Kyler and Kliff’s Offseason Mission

[dreamcastrocks]

battered fan syndrome.

Uh, every Cards fan has to have that. It is the only way you can stay being a fan this long...

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah. We were 3-4 in games decided by one score or less.

Dunno about injuries compared to the rest of the league. We'll know more in the spring when FO publishes their Adjusted Games Lost metrics.

I just don't see how someone can look at the progress that Kliff has made the past two seasons and say, "I dunno whether this guy is even going to try to get better." He's managed to make significant improvements every season; this isn't the same team it was a year ago or two years ago.

yeah and my take on it is I suspect that Kliff may be Mark Jackson and we need to find Steve Kerr but that may just be for Kyler not the whole team? I guess the difference is Jackson's issue was the players didn't like or trust him, Kliff's may be that he's too friendly with the players they may need a go between. We may need to find a QB coach that can get more improvement from Kyler. I think Kliff has improved but the late season trend with him is pretty troubling.

I said he probably needed to win 2 games to not be on the hotseat, it's probalby 1, if we beat the Rams unless we got absolutely curb stomped by Tampa or Green Bay I would expect him to be back.

 

[PJ1]

We talk about our injuries compared to other teams. I don’t believe the injuries themselves are the difference but our lack of depth is. I mean Alford and Wilson starting is concerning. Imagine how bad the backups are. Well we are seeing how bad. Our D line loses Phillips and Lawrence to injuries for several games. They aren’t very good themselves so the drop off is huge. I don’t mention Watt because anyone who thought he could stay healthy is an idiot.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I'm absolutely mystified that after 3 years, people still think Kliff should stick around. How many late season collapses will prove that when things get tough, Kliff's teams fold?

The same problems creep up again and again. Pre snap penalties, confusion, missed assignments, total lack of continuity on both offense and defense. They are all the symptoms of the same problem - a total lack of leadership. Guys like him because he doesn't pressure them, but that's the problem! You can get away with half assed effort against bad teams, but once games start to matter, THE DETAILS MATTER!!!

This entire show is predicated on Kyler performing at an MVP level, which doesn't happen unless he's in mint condition. Any appearance of progress from Kyler at the beginning of the season appears to be a mirage - he's looking totally lost out there, and like a guy who doesn't study film.

There is no chance this team is winning anything of significance with Kliff at the helm, he's not good enough strategically or as a motivator.

It really is unbelievable. I guess people just prefer the pile of crap they are drowning in that they know over the uncertainty of the unknown.

 

[unseenaz]

kyler has all the talent to be league MVP, I just don't think he's being challenged by any of the coaches. his 'will to be good' isn't enough. he needs to be pushed.

 

[Arz101]

Have you ever felt in three years this is a punishing football team?

 

[Stout]

Uh, every Cards fan has to have that. It is the only way you can stay being a fan this long...

I think he means that battered fans look at the incremental improvement and think this is as good as it can get. It isn't, by a long shot, when you have what's supposed to be a generational talent at QB.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I think he means that battered fans look at the incremental improvement and think this is as good as it can get. It isn't, by a long shot, when you have what's supposed to be a generational talent at QB.

Does anyone think this? I would consider Kyler's skillset unique in the fact he can do things that we haven't really seen before. Generational talent though?

I'm seemingly a KM apologist and I don't think that.

 

[Stout]

Does anyone think this? I would consider Kyler's skillset unique in the fact he can do things that we haven't really seen before. Generational talent though?

I'm seemingly a KM apologist and I don't think that.

Point being, do you really see KK getting the best out of KM? I think the clear answer is no.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Point being, do you really see KK getting the best out of KM? I think the clear answer is no.

I do. (unless Harbaugh or Shanahan become available somehow)

Kliff has wanted to work with Kyler for a decade probably. If anyone knows what he is capable of, it is him.

Besides, I'm not convinced Kyler ever becomes MVP, let alone anywhere near a generational talent.

 

[kerouac9]

Point being, do you really see KK getting the best out of KM? I think the clear answer is no.

Yes. I dunno who you think you're going to bring in that will get more from him.

 

[Stout]

I do. (unless Harbaugh or Shanahan become available somehow)

Kliff has wanted to work with Kyler for a decade probably. If anyone knows what he is capable of, it is him.

Besides, I'm not convinced Kyler ever becomes MVP, let alone anywhere near a generational talent.

Wanting to work with him does not equate knowing how to develop him to maximize his capabilities. We have literally no evidence KK can do that; we're basing this on hope that he can do so. I always hope he'll do better, though I'm not expecting him to. KM still makes too many basic QB errors to give KK a lot of credit.

 

[Stout]

Yes. I dunno who you think you're going to bring in that will get more from him.

You mean nobody in the league can get KM to run a competent 2 minute offense? Nobody in the league can teach him to throw the ball away rather than take constant 10-20 yard sacks? It's impossible to get him to put in the extra work necessary to go from good to great? KK hasn't managed any of those things, and it's essential that someone work with KM to get him to be able to do those things.

 

[kerouac9]

You mean nobody in the league can get KM to run a competent 2 minute offense? Nobody in the league can teach him to throw the ball away rather than take constant 10-20 yard sacks? It's impossible to get him to put in the extra work necessary to go from good to great? KK hasn't managed any of those things, and it's essential that someone work with KM to get him to be able to do those things.

Maybe not. I don't know. Name names, bud.

My opinion is that Kyler Murray is a unique personality and likely would not have been a #1 overall pick (or maybe even a football player!) without Kliff and Keim. I still believe that if Murray comes to Keim and Michael Bidwill and says "I can't work with Kliff anymore," Kingsbury is gone the next day.

But it's difficult to imagine anyone else coming into this environment and having the credibility to tell Kyler Murray, Texas High School Football Legend, anything different.

 

[Harry]

Yeah. We were 3-4 in games decided by one score or less.

Dunno about injuries compared to the rest of the league. We'll know more in the spring when FO publishes their Adjusted Games Lost metrics.

I just don't see how someone can look at the progress that Kliff has made the past two seasons and say, "I dunno whether this guy is even going to try to get better." He's managed to make significant improvements every season; this isn't the same team it was a year ago or two years ago.

He has the best receiver in the game. 2 effective RBs and arguably the best receiving TE in the NFC or close to it. The best center in the NFL. He has the QB he says he’s always desired to have. How much talent does he need? Has he improved, yes. Does he still make too many rookie errors, yes! Lousy clock management, especially 2 minute drill. Wastes TOS. Seems to lack discipline, not just penalties, but QB development & discipline. Too often no discernible game plan. Seems to let his ego get tweaked and then takes reckless chances. His red zone strategy has become predictable and more easily defended. 19 plays for a FG says it all.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

He has the best receiver in the game. 2 effective RBs and arguably the best receiving TE in the NFC or close to it. The best center in the NFL. He has the QB he says he’s always desired to have. How much talent does he need? Has he improved, yes. Does he still make too many rookie errors, yes! Lousy clock management, especially 2 minute drill. Wastes TOS. Seems to lack discipline, not just penalties, but QB development & discipline. Too often no discernible game plan. Seems to let his ego get tweaked and then takes reckless chances. His red zone strategy has become predictable and more easily defended. 19 plays for a FG says it all.

That is an oversimplification. All of the players you mentioned, including Kyler himself missed significant time or wasn't on the team.

 

[Arz101]

Sometimes the grass is not greener on the other side. May be we should enjoy Kyler, Kliff and Keim contributions more?

 

[Stout]

Maybe not. I don't know. Name names, bud.

My opinion is that Kyler Murray is a unique personality and likely would not have been a #1 overall pick (or maybe even a football player!) without Kliff and Keim. I still believe that if Murray comes to Keim and Michael Bidwill and says "I can't work with Kliff anymore," Kingsbury is gone the next day.

But it's difficult to imagine anyone else coming into this environment and having the credibility to tell Kyler Murray, Texas High School Football Legend, anything different.

I'm not sure who; I'm not paid all the big bucks to know, and am not as in tune with the up-and-coming coaches to know who would be suitable.

If it's difficult to imagine who has the "cred" to dare to get KM out of his comfort zone, well, I hope the team doesn't take the same defeatist attitude. If the kid can't stand up to constructive criticism and learn to be better, he doesn't have the mental strength to get better. I'd rather learn that sooner rather than later. I'd rather not continue to coddle him.

 

[eastcoastDave]

Cards MUST have a top-to-bottom review of the team and make whatever changes are needed. I have hated the Cardinals’ drafts over the past several years. I cannot believe how week the defensive backs (save Baker) are. I cannot believe how average the offensive and defensive lines are. I cannot believe our No. 1 pick in this past draft has so little time on the field. The GM has made a large number of high-profile free agent signings over the years, only to see them mostly end up on the injury scrap heap. Some things have to change. Some coaches and front office personnel probably should no longer be employed. Some players probably will depart. And some who are expecting an extension probably should not get one. We have some very good skill players, but they need a lot of help. You don’t have the bottom fall out from under the team for the past 2 years without something being seriously wrong.

 

[kerouac9]

He has the best receiver in the game. 2 effective RBs and arguably the best receiving TE in the NFC or close to it. The best center in the NFL. He has the QB he says he’s always desired to have. How much talent does he need? Has he improved, yes. Does he still make too many rookie errors, yes! Lousy clock management, especially 2 minute drill. Wastes TOS. Seems to lack discipline, not just penalties, but QB development & discipline. Too often no discernible game plan. Seems to let his ego get tweaked and then takes reckless chances. His red zone strategy has become predictable and more easily defended. 19 plays for a FG says it all.

I guess, but he's not blaming his talent on the field. This was a good offense. 11th in points, 8th in yards! With a QB who doesn't know how to run a two-minute drill!

There's only so much you can do from season to season, especially a COVID-closed offseason two years ago.

I know you don't believe that the stammering progress of Kyler Murray's development is only on Kingsbury's coaching.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah. We were 3-4 in games decided by one score or less.

Dunno about injuries compared to the rest of the league. We'll know more in the spring when FO publishes their Adjusted Games Lost metrics.

I just don't see how someone can look at the progress that Kliff has made the past two seasons and say, "I dunno whether this guy is even going to try to get better." He's managed to make significant improvements every season; this isn't the same team it was a year ago or two years ago.

I would agree, but I’m unsure to what extent. This team is a much more talented team than the one two years ago. So what percentage of improvement is talent and what is coaching?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

yeah and my take on it is I suspect that Kliff may be Mark Jackson and we need to find Steve Kerr but that may just be for Kyler not the whole team? I guess the difference is Jackson's issue was the players didn't like or trust him, Kliff's may be that he's too friendly with the players they may need a go between. We may need to find a QB coach that can get more improvement from Kyler. I think Kliff has improved but the late season trend with him is pretty troubling.

I said he probably needed to win 2 games to not be on the hotseat, it's probalby 1, if we beat the Rams unless we got absolutely curb stomped by Tampa or Green Bay I would expect him to be back.

This is what I’ve been wondering for weeks. Is Kliff our dungy to gruden guy? Our Doug Collins to Phil Jackson guy?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Have you ever felt in three years this is a punishing football team?

Yes the first half Of this season I truly felt that. Then the punishment turned. In a big, painful, way.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I do. (unless Harbaugh or Shanahan become available somehow)

Kliff has wanted to work with Kyler for a decade probably. If anyone knows what he is capable of, it is him.

Besides, I'm not convinced Kyler ever becomes MVP, let alone anywhere near a generational talent.

Wait, you think kk is getting the best outta kyler . . . unless two other coaches had him. Doesn’t that mean that kk is NOT getting the best outta kyler?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Maybe not. I don't know. Name names, bud.

My opinion is that Kyler Murray is a unique personality and likely would not have been a #1 overall pick (or maybe even a football player!) without Kliff and Keim. I still believe that if Murray comes to Keim and Michael Bidwill and says "I can't work with Kliff anymore," Kingsbury is gone the next day.

But it's difficult to imagine anyone else coming into this environment and having the credibility to tell Kyler Murray, Texas High School Football Legend, anything different.

Huh. I think this shows an incredibly poor opinion of kyler if you think he’s that far beyond being capable of being coached hard. Due his high school accolades.