KTAR reporting we acquired Adam Dunn for prospects

[coyoteshockeyfan]

The only guys of note (besides Scherzer) on the 40 man roster are Owings and Josh Whitesell, I wouldn't be surprised if one is in the deal.

Regarding batting average, Mao has this one nailed. While I wouldn't call it useless as even singles are generally better than walks, it is far too incomplete and limited of a stat to use as a sole measure for success (or even a major measure) like some still do.

 

[AZZenny]

I like my average, actually. I also picked Pedroia over Drew, and All-star Pedroia is in the top 5 in the AL in about 3 categories; I never liked Drew and still think he's a very average player who gets a free pass for some reason.

I stuck with Chris Snyder and Conor and Valverde and Webb (yes, even he was viewed impatiently his second year), whereas I never was wild about Tracy, and never liked Lyons.

In fact, when put on the spot, I remember saying Conor would be a wonderful batter with his eye and discipline, and will grow to some power but never be a HR guy, but that CQ would be the real star.

To be fair, I wasn't wild about Chris Young and thought his contract was premature. I just think he'll be more like last year than this year, over time. And I'm sticking with Mark Reynolds, but not with the same enthusiasm I had for Conor or Carlos, of course. And that's assuming Melvin doesn't screw him up too badly.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I like my average, actually. I also picked Pedroia over Drew, and All-star Pedroia is in the top 5 in the AL in about 3 categories; I never liked Drew and still think he's a very average player who gets a free pass for some reason.

I stuck with Chris Snyder and Conor and Valverde and Webb (yes, even he was viewed impatiently his second year), whereas I never was wild about Tracy, and never liked Lyons.

In fact, when put on the spot, I remember saying Conor would be a wonderful batter with his eye and discipline, and will grow to some power but never be a HR guy, but that CQ would be the real star.

To be fair, I wasn't wild about Chris Young and thought his contract was premature. I just think he'll be more like last year than this year, over time. And I'm sticking with Mark Reynolds, but not with the same enthusiasm I had for Conor or Carlos, of course. And that's assuming Melvin doesn't screw him up too badly.

Well... can't argue with much of that at all... Not sure what your day job is but you may want to explore a western regional talent scout position for the team - some extra coin never hurts and us fans would most likey be quite indebted to you!!

 

[Dback Jon]

I like my average, actually. I also picked Pedroia over Drew, and All-star Pedroia is in the top 5 in the AL in about 3 categories; I never liked Drew and still think he's a very average player who gets a free pass for some reason.

So there is a huge difference between Drew and Pedroia, overall?

 

[82CardsGrad]

So there is a huge difference between Drew and Pedroia, overall?

Yup.. in the most crucial areas for a ss and/or 2b...

They have both played essential 1 1/2 full seasons and:

Pedroia:

Batting Average: .306
OBP: .362
HR's: 20
RBI's: 110
SLG %: .436

Drew:

Batting Average: .267
OBP: .323
HR's: 31
RBI's: 131
SLG %: .437


Not to mention the intangible qualities Pedroia has over Drew... Pedroia is a natural leader... Drew disappears more often than not...

 

[Dback Jon]

Yup.. in the most crucial areas for a ss and/or 2b...

They have both played essential 1 1/2 full seasons and:

Pedroia:

Batting Average: .306
OBP: .362
HR's: 20
RBI's: 110
SLG %: .436

Drew:

Batting Average: .267
OBP: .323
HR's: 31
RBI's: 131
SLG %: .437


Not to mention the intangible qualities Pedroia has over Drew... Pedroia is a natural leader... Drew disappears more often than not...

I see you highlighted the areas that support that. I am not arguing that Pedroia has performed better, but not to the great difference you and Zenny are saying.

Drew has more power - SLG% this year is 25 points higher. Drew has more homers, far more triples, in 50 less AB's. Both walk about the same rate. Drew hasn't been running as much this year, which the whole team isn't doing.
Drew strikes out more, but offsets that by grounding into a third of the double plays that Pedroia does.

 

[ajcardfan]

I see you highlighted the areas that support that. I am not arguing that Pedroia has performed better, but not to the great difference you and Zenny are saying.

Drew has more power - SLG% this year is 25 points higher. Drew has more homers, far more triples, in 50 less AB's. Both walk about the same rate. Drew hasn't been running as much this year, which the whole team isn't doing.
Drew strikes out more, but offsets that by grounding into a third of the double plays that Pedroia does.

Keep the numbers, and reverse the franchises, and Drew is a bigger name nationally than Pedroia.

 

[Dback Jon]

Keep the numbers, and reverse the franchises, and Drew is a bigger name nationally than Pedroia.

I am glad someone said that, because I agree. There is not THAT much difference, IMHO, between the two to warrant the slobbering love for Pedroia, other than he is a Red Sux.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Like the trade it really brings the hr power into our line up hopefully with a few better players around him his avg can raise a little higher that is the only one thing I don't like bout Dunn.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I see you highlighted the areas that support that. I am not arguing that Pedroia has performed better, but not to the great difference you and Zenny are saying.

Drew has more power - SLG% this year is 25 points higher. Drew has more homers, far more triples, in 50 less AB's. Both walk about the same rate. Drew hasn't been running as much this year, which the whole team isn't doing.
Drew strikes out more, but offsets that by grounding into a third of the double plays that Pedroia does.

So I'll continue to hold firm to my opinion - one that seems to work very well for the successful teams over the years, in that at the CF, SS and 2B positions, the important stats are AVG and OBP, and NOT power numbers... This is all the more true when the players filling these positions are on teams that don't have other players filling other needed offensive stats like AVG and OBP - uh, like the D-Backs... Which brings it full circle to the reasons why the D-backs don't have other players picking up the slack in AVG and OBP... Young has trapped them into believing, thus preventing them from making the move they really need to make. They simply need to take a very serious shot at obtaining the prototypical CF, or else...

Lastly, I like Drew... But if I had to choose (they don't even play the same position...), I would take Pedroia and his numbers over Drew every day of the week and twice on Sunday!

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Drew hits .273/.357/.473 with RISP (.303/.359/.562 in 2008). Not bad for somebody who "disappears." In contrast, Pedroia hits .259/.327/.361 with RISP (career). The Drew vs. Pedroia debate isn't going to be settled any time soon, as they both look like they are headed towards fine careers. For the record, I put my faith in the league's scouts who had Drew as the best player in his draft, and would have went #1 overall if San Diego didn't go cheap (thanks again, Padres!).

 

[Dback Jon]

Drew hits .273/.357/.473 with RISP (.303/.359/.562 in 2008). Not bad for somebody who "disappears." In contrast, Pedroia hits .259/.327/.361 with RISP (career). The Drew vs. Pedroia debate isn't going to be settled any time soon, as they both look like they are headed towards fine careers. For the record, I put my faith in the league's scouts who had Drew as the best player in his draft, and would have went #1 overall if San Diego didn't go cheap (thanks again, Padres!).

So you are showing that in the CLUTCH, Drew is far better than golden-boy Pedroia? Those stats must be wrong.

Pedroia only hitting .259 with RISP? Too low for a 2nd-baseman - how do the RedSux win any games?

 

[HooverDam]

Oh man... can't get into the whole discussion again... It's been proven time and again that most successful teams honor the tradition of possessing a high average, high OBP Centerfielder... And over the past decade, this has also shifted to the SS and 2B positions...
The power, lower average positions remain 3B, 1B, RF... It's just the way baseball is...
The B-backs are flawed in that Young seems incapable of hitting above .240, and can't get his OBP above .320... He is the perfect trap for a team like the d-backs who possess some of the best pitching the game today, and Young is young enough and does just enough to make you say "hmmmm" - maybe... just maybe...
The d-backs will always find it very difficult to win consistently with Young as their everyday CF...

This is just a horrible post. Its been proven time and time again? By whom? In what publication? Sources please? If you aren't going to source such outlandish claims, at least explain your reasoning. Your argument seems to be 'it just is'. What does it matter what position a player plays relative to his position in the field? Who cares if you have a Catcher whos a superstar slugger who hits for a low average, or a Short stop who gets on base a lot but has no power, or whatever. The players position is only tangentially related to what he does at the plate. That correlation comes from the body types of a certain defensive position generally leading to certain types of hitters, but thats about the extent of it.

So I'll continue to hold firm to my opinion - one that seems to work very well for the successful teams over the years, in that at the CF, SS and 2B positions, the important stats are AVG and OBP, and NOT power numbers

Why? Back this up with SOMETHING. This is total garbage, has no numbers or logic behind it. If Drew was in a lineup like the one Pedroia has been in, who knows what his numbers would be, so lets stop with the silly comparisons, they're both fine young players.

 

[AZZenny]

Well, let's see.
Last year, Pedroia was AL Rookie of the Year. Drew wasn't in the running.

This season, Pedroia is an all-star, Drew wasn't even a murmur.

Pedro is in the top 5 in the AL in runs (81) hits (152) and Doubles (35). Drew 62, 123, 26. Total bases they are close - Pedroia 219, Drew 211.

Pedroia .315 BA, .361 OBP, .454 SLG, .815 OPS;
Drew .280, .319, .481, .800.
Pedroia 10 HR, Drew 14. Pedroia 53 rbi, Drew 48.
Pedroia 32BB/40K, Drew 26BB/76K. Pedroia 12 GDP, Drew 4 GDP. (That doesn't actually even out the outs.)
Pedroia fldg. pct .991, 5 E (15 career E) and Drew .977, 8 E, 30 career E (but even I assume last year was an anomaly.)

Pedroia $475,000 a year. Drew $1,500,000 a year.

So clear edge to Pedroia -- there's enough differences in his favor, not to mention the clubhouse role and sheer hustle, that personally I would take Pedroia every time.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Well, let's see.
Last year, Pedroia was AL Rookie of the Year. Drew wasn't in the running.

This season, Pedroia is an all-star, Drew wasn't even a murmur.

Pedro is in the top 5 in the AL in runs (81) hits (152) and Doubles (35). Drew 62, 123, 26. Total bases they are close - Pedroia 219, Drew 211.

Pedroia .315 BA, .361 OBP, .454 SLG, .815 OPS;
Drew .280, .319, .481, .800.
Pedroia 10 HR, Drew 14. Pedroia 53 rbi, Drew 48.
Pedroia 32BB/40K, Drew 26BB/76K. Pedroia 12 GDP, Drew 4 GDP. (That doesn't actually even out the outs.)
Pedroia fldg. pct .991, 5 E (15 career E) and Drew .977, 8 E, 30 career E (but even I assume last year was an anomaly.)

Pedroia $475,000 a year. Drew $1,500,000 a year.

So clear edge to Pedroia -- there's enough differences in his favor, not to mention the clubhouse role and sheer hustle, that personally I would take Pedroia every time.

Statistically it's closer than you think, probably about equal when you factor in that Drew plays SS while Pedro is a 2B. The All Star comment is of course the most ridiculous part of your post unless you claim the best RF in Chicago is soon-to-be-benched Kosuke Fukudome over MVP candidate Jermaine Dye due to only one of them being included in the classic.

 

[Lefty]

I like this trade. Too bad they won't be able to keep Dunn for next year. It's a two-month rental, so let's hope they get the most out of him.

By the way, Pedroia>Drew.

 

[Dback Jon]

Statistically it's closer than you think, probably about equal when you factor in that Drew plays SS while Pedro is a 2B. The All Star comment is of course the most ridiculous part of your post unless you claim the best RF in Chicago is soon-to-be-benched Kosuke Fukudome over MVP candidate Jermaine Dye due to only one of them being included in the classic.

Damn - agreeing with MTFC on something!!

The ROY and ALL-STAR are closely linked to where DP plays.

 

[Forrestham]

I have always liked Dunn. I wish we hadn't re singed Burns. We could have a good chance to keep him. He is a "Moneyball" player.

 

[overseascardfan]

He is a FA next year correct?

Will he bring in 2 1st rounders like Tex would have if we got him and he left in FA next year?

Not sure how that stuff works.

I read somewhere their might be a problem with offering him arbitration. He is making 13 million a year. If the D'Backs offer him arbitration he could wind up with an arbitration figure of 15 million, I think he wouldn't decline it as he might not get an offer like that anywhere else.

If they re-signed Dunn it would be interesting to see him for a whole year with this lineup. We could get the prospects back that we traded for him if Hudson, Lyon, and Cruz leave.

Although a lineup with a re-signed Hudson & Dunn would be pretty awesome, throw in the re-signing of Webb and we're in great shape long term.

 

[Lefty]

I read somewhere their might be a problem with offering him arbitration. He is making 13 million a year. If the D'Backs offer him arbitration he could wind up with an arbitration figure of 15 million, I think he wouldn't decline it as he might not get an offer like that anywhere else.

If they re-signed Dunn it would be interesting to see him for a whole year with this lineup. We could get the prospects back that we traded for him if Hudson, Lyon, and Cruz leave.

Although a lineup with a re-signed Hudson & Dunn would be pretty awesome, throw in the re-signing of Webb and we're in great shape long term.

They won't sign Dunn unless they trade Byrnes and Eric has a no-trade in his contract.

 

[Skkorpion]

I still hope Romero is not the player sent down. His speed and defense were things we were needing and starting to see. And his batting average was climbing.

Romero made things happen when he got on base, something Young and Upton were unwilling to do.

Dump Salazar or Burke or send Upton down.

 

[overseascardfan]

They won't sign Dunn unless they trade Byrnes and Eric has a no-trade in his contract.

True, but in an interview with Byrnes he indicated that if he wasn't in the D'Backs plans he would consider moving on, but remember this, if we do not offer Dunn arbitration we do not get compensation for him if he leaves.

 

[82CardsGrad]

This is just a horrible post. Its been proven time and time again? By whom? In what publication? Sources please? If you aren't going to source such outlandish claims, at least explain your reasoning. Your argument seems to be 'it just is'. What does it matter what position a player plays relative to his position in the field? Who cares if you have a Catcher whos a superstar slugger who hits for a low average, or a Short stop who gets on base a lot but has no power, or whatever. The players position is only tangentially related to what he does at the plate. That correlation comes from the body types of a certain defensive position generally leading to certain types of hitters, but thats about the extent of it.

Can't believe how many times I've been engaged in this discussion as of late...
I am not about to go and do the research, only to prove what I know to be true..
In baseball, teams that win - a lot - build their team around age-old fundamental truths... Centerfield is always a position that produces the .300 average, high .300's to .400 OBP, speed and defense...
Yes, of course this isn't ALWAYS the case, but generally speaking it is... For the most part, and particularly over the last decade, what has been true for the CF position, is now als true for SS & 2B. Positions like RF, 1B, 3B and C are the power positions - HR's, RBI's and SLG %... Again, this isn't ALWAYS true, but for teams that sustain winning, it is...
What is truly important is to take all of this in the broader context of the make-up of the team as a whole. In the case of the D-backs, sticking with Young produces what? And what does it prevent the team from doing? Upton needs to come back and really has a good deal of pressure on him as someone, somewhere needs to hit for an average and have a respectable OBP... Again, this typically comes from CF, SS & 2B...

Why? Back this up with SOMETHING. This is total garbage, has no numbers or logic behind it. If Drew was in a lineup like the one Pedroia has been in, who knows what his numbers would be, so lets stop with the silly comparisons, they're both fine young players.

If you rerad the thread carefully, you'll see that I had nothing to do with starting the DREW - PEDROIA comparison, and went on to say that I like Drew and that they don't even play the same position...

 

[Zeno]

Isn't Dunn one of the worst fielding LF in the NL if not all of MLB?

How does he hit with runners in scoring position?

I honestly don't know if this will be a good trade or not until we see who the other minor leaguers are.

 

[AZZenny]

Statistically it's closer than you think, probably about equal when you factor in that Drew plays SS while Pedro is a 2B. The All Star comment is of course the most ridiculous part of your post unless you claim the best RF in Chicago is soon-to-be-benched Kosuke Fukudome over MVP candidate Jermaine Dye due to only one of them being included in the classic.

Hey, I was just listing differences, that went both ways. And I know it's fairly close statistically, but those last two numbers aren't peanuts.

At ASU Pedroia was a wonderful, well-respected, team-captain-type of hard nosed player long before the Red Sox were ever involved, so throw that nonsense aside -- he plays above his talent and he makes his teams better.

Drew doubtless has more pure talent. Let's watch and see what comes of it. Maybe he'll end up worth the extra money, but right now, he looks a lot like a $475,000 infielder to me. ;-)

On to Dunn -- we'll have to see how it pans out. It's pretty amazing how many ways that Byrnes contract will reverberate through this organization for the next several years.