Kurt Warner is better the Peyton Manning...

SteelersDave

Newbie
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Posts
43
Reaction score
0
I would take Warner over Manning any day of the week. Manning continuously (aside from 06) chokes in the playoffs, and even the one SB run was not due to his "fantastic play". Regular season means jack if you cannot produce when it counts, and Warner produces when it counts.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
91,325
Reaction score
68,322
I would take Warner over Manning any day of the week. Manning continuously (aside from 06) chokes in the playoffs, and even the one SB run was not due to his "fantastic play". Regular season means jack if you cannot produce when it counts, and Warner produces when it counts.

Manning had a pretty awful run in that playoffs as well, save one incredible half against NE... but sometime's that all you need.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Posts
17
Reaction score
0
Tell the Giants fan that. haha they could have been riding with Warner but they got stuck with Eli "Notgoodatallwithoutplaxico" Manning.

Just My opinion of course.

PS I hate the giants
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
Mokler and IAWarnerfan's heads are about to explode:)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/01/21/chff/index.html

Good read and as much trash as I have given Kurt the second half of this year - There is no denying his post season play throughout his career. He's one of the best of all time.

Glad he's on my side going into Super Sunday;)

This year I think Warner has been the best QB in football. He has had other great years and one of the most accurate QB's of all time. If you look at the situation since Manning came into the league I think he has been the best QB in football. Both should end up in the HOF. They both also happen to be good guys.
 

Spielman

Non-Troll Rams Fan
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Posts
767
Reaction score
0
Tell the Giants fan that. haha they could have been riding with Warner but they got stuck with Eli "Notgoodatallwithoutplaxico" Manning.

Just My opinion of course.

PS I hate the giants

Huge Warner fan here, but I wouldn't say they got the short end of that deal.

They could have come out ahead if they had:
1) Convinced Warner that he desperately needed to work on his grip and gotten him to wear the gloves.
2) Gotten Warner to accept his role in a Tom Coughlin grind-attack offense that gave him no freedom.
3) Improved the hell out of that offensive line that in 2004 would have been less than stellar for a college unit.

#3 obviously happened before long, but I don't know if it would have been soon enough. I was honestly kind of relieved when he got benched in '04 because I was convinced he was going to get killed out there. Not hyperbole killed, either. Actually dead.

#1 eventually happened as well, but at great cost. Anyone who saw the Rams-Cards game in Arizona in 2006 is scarred for life, no matter who they were rooting for.

I dunno if #2 ever would have happened, and even if it did it wouldn't have made the most out of what Warner does best.

Plus, the Giants won a Super Bowl with Eli. No guarantee that happens if you change QBs, even if the QB is actually better.
 

moklerman

Rise from the Ashes III
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Posts
5,318
Reaction score
810
Location
Bakersfield, CA
I agree with Spielman. As disappointing as it is for Warner to have lost all that playing time, he personally needed to hit rock bottom with his third benching to finally realize he had to try something different(gloves). If he doesn't start wearing those, he's still the fumbling nightmare that lost him his job so many times.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Posts
17
Reaction score
0
Huge Warner fan here, but I wouldn't say they got the short end of that deal.

They could have come out ahead if they had:
1) Convinced Warner that he desperately needed to work on his grip and gotten him to wear the gloves.
2) Gotten Warner to accept his role in a Tom Coughlin grind-attack offense that gave him no freedom.
3) Improved the hell out of that offensive line that in 2004 would have been less than stellar for a college unit.

#3 obviously happened before long, but I don't know if it would have been soon enough. I was honestly kind of relieved when he got benched in '04 because I was convinced he was going to get killed out there. Not hyperbole killed, either. Actually dead.

#1 eventually happened as well, but at great cost. Anyone who saw the Rams-Cards game in Arizona in 2006 is scarred for life, no matter who they were rooting for.

I dunno if #2 ever would have happened, and even if it did it wouldn't have made the most out of what Warner does best.

Plus, the Giants won a Super Bowl with Eli. No guarantee that happens if you change QBs, even if the QB is actually better.

Ya my opinion is completely bias on that subject, like I said i hate the Giants haha.
 

D-Dogg

A Whole New World
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Posts
44,920
Reaction score
877
Location
In The End Zone
I love Manning. He's a super computer.

Kurt is incredibly accurate and gutsy...makes great reads (for the most part).

Both are good guys and great QBs. Peyton is better, tho. Sorry.
 

nashman

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 3, 2007
Posts
10,832
Reaction score
7,865
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
Thank you Donald! I love Warner and he has had a great year and great post season success but Peyton is a better QB and when all is said and done maybe go down as the best QB EVER!!! You telling me you would trade Manning for Kurt straight up right now, well after the Superbowl I mean? I would in a heartbeat can you imagine Peyton spreading it around to our receivers.
 

Spielman

Non-Troll Rams Fan
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Posts
767
Reaction score
0
Thank you Donald! I love Warner and he has had a great year and great post season success but Peyton is a better QB and when all is said and done maybe go down as the best QB EVER!!! You telling me you would trade Manning for Kurt straight up right now, well after the Superbowl I mean? I would in a heartbeat can you imagine Peyton spreading it around to our receivers.

There's age to be considered on that question, so it's not a fair one.

Manning's obviously going to have a far better career than Warner, and that puts him further up the charts when you're talking about greatest ever. But he's also had better opportunities.

Do the 1994 draft over again, with all NFL GMs knowing what they know now about Warner's capabilities and he clearly goes in the early first round and becomes somebody's QB of the future with a ton invested in him.

Does he land in a situation like Manning's, with a terrific offensive coordinator like Tom Moore and a team commitment to build around him and give him a good offensive line his whole career? Maybe, maybe not. But in reality, Manning did.

Does Kurt, playing behind generally better lines, avoid the hand injuries that derailed him? Maybe, maybe not. But in reality, he didn't.

Does theoretical Kurt put up the kind of consistent numbers that Manning has, but with better postseason performance? Maybe, maybe not, but I'm not convinced the answer is no.

Manning clearly will have the better career. I'm not entirely certain I wouldn't plump for him as the greatest QB ever right now. But it's impossible to argue that he wasn't given a lot of opportunities that most other QBs, Warner included, just didn't get.

Of course, maybe without adversity, Warner never achieves the greatness that he did. Maybe he needed the grocery-shelving and Arena years to have success. I dunno. But he's done pretty damn well with the chances he's gotten and created for himself.
 

D-Dogg

A Whole New World
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Posts
44,920
Reaction score
877
Location
In The End Zone
Manning clearly will have the better career. I'm not entirely certain I wouldn't plump for him as the greatest QB ever right now. But it's impossible to argue that he wasn't given a lot of opportunities that most other QBs, Warner included, just didn't get.

Of course, maybe without adversity, Warner never achieves the greatness that he did. Maybe he needed the grocery-shelving and Arena years to have success. I dunno. But he's done pretty damn well with the chances he's gotten and created for himself.

You are making some really, really good points.

And yes, I think adversity is what molded Warner into what he is..
 

nashman

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 3, 2007
Posts
10,832
Reaction score
7,865
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
Of course, maybe without adversity, Warner never achieves the greatness that he did. Maybe he needed the grocery-shelving and Arena years to have success. I dunno. But he's done pretty damn well with the chances he's gotten and created for himself.


Thats the key right there the Arena league and the process he went through made him what he is. He was NOT a highly thought of QB out of college for a reason he made himself great later on. Manning was great in college even though no championships and has been great in the NFL and just is a human computer and will go down as the best imo. Championships don't make you a great QB, think most would agree Marino was pretty good. Kurt has a great playoff record and hopes he continues to add to it as a Cardinal, but I would trade him for Manning in a second.
 

Spielman

Non-Troll Rams Fan
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Posts
767
Reaction score
0
Thats the key right there the Arena league and the process he went through made him what he is. He was NOT a highly thought of QB out of college for a reason he made himself great later on.

Yes, because the evaluation of QBs before, during and after college is an exact science, so the reason Warner didn't get much of a chance in college was that he just didn't have the talent. That only came to him in his mid-twenties as a result of stocking grocery shelves, in much the same way that karate came to Daniel-san while he was waxing cars.

Hayden Fry certainly never said to himself, "Jeez, I should have recruited that Warner kid back in 1990. He could have helped us." Nope. The kid just didn't have the talent.

End (probably counterproductive yet strangely satisfying) sarcasm.

In reality, the reason that Warner wasn't highly regarded coming out of college was that he'd gotten very little chance to show what he could do. Manning, on the other hand, was Archie's kid, had his high school completely redesign their offense to build around him, and was recruited by absolutely everyone. Why wouldn't he be?

There's a MASSIVE opportunity gap between those two. Period. Is any of that stuff a problem where Peyton Manning is concerned? No. He's justified the opportunities he got every step along the way. He really is that good. But trace it back to whatever stage you want... Warner never had a shot at the kind of career Peyton did because he didn't have those opportunities.
 
OP
OP
Arizona's Finest

Arizona's Finest

Your My Favorite Mistake
Joined
Jun 11, 2005
Posts
9,709
Reaction score
1
I have never been Warner's biggest backer but Peyton Manning is the most overatted player in today's NFL. Thats why the Tom Brady to Peyton argument is not even comprehensible in my opinion.

LOL. Nashman says "Can you imagine Warner throwing to our recievers?" Yeah actually I can. He has two of the best in Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison. Manning has been given every opportunity and blessing of good fortune of personnel but when it counts in the playoff the numbers speak for themselves.

I can't really debate the Warner vs Manning analogy that this article does because Manning has the longevity, more playoff games played (which says something), and opportunities that Spielman spoke of. And I would trade Warner for Manning only because of the youth factor.

But Tom Brady or Peyton? LOL not even close. In fact now that Tom Terrific has the TD record I am not sure on what grounds that would evenbe an argument.

Peyton's good but when it comes to games that count give me Brady. And Warner for that matter.
 

Cards232

Registered
Joined
Aug 9, 2005
Posts
230
Reaction score
0
I would take Warner in a heartbeat. The following is just one of the reasons why. This was posted by BCEagle on another thread here:

"Kurt Warner has played in 10 playoff games. His teams are 8-2 in those games. In five of those games, his teams trailed or were tied on the last drive, and they scored a TD all five times (4 passing TDs). Warner has a perfect passer rating of 158.3 4 TDs 0 INTs when the playoff game is on the line. No other QB has had this kind of success when the game is on the line -- not Brady, not Manning, not Montana, not Elway .... no one."

When the game is on the line, there has never been a better qb. If one looks at Manning's numbers overall in the post season & especially in crunch time, Warner has ice flowing through his viens, Manning's viens melt like cheap fondue. I like Manning, but given the same circumstances, he's no Warner.
 
Last edited:

Cards232

Registered
Joined
Aug 9, 2005
Posts
230
Reaction score
0
I have never been Warner's biggest backer but Peyton Manning is the most overatted player in today's NFL. Thats why the Tom Brady to Peyton argument is not even comprehensible in my opinion.

LOL. Nashman says "Can you imagine Warner throwing to our recievers?" Yeah actually I can. He has two of the best in Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison. Manning has been given every opportunity and blessing of good fortune of personnel but when it counts in the playoff the numbers speak for themselves.

I can't really debate the Warner vs Manning analogy that this article does because Manning has the longevity, more playoff games played (which says something), and opportunities that Spielman spoke of. And I would trade Warner for Manning only because of the youth factor.

But Tom Brady or Peyton? LOL not even close. In fact now that Tom Terrific has the TD record I am not sure on what grounds that would evenbe an argument.

Peyton's good but when it comes to games that count give me Brady. And Warner for that matter.

Not only does he have Harrison & Wayne, he's had Dallas Clark, great rb's, & consistently one of the best o-lines in the business. Manning would obviously do well here w/ these guys. Would he do as well as Warner? Probably not. Warner thrives on the pocket colapsing around him & making that last second throw. Manning thrives w/ a good pocket like most qb's. That would be the difference.
 

Spielman

Non-Troll Rams Fan
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Posts
767
Reaction score
0
But Tom Brady or Peyton? LOL not even close.

I dunno that I totally agree with you there, but Brady's another example of what I'm talking about.

Brady, at Michigan, played behind Brian Griese, and then battled Drew Henson for the starting job. Looking back, it's obvious to all and sundry that Tom Brady is a much better QB than Brian Griese, and about a million times better than Drew Henson. Why was that not obvious back then? Some of it, I think is certainly that Henson and Griese were better developed earlier than Brady was. But some of it's gotta be opportunity.

You don't think Brian Griese was more highly regarded because of his Dad? Hell, if I'm a coach looking at the son of a guy who won a couple Super Bowls, I'm gonna be affected by that. And Brian... well, he certainly justified the faith Michigan had in him. He played well and helped them win a (co) national championship. Henson, not so much. Brady got far less chance to play than, in retrospect, he deserved. That leads into his being drafted in the 6th round in 2000, instead of the 1st overall that he'd obviously go in hindsight.

It's all about opportunities, particularly at position like QB, where so much of what's important is a lot less obvious than a 40 time. I remember a story from a few years ago where Doug Flutie, attending games at his son's school, noticed that in his opinion, the team's backup QB was a lot better than the starter. He didn't disturb the team, but quietly went to the kid, offered him some coaching, and eventually got him a tryout with a college coach he knew. Kid got a college scholarship without starting a game in high school because his coach didn't recognize talent and he was amazingly fortunate to catch the eye of Doug Flutie.
 

nashman

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 3, 2007
Posts
10,832
Reaction score
7,865
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
Disagree, Manning has had many successful seasons in a much tougher conference! He is the smartest and best QB in the league today! While Warner has had a great season this year he doesn't have the constant success that Peyton has. And Brady we weren't even talking about him but I think the fact that Matt Cassell stepped in and they still won 11 games speaks volumes about how their COACH is great, I don't really believe Brady has the success he has had on another team.
 

moklerman

Rise from the Ashes III
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Posts
5,318
Reaction score
810
Location
Bakersfield, CA
I don't really believe Brady has the success he has had on another team.
This is actually a compliment to Warner if you think about it. Warner's the only one that can be said to have actually excelled with two different NFL teams and with entirely different offenses.
Championships don't make you a great QB,
????!!!!
 

nashman

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 3, 2007
Posts
10,832
Reaction score
7,865
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
No question the Warner is a great QB I never said he wasn't. Doesn't change the fact I think Peyton is better imo. And whats the question....its a pretty clear statement Championships don't make great QB's, sometimes in team sports the better team wins regardless of who their QB is.
 

D-Dogg

A Whole New World
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Posts
44,920
Reaction score
877
Location
In The End Zone
No question the Warner is a great QB I never said he wasn't. Doesn't change the fact I think Peyton is better imo. And whats the question....its a pretty clear statement Championships don't make great QB's, sometimes in team sports the better team wins regardless of who their QB is.

Trent Dilfer is a great QB.
 

PortlandCardFan

Registered User
Joined
Oct 1, 2002
Posts
10,206
Reaction score
4
Location
Portland, OR
I would take a QB that is good enough to get me to the playoffs and lights out during the playoffs than a QB that is lights out during the regular season and chokes in the playoffs. It is a team sport and you play to get to the SB, nothing else matters IMO.
 
Top