter Kevin Kolb. A second-and-9 play early in the third quarter stood out. The Cardinals lined up in an offset-I formation with base personnel. The Rams rushed six and got immediate pressure with safety Quintin Mikell. Skelton dodged Mikell, moved purposefully to his left and threw a perfect touch pass to Roberts between defenders. Roberts dropped the ball or else this would have been a first down. A delay penalty set up third-and-14, but Skelton kept his poise, firing another perfect pass, this one to Doucet for a first down. Skelton has 48 yards on three attempts when facing third-and-11 or longer. Kolb has 95 yards on 19 such attempts.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Skelton has 48 yards on three attempts when facing third-and-11 or longer. Kolb has 95 yards on 19 such attempts.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest

AKA Kolb is anything but clutch. Big plays, like converting on 3rd and 11, are essential to winning, and Kolb has never shown the ability to come through in key moments.

 

[Bodha]

So you play folks based on $$????

No, but this season is a special exception. Kolbs 1st year + the season is over 8 games in. Here on out should be treated like practice IMO, get something out of this year - that being being ready for next year.

If next year Kolb is still awful, with what should be a vastly improved Oline with, probably, Matt Kalil in at LT and a few other subtractions/additions, I will judge based on play. If at that time Kelton is better, then play Skelton.

but this season is sort of a vacuum scenario, cant be applied to a normal season since this one is certainly different than most.

Skelton
- Has better pocket presenceA
- Has better foot workB
- Has better QB mechanicsB
- Doesn't run scared A
- Doesn't lock on receivers D
- Doesn't take 17-18 yards sacksA
- Has more arm strengthC
- Has poiseA
- Has composureA
- Had had no training camp (was injured) and just one week of practice with the first team before past week game and it showed. He needs more rep.D

.

This list seems to have various issues that fall into only a few categories. Example: "Running scared",and "no pocket presence" precludes "takes alot of sacks". They are all intertwined with each other, not really major separate issues.

I agree with your points. If it mattered, Id start Skelton. But Kolb is here to stay, and Id like to use the remainder of this abysmal season to work out the kinks of this team. That means letting Kolb get the bulk of the work and figure out what he needs to do so this season doesnt happen again. And, as i said, Id like to see the youngsters out there as much as possible. All of them in as much as possible because even though this season has been a trainwreck, its been a valuable learning experience. Id rather have Patrick Peterson with a year under his belt when we are making a legit push for the playoffs, than had it been this year, going into the playoffs with a green PP. From what weve seen, PP and Acho (and of course Daryl Washington) are going to forces on this defense someday. Not to mention pleasant suprises like David Carter, Sherman and flashes of talent in Housler.

 

[Phrazbit]

I agree with your points. If it mattered, Id start Skelton. But Kolb is here to stay, and Id like to use the remainder of this abysmal season to work out the kinks of this team.

Wait... so if we were contending for something you'd start Skelton because you admit he gives them a better chance to win, but since we have nothing to play for we should start Kolb... who has lower potential and is OLDER than Skelton? If Skelton gives them the better chance now and he is younger AND has better tools then it stands to reason he also gives them a better chance next year.

Your line of thinking makes no sense.

It does not matter what we gave up for him, or how much he is being paid. If you bought a house for 300k only to discover it has burned to the ground would you still live in it? NO!

That means letting Kolb get the bulk of the work and figure out what he needs to do so this season doesnt happen again. .

Not making Kolb the starting QB would be a great way to make sure this season doesnt happen again.

 

[Bodha]

Wait... so if we were contending for something you'd start Skelton because you admit he gives them a better chance to win, but since we have nothing to play for we should start Kolb... who has lower potential and is OLDER than Skelton? If Skelton gives them the better chance now and he is younger AND has better tools then it stands to reason he also gives them a better chance next year.

Kolb has higher potential, and thats why we traded for him. If anyone thought Skelton was the future of this team, then Kolb wouldnt be here. Everything your saying about skelton being superior right now is correct, but thats right now. Whos to say, with time, Kolb doesnt far surpass (and he should) Skelton? The remainder of this season should be used to help Kolb reach the potential many feel he possesses. You cant grow if you dont play. Maybe next year Kolb is a whole new person and lights the field up.

1 season doesnt illustrate ability. Philip Rivers is having a terrible year, and if you didnt know otherwise, would say Bench this guy, hes garbage. Rivers is one of the best QBs in the league, these things happen. Kolb is on a new team, in a new system. Like I said, the remainder of this year should go towards him learning and growing, and so maybe next year he is better prepared to play.

It does not matter what we gave up for him, or how much he is being paid.

Easy for you to say, you arent the one cutting the checks.

If you bought a house for 300k only to discover it has burned to the ground would you still live in it? NO!

This analogy makes literally no sense.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I voted Kolb. You don't give up on an investment of that nature in 8 games behind a crappy OL. I give through mid-next year. If he's struggling then bench him. Skelton isn't going anywhere and will still be developing. It took Warner two or three years to thrive in the offense, why not give Kolb the same oppurtunity. Plus, Warner had some real stinkers at times with about 6 TO's and he turned it around. His first 3 years in Arizona, he never had a passer rating above 90 and had 44 TD's to 45 TO's.

Warners first 8 games:
Cards record 2-6
passer rating 86.5

 

[Mitch]

I voted Kolb. You don't give up on an investment of that nature in 8 games behind a crappy OL. I give through mid-next year. If he's struggling then bench him. Skelton isn't going anywhere and will still be developing. It took Warner two or three years to thrive in the offense, why not give Kolb the same oppurtunity. Plus, Warner had some real stinkers at times with about 6 TO's and he turned it around. His first 3 years in Arizona, he never had a passer rating above 90 and had 44 TD's to 45 TO's.

Warners first 8 games:
Cards record 2-6
passer rating 86.5

Warner never had an issue with toughness or lack of poise.

Plus you are talking about Denny Green's "real stinker" offense.

The comparison is moot.

 

[Duckjake]

I voted Kolb. You don't give up on an investment of that nature in 8 games behind a crappy OL. I give through mid-next year. If he's struggling then bench him. Skelton isn't going anywhere and will still be developing. It took Warner two or three years to thrive in the offense, why not give Kolb the same oppurtunity. Plus, Warner had some real stinkers at times with about 6 TO's and he turned it around. His first 3 years in Arizona, he never had a passer rating above 90 and had 44 TD's to 45 TO's.

Warners first 8 games:
Cards record 2-6
passer rating 86.5

It took Warner less than half a season to thrive with Whisenhunt. His first game under CKW Kurt had a passer rating of 150.0! In 2007 Warner had 8 games 99 or higher passer rating. Of course we all know he almost set the franchise record for TD passes in a season with 27 and the most important thing is he didn't get worse every game.

He didn't do too bad in Green's either just couldn't win. Over 64% completion rate both 05 and 06 and 7.2 ypa in "05 and 7.6 in '06.

 

[Mulli]

Hey, why didn't the Cards ever bring in better QB competition for Plummer? Dave Brown, come on?!?