KW has finally lost his mind

[DieHardCardFan]

I agree he gets blame but you can't lay everything at his feet. People want ot give Warner and Haley credit for the wins but Whiz only gets credit for the losses.

Did we have a win we can be proud of this year? We lucked into alomost all of them. Whis screwed the pooch big this season. I am not ready to say fire him, but he needs a real reality check. Washed up Steelers players and caoches are not the way to win. And he is not the Offensive guru that he thinks he is. He needs to be humbled and I hope he is. The man has brought me the happiest days I have known as a Cards fan, but he also set the bar and this season is his fault and his fault alone. No way we should have gone into the season with DA doing anything but working on the practice sqaud. And after last years horrible D a change should have been made. Davis stinks and it has not much to do with talent on that side of the ball.

 

[CtCardinals78]

you mean the McNabb that was benched for Rex Grossman or the Marc Bulger who never played a down to my knowledge. Whitehurst just played Seattle to the playoffs. Maybe Faneca and Porter were all that Whiz could ask for with money he was alloted.He supposedly even wanted Bulger but was told no. Who would you have started for Porter and Faneca? Rex Hadnot, he couldn't cut it in Cleveland. He msut have gotten alot better sitting on the bench because everyone assumes he would be better. Do you really think Whiz wanted to go with Lenon over Dansby? A broken down Hayes didn't help matters either.
I'm not saying Whiz was flawless by any means but he was given crap by the FO and they deserve more of the blame than Whisenhunt. I still don't know what the urgency was to trade Boldin, especially with the crappy return they got. A disgruntled Randy Moss netted NE a 3rd rounder mid-season. Dan Williams was playing more and more down the stretch. Big deal if Robinson started. There isn't a NT in the league that doesn't need many plays off. These guys are rookies, hardly any have any significant impact their 1st year, much less start and dominate.

McNabb that was never really given a fair shake by the Shanhan's because Kyle liked Rex from his Houston days. McNabb would be an instant upgrade on this team and there is no doubt in my mind the Cards would be hosting the Saints Sunday had they gotten him.

I am with you cbus, the FO does share some of the blame, but when push came to shove it was Wiz who brought his buddy Grimm in here and he was supposed to make the oline better, not keep the status quo or make things worse. His drafts have sucked for the most part and passing on AP cost this team big time.

His play calling sucks and game management sucked this year. This team is making the same stupid, undisciplined mistakes that they always seem to make. His lack of adjustments this year cost the Cards dearly. Maybe the FO only alloted him a budget, but there's another side of that coin: maybe Wiz told the FO he could get it done with those guys and didn't ask for more (except for the Bulger part)

Bottom line is that going into this season with a castoff from the Browns as your starting QB and backing him up with a 5th round pick from Fordham and an UDFA is about as dumb as dumb gets. Justifying that move by touting the player's moxie and intangibles is laughable. THAT is NOT on the FO. I'm fully admit the shortcomings of this FO, but I think a lot of people need to prepare for the fact that Wiz has a lot to do with this as well. He put certain players on this team on a "short leash" and I certainly hope the powers that be put him on a short leash next season as well.

 

[desertdawg]

McNabb that was never really given a fair shake by the Shanhan's because Kyle liked Rex from his Houston days. McNabb would be an instant upgrade on this team and there is no doubt in my mind the Cards would be hosting the Saints Sunday had they gotten him.

I am with you cbus, the FO does share a fair share of the blame, but when push came to shove it was Wiz who brought his buddy Grimm in here and he was supposed to make the oline better, not keep the status quo or make things worse. His drafts have sucked for the most part and passing on AP cost this team big time.

His play calling sucks and game management sucked this year. This team is making the same stupid, undisciplined mistakes that they always seem to make. His lack of adjustments this year cost the Cards dearly. Maybe the FO only alloted him a budget, but there's another side of that coin: maybe Wiz told the FO he could get it done with those guys and didn't ask for more (except for the Bulger part)

Bottom line is that going into this season with a castoff from the Browns as your starting QB and backing him up with a 5th round pick from Fordham and an UDFA is about as dumb as dumb gets. Justifying that move by touting the player's moxie and intangibles is laughable. THAT is NOT on the FO. I'm fully admit the shortcomings of this FO, but I think a lot of people need to prepare for the fact that Wiz has a lot to do with this as well. He put certain players on this team on a "short leash" and I certainly hope the powers that be put him on a short leash next season as well.

Every thing but the McNaab love.

 

[Duckjake]

4 years and we still have the same pasthetic defense and Ole' blocking.

But its not the coaching?

It was just sickening watching our RBs get hit as soon as they took the handoff today. Or yet another TE running wide open for a TD. Sickening.

 

[desertdawg]

Screen plays crack me up too. I wonder how many yards other teams have gotten on us with their screen plays. Then I'd like to see that number next to the number of yards the Cards have gotten on our offensive screen plays. It has to be hilarious.

 

[bg7brd]

4 years and we still have the same pasthetic defense and Ole' blocking.

But its not the coaching?

It was just sickening watching our RBs get hit as soon as they took the handoff today. Or yet another TE running wide open for a TD. Sickening.

These problems have been around longer than 4 years.

 

[Duckjake]

These problems have been around longer than 4 years.

But Whisenhunt hasn't. Neither have most of the current players.

However, I do understand that franchises continue to put forth the same type football regardless of who is coaching or playing.

 

[cardpa]

I guess I was watching a different game, Gary. What I saw was the 49ers coming after Skelton so fast and furiously that he had such little time to make his reads...on so many plays there were UNTOUCHED rushers.

Tell me how many QBs you know could have staved off that assault.

This one is on Whisenhunt.

He cannot protect a QB for his life...he doesn't chip...he doesn't anticipate, and if you are not Kurt Warner, calling your own "hot reads", you are going to take a beating...not only from the opponents, but from your own head coach.

How about the passes he threaded to Fitz as Fitz was getting bracketed?

He didn't force one pass, thus keeping the team in the game, until the defense performed a total no-show in the second half.

The one interception was a great last second tip by a blocked d-lineman.

While I agree he will need time and grooming...I hope he gets to battle for the starting job next year because in my opinion he's earned it.

Mitch,
I agree with most of this especially the beating not only from your opponent but from your own head coach.

What concerns me about Skelton is I did not really see any improvement from him from one game to the next. Each game seemed like a repeat of the previous game. You could take one game insert it into another and there is no difference.

Skelton has his moments in each game and his low points in each but it never really changed. It was like watching someone plateau at a level and never move from there.

I am not saying he may not get better but the road to better is going to be pretty long and may take several years.

 

[TJ]

kerouac9 Those were all guys that Whis identified and believed could start at the NFL level. All reports were that Whis was absolutely in love with Max Hall's game.

So what your saying is a head coach brings in three QBs a season (roughly) and if each does not somehow contribute, that failure is automatically bestowed on that coach? With that logic, every single coach at any level has epically failed in that respect. Cant develop them all, but the insinuation that Whiz can destroy them is ridiculous and completely baseless.

As for Max Hall, Whis was probably liked his play, but I think it was Hall's intangibles that sold Whiz. But come to find, if you dont have many of the physical tools of a QB, such as the ability to NOT get injured, you cant make it out of one half of football as proven by Hall himself.

So what makes you think that this former TE coach can:

1) Identify a good/great quarterback
2) Develop one?

What does the fact that he was a former TE coach have anything to do about this? You know he was also a special teams coach for a while, right? Are you just trying to impress me with useless trivia? Sounds like it.

The guy was an offensive coordinator for three years in Pittsburgh, so he had to at some point learn about EVERY offensive position and how to supervise those particular position coaches, which would include the quarterback and his coach. Just by observation, he did fine while in that capacity developing Ben Roethlisberger (Offensive ROY, Pro Bowler, 2-time SB champ).

Did any of our quarterbacks get better under Ken Whisenhunt's tutelage? ANY of them? Kurt Warner was marginally better than he was with the Giants, but never approached the heights he had in St. Louis. Reports were that Warner was running his own offense his last two seasons here.

Did you honestly just try and tell me he was marginally better here than he was in New York?

Did you not pay attention to how Kurt's career (and potential HoF candidacy) was revived in 2008? The dude went from a stop gap for Eli Manning at NYG to being an MVP candidate and pro bowl starter, first AZ/PHX Cards QB in the pro bowl that season.

And no the guy was not the offensive coordinator the last two seasons, in which you imply. If you are a good HC or OC, you identify the intelligence of a Warner and let him make certain decisions on his own. Every offensive mastermind has done this. Do you think Bill Walsh called all of the plays for Joe Montana? No. It's all apart of the job detail.

I'm not calling for the guy to be fired, but he's certainly squandered the benefit of the doubt that guys like you and Krang are giving him.

I beg to differ. You sound like in your other rants that you want the guy gone tomorrow. But what you fail to realize is that many successful coaches suffer setbacks throughout their career, especially when there is tremendous turnover the previous offseason. What will define Whiz will be his ability to rebound from this mess. He has proven before he can take a 5-11 team into the Superbowl in two seasons. What's to say he cant do it again?

I do agree with you that the honeymoon period is now over for Whiz. But dont be surprised if the organization gives him two years to fix things. Let's hope it doesnt take that long

 

[Shane]

This benching was meaningless and typical overall board over reaction as per usual. Especially from the thread starter.

Still love ya stout!

 

[Stout]

This benching was meaningless and typical overall board over reaction as per usual. Especially from the thread starter.

Still love ya stout!

*shakes fist* You, you...that's what YOU are!

 

[Krangodnzr]

So what your saying is a head coach brings in three QBs a season (roughly) and if each does not somehow contribute, that failure is automatically bestowed on that coach? With that logic, every single coach at any level has epically failed in that respect. Cant develop them all, but the insinuation that Whiz can destroy them is ridiculous and completely baseless.

As for Max Hall, Whis was probably liked his play, but I think it was Hall's intangibles that sold Whiz. But come to find, if you dont have many of the physical tools of a QB, such as the ability to NOT get injured, you cant make it out of one half of football as proven by Hall himself.
What does the fact that he was a former TE coach have anything to do about this? You know he was also a special teams coach for a while, right? Are you just trying to impress me with useless trivia? Sounds like it.

The guy was an offensive coordinator for three years in Pittsburgh, so he had to at some point learn about EVERY offensive position and how to supervise those particular position coaches, which would include the quarterback and his coach. Just by observation, he did fine while in that capacity developing Ben Roethlisberger (Offensive ROY, Pro Bowler, 2-time SB champ).



Did you honestly just try and tell me he was marginally better here than he was in New York?

Did you not pay attention to how Kurt's career (and potential HoF candidacy) was revived in 2008? The dude went from a stop gap for Eli Manning at NYG to being an MVP candidate and pro bowl starter, first AZ/PHX Cards QB in the pro bowl that season.

And no the guy was not the offensive coordinator the last two seasons, in which you imply. If you are a good HC or OC, you identify the intelligence of a Warner and let him make certain decisions on his own. Every offensive mastermind has done this. Do you think Bill Walsh called all of the plays for Joe Montana? No. It's all apart of the job detail.



I beg to differ. You sound like in your other rants that you want the guy gone tomorrow. But what you fail to realize is that many successful coaches suffer setbacks throughout their career, especially when there is tremendous turnover the previous offseason. What will define Whiz will be his ability to rebound from this mess. He has proven before he can take a 5-11 team into the Superbowl in two seasons. What's to say he cant do it again?

I do agree with you that the honeymoon period is now over for Whiz. But dont be surprised if the organization gives him two years to fix things. Let's hope it doesnt take that long

Slam dunk and one!

Again, as I stated elsewhere, it's very hard to identify a good QB. Look how often even highly touted QBs fail. And look how often guys come from out of nowhere (Brady, Romo, Warner, etc.) to become pretty good NFL QBs. Romo sat on the bench for years while the Cowboys struggled, and when inserted he instantly improved their QB play. Warner bounced around the fringes of the NFL and the Arena league before getting a chance due to a highly rated QB injury (Trent Green).

Max Hall may look great on the practice field, film from college, and preseason games, but you don't know how well he's going to do in games. And Skelton may look worse in practice, but plays better in games. So it's easy to see why Whisenhunt (if you look at it objective) would start Anderson for awhile then go first to Hall, then to Skelton.

I think you're a great poster Kerouac, prolific even, and you add a lot to this board. But at times you're a bit myopic and you act as if creating a good NFL team is formulaic and easy. That's clearly not the case.

Additionally, as smart as a lot of the posters are on this board, Ken Whisenhunt has a much higher football IQ. There are a lot of things he's looking for when watching games that we don't even begin to look for. Example: Nose Tackle position. While B Rob is getting blown of the ball, he's also moving well laterally on running plays, and earlier in the year, better than Dan Williams. That's an important part of playing nose tackle, and Dan Williams was not doing that well earlier in the year. He improved on this, and subsequently started getting more snaps.

 

[kerouac9]

Slam dunk and one!

Again, as I stated elsewhere, it's very hard to identify a good QB. Look how often even highly touted QBs fail. And look how often guys come from out of nowhere (Brady, Romo, Warner, etc.) to become pretty good NFL QBs. Romo sat on the bench for years while the Cowboys struggled, and when inserted he instantly improved their QB play. Warner bounced around the fringes of the NFL and the Arena league before getting a chance due to a highly rated QB injury (Trent Green).

Max Hall may look great on the practice field, film from college, and preseason games, but you don't know how well he's going to do in games. And Skelton may look worse in practice, but plays better in games. So it's easy to see why Whisenhunt (if you look at it objective) would start Anderson for awhile then go first to Hall, then to Skelton.

I think you're a great poster Kerouac, prolific even, and you add a lot to this board. But at times you're a bit myopic and you act as if creating a good NFL team is formulaic and easy. That's clearly not the case.

Additionally, as smart as a lot of the posters are on this board, Ken Whisenhunt has a much higher football IQ. There are a lot of things he's looking for when watching games that we don't even begin to look for. Example: Nose Tackle position. While B Rob is getting blown of the ball, he's also moving well laterally on running plays, and earlier in the year, better than Dan Williams. That's an important part of playing nose tackle, and Dan Williams was not doing that well earlier in the year. He improved on this, and subsequently started getting more snaps.

Romo didn't come out of nowhere. He was highly regarded as a UDFA. I remember hearing that Dave McGinnis desperately wanted him after coaching him at the Senior Bowl. Yes, there are guys like Romo who come out of nowhere, but it's not like it's a huge reach to think that Max Hall, who looked terrible in training camp, was bad against future air conditioner repair men in the preseason, and was terrible when the games started counting, was going to be a good NFL QB.

Do I expect my NFL HC to identify with precision future All Pro QBs? No. But do I expect my NFL HC not to promote a UDFA as the second coming of Kurt Warner and then run him out there and have him look slightly better than I would have? Yes. Where did you think that Peter King story on Max Hall came from? The sky?

I've said multiple times that Whisenhunt deserves a mulligan on this season provided that he gets rid of the cult of personality he has working under him and getting some alternative voices to help provide some different experiences and perspective to the team.

I don't know how you can pretend that Derek Anderson being bad came out of nowhere. Max Hall being bad came out of nowhere. I was here saying it from the beginning, and I wasn't the only one.

Would it be easier to ask you what decisions Whis made this season that you think worked out? That list is probably shorter.

 

[Duckjake]

Romo didn't come out of nowhere. He was highly regarded as a UDFA. I remember hearing that Dave McGinnis desperately wanted him after coaching him at the Senior Bowl. Yes, there are guys like Romo who come out of nowhere, but it's not like it's a huge reach to think that Max Hall, who looked terrible in training camp, was bad against future air conditioner repair men in the preseason, and was terrible when the games started counting, was going to be a good NFL QB.

Do I expect my NFL HC to identify with precision future All Pro QBs? No. But do I expect my NFL HC not to promote a UDFA as the second coming of Kurt Warner and then run him out there and have him look slightly better than I would have? Yes. Where did you think that Peter King story on Max Hall came from? The sky?

I've said multiple times that Whisenhunt deserves a mulligan on this season provided that he gets rid of the cult of personality he has working under him and getting some alternative voices to help provide some different experiences and perspective to the team.

I don't know how you can pretend that Derek Anderson being bad came out of nowhere. Max Hall being bad came out of nowhere. I was here saying it from the beginning, and I wasn't the only one.

Would it be easier to ask you what decisions Whis made this season that you think worked out? That list is probably shorter.

Awesome post K9

 

[Shane]

Romo didn't come out of nowhere. He was highly regarded as a UDFA.

Is that even remotely possible? Highly regarded as an UDFA at QB position? I mean come on man really?

 

[kerouac9]

Is that even remotely possible? Highly regarded as an UDFA at QB position? I mean come on man really?

Dude, it's true. There are teams who pay more money for UDFA signing bonuses than they do for 7th round picks. Romo was coveted as a UDFA and decided that he wanted to be a Cowboy. Look it up.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Dude, it's true. There are teams who pay more money for UDFA signing bonuses than they do for 7th round picks. Romo was coveted as a UDFA and decided that he wanted to be a Cowboy. Look it up.

That's like saying a chick that wasn't asked to the Senior Prom was highly regarded by guys around the high school. She still wasn't good enough to get a date, and Romo still wasn't viewed as even good enough to drop a very late 7th round pick on.

 

[THESMEL]

you think?

You think this is bad Wait until Matt leinart is a pro bowl QB inside the division for the next few years! Seattle or the Niners need him! Got him on the cheap too!

Whis is throeing all the players under bus in this morning presser, He's tired of ruining them one at a time! Freaking tooll!

When every unit is the worse in the NFL all over the field, It aint the players! Its the HC and GM.

This I'm sure of! Kurt or no Kurt, too much is laid on KW, we had the pieces in placre to win this awful division in spite of Whiz.

Whiz still takes no responsibility, It sucks to be a Cards player right now, I feel for them, and understand the mass exodus worse than last years about to happen!

If he would have only called 40% runs we would have won this division, If He started beanie the Real Back.

Dude, it's true. There are teams who pay more money for UDFA signing bonuses than they do for 7th round picks. Romo was coveted as a UDFA and decided that he wanted to be a Cowboy. Look it up.

 

[Shane]

Dude, it's true. There are teams who pay more money for UDFA signing bonuses than they do for 7th round picks. Romo was coveted as a UDFA and decided that he wanted to be a Cowboy. Look it up.

Sorry dude. Being highly regarded and as an UDFA isnt highly regarded at all. It just isnt. ESPECIALLY for a QB.

 

[Shane]

That's like saying a chick that wasn't asked to the Senior Prom was highly regarded by guys around the high school. She still wasn't good enough to get a date, and Romo still wasn't viewed as even good enough to drop a very late 7th round pick on.

Yup.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Romo didn't come out of nowhere. He was highly regarded as a UDFA. I remember hearing that Dave McGinnis desperately wanted him after coaching him at the Senior Bowl. Yes, there are guys like Romo who come out of nowhere, but it's not like it's a huge reach to think that Max Hall, who looked terrible in training camp, was bad against future air conditioner repair men in the preseason, and was terrible when the games started counting, was going to be a good NFL QB.

Max Hall was ALSO considered a hot UDFA as well. I disagree that Max Hall was bad in the preseason, the last game he looked very good.

Do I expect my NFL HC to identify with precision future All Pro QBs? No. But do I expect my NFL HC not to promote a UDFA as the second coming of Kurt Warner and then run him out there and have him look slightly better than I would have? Yes. Where did you think that Peter King story on Max Hall came from? The sky?

Whisenhunt did not plant the Max Hall enthusiasm, that's patently absurd that you claim that. There were quite a few members of the media AND NFL talent evaluators that liked Max Hall quite a bit. I think you're revising the truth to fit your preconceived notions a bit here.

And I don't think Whisenhunt drummed up perceptions, that was the media and the fan base.

I've said multiple times that Whisenhunt deserves a mulligan on this season provided that he gets rid of the cult of personality he has working under him and getting some alternative voices to help provide some different experiences and perspective to the team.

And if you listen to the cryptic hints that Whisenhunt dropped in his postseason presser, it sounds like he understands this.

From Urbans latest blog:
http://blog.azcardinals.com/2011/01/03/whiz-talks-change/

Very interesting comment from Whisenhunt about how “sometimes you get emotionally attached to players and what they have done for you in the past.”

“You may have a tendency to overlook certain things … When you win games, sometimes you let things slip a little bit, ‘OK, he didn’t make this play, he’ll make it the next time.’ That builds up over time and you start evaluating players based on what you remember them doing a year or two or three or four ago and maybe not candidly assessing where they are right now. That’s an easy trap to fall into … and you have to work past that.

So be more cold-hearted? “There’s a fine line there.”

As for players who underachieved this season, that has to change. “Their goodwill is used up.” And as for the “star” players, “Some of our best players didn’t play at their best.”

Let the speculation begin on which players about whom he is speaking.

I know this, that safety Adrian Wilson said while some players cared, some didn’t. He said sometimes, it was “hidden” to many. Asked if he could still see it, Wilson said “I’ve been here 10 years. I’ve seen a lot of bull(bleep).”

I don't know how you can pretend that Derek Anderson being bad came out of nowhere. Max Hall being bad came out of nowhere. I was here saying it from the beginning, and I wasn't the only one.

I never HAVE claimed that we didn't know that Derrick Anderson was probably going to be terrible, but in a slight defense of the decision Derrick Anderson DID go to a Pro Bowl. Obviously from the offseason grumblings, we knew that a number of veterans (my guess Fitz and the receivers) didn't trust Leinart. While that seemed speculative or even false at the time, it makes more sense in light of what we know now.

As far as trumping up your claim that Max Hall was going to be bad, that's not a huge reach and doesn't make you look smart. Betting against a UDFA being a good starting QB will win you bets 99.999999999% of the time.

Would it be easier to ask you what decisions Whis made this season that you think worked out? That list is probably shorter.

Well I'm at a loss to give you a good list either to be honest, and I'm not going to fake the funk and give you a bullcrap list.

The fulcrum of this season was the QB play, and Whisenhunt and the front office struck out on the most important decision. I add the front office because they strangely AREN'T being held accountable even though we've had a litany of personnel failures this past offseason and in many others over the Rod Graves era.

That's the difference between me and you though: You still insist on putting everything on Whisenhunt, while I'm looking at the overall failures. I seriously doubt Whisenhunt wanted an 80 million dollar payroll that the ownership/front office gave him. But I guess you and your ilk want to blame everything on Whisenhunt so you might as well blame that on him too

 

[kerouac9]

That's like saying a chick that wasn't asked to the Senior Prom was highly regarded by guys around the high school. She still wasn't good enough to get a date, and Romo still wasn't viewed as even good enough to drop a very late 7th round pick on.

Whatever. Teams have various reasons to make their investments in draft picks. Usually teams will draft a player in the late rounds because they can expect to induce a different player to come as a UDFA.

That's why it was surprising to hear that Max Hall only got like a $3000 singing bonus as a UDFA. According to Romo's wikipedia page (I know), he had interest from Dallas and from Shanahan in Denver: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Romo

Here's a more legitimate source: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10195180

 

[Shane]

Whatever. Teams have various reasons to make their investments in draft picks. Usually teams will draft a player in the late rounds because they can expect to induce a different player to come as a UDFA.

That's why it was surprising to hear that Max Hall only got like a $3000 singing bonus as a UDFA. According to Romo's wikipedia page (I know), he had interest from Dallas and from Shanahan in Denver: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Romo

Here's a more legitimate source: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10195180

None of that makes him "highly regarded"

 

[Mulli]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draf...draft/positions?year=2003&_slug_=quarterbacks

Wow, Gibran Hamdan is was drafted?

 

[kerouac9]

Max Hall was ALSO considered a hot UDFA as well. I disagree that Max Hall was bad in the preseason, the last game he looked very good.

No he wasn't. His agent can insist that he was, but money talks. Find me a source that reports that any team besides the Cards wanted Max Hall. You can't; I've tried after Russ Smith insisted that the Provo Daily News or something ran with that story. NO ONE wanted Max Hall, and we all saw why.

Max Hall got a ridiculously low signing bonus for a UDFA; that's the proof.

Whisenhunt did not plant the Max Hall enthusiasm, that's patently absurd that you claim that. There were quite a few members of the media AND NFL talent evaluators that liked Max Hall quite a bit. I think you're revising the truth to fit your preconceived notions a bit here.

And I don't think Whisenhunt drummed up perceptions, that was the media and the fan base.

So you think that Peter King and Ron Jaworski and Jon Gruden just sit around watching college tape of UDFA quarterbacks, and they all decided that Max Hall was a guy to watch out for? Do you really, really believe that? Honestly? Max Hall? The guy who looked terrible against everyone but the Washington Redskins' fourth string? Really?

Have you read Next Man Up? One of the things it talks about in there is about the way that the media gets their stories. The media guys talk to the head coach and staff and let them know what they're thinking about and whom to watch out for.

Who are these NFL talent evaluators and media people who liked Max Hall before he was the #2 quarterback for the Arizona Cardinals? Show me.

And if you listen to the cryptic hints that Whisenhunt dropped in his postseason presser, it sounds like he understands this.

From Urbans latest blog:
http://blog.azcardinals.com/2011/01/03/whiz-talks-change/

Very interesting comment from Whisenhunt about how “sometimes you get emotionally attached to players and what they have done for you in the past.”

“You may have a tendency to overlook certain things … When you win games, sometimes you let things slip a little bit, ‘OK, he didn’t make this play, he’ll make it the next time.’ That builds up over time and you start evaluating players based on what you remember them doing a year or two or three or four ago and maybe not candidly assessing where they are right now. That’s an easy trap to fall into … and you have to work past that.

So be more cold-hearted? “There’s a fine line there.”

As for players who underachieved this season, that has to change. “Their goodwill is used up.” And as for the “star” players, “Some of our best players didn’t play at their best.”

Let the speculation begin on which players about whom he is speaking.

I know this, that safety Adrian Wilson said while some players cared, some didn’t. He said sometimes, it was “hidden” to many. Asked if he could still see it, Wilson said “I’ve been here 10 years. I’ve seen a lot of bull(bleep).”

That sounds like he's talking about players. Where's the part where he's talking about coaches? I'm glad that Whis realizes that Joey Porter and Alan Faneca have nothing left; the rest of us realized that last August. But Darren Urban is already assuming that Chris Miller is going to be calling plays full time next year. Do you believe that this promotion is in order because his offense was so remarkably productive this season?

I never HAVE claimed that we didn't know that Derrick Anderson was probably going to be terrible, but in a slight defense of the decision Derrick Anderson DID go to a Pro Bowl. Obviously from the offseason grumblings, we knew that a number of veterans (my guess Fitz and the receivers) didn't trust Leinart. While that seemed speculative or even false at the time, it makes more sense in light of what we know now.

As far as trumping up your claim that Max Hall was going to be bad, that's not a huge reach and doesn't make you look smart. Betting against a UDFA being a good starting QB will win you bets 99.999999999% of the time.

Well then aren't we all lucky that Ken Whisenhunt bet the Arizona Cardinals' 2010 season on a 0.000000001% prospect. Has he squandered the benefit of the doubt with you right now, or not?

Well I'm at a loss to give you a good list either to be honest, and I'm not going to fake the funk and give you a bullcrap list.

The fulcrum of this season was the QB play, and Whisenhunt and the front office struck out on the most important decision. I add the front office because they strangely AREN'T being held accountable even though we've had a litany of personnel failures this past offseason and in many others over the Rod Graves era.

That's the difference between me and you though: You still insist on putting everything on Whisenhunt, while I'm looking at the overall failures. I seriously doubt Whisenhunt wanted an 80 million dollar payroll that the ownership/front office gave him. But I guess you and your ilk want to blame everything on Whisenhunt so you might as well blame that on him too

I don't put everything on Whis. I blame the front office for giving Whis too much power too soon. They never should have allowed him to cut #7 in favor of Max Hall. They never should have allowed him to cut Cody Brown. But the front office also gets partial credit for building that Super Bowl team, and you don't seem to be giving them the benefit of the doubt, either.

The sad fact is that the personnel problems that this team has had are mostly on bringing in old Pittsburgh guys like Porter and Faneca and Bryant McFadden. I think that the personnel here was good enough for an 8-win team. But the coaching brought us down to a five-win team. This team underperformed the talent level, and that's on the coaching staff.