Kyler Murray Stat Line vs Bengals

BW52

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Hey man, I've decided not to get into a lot of back-and-forth about the what is ultimately each person's perception of Murray's, and the team's, performance.

I value every one on here, including you BW, so I don't want to bring the vibe down with a bunch of arguing.

Hope you've been well, and looking forward to maybe seeing you at a game at some point in the future.


Not really ripping the kid.I just expected more composure and less ******* plays.I do think the NFL is proving to be more of a challenge for KK and KM.I do think things will improve over the season but I don`t think too many wins will be the end result. Be well CW.:cheers:
 

HGC

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One thing to consider is that we are among the NFL leaders in red zone points, but it has been FGs instead of TDs. That all being said, it is easier to improve on something you do consistently, and getting into the red zone is something that the Cardinals has done consistently this year.

For comparison, in 2018 over the first 5 games, the Cardinals had 10 scoring drives. In 2019, over the same period of time, we have had 22.

Kliff’s doing some good things and I hated the hire. Eating some crow.
 

gimpy

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Well, I don't believe you for a second. You're always ripping him. And I get tired of it

And I'm not sure what "dumba** plays" you are talking about that you expected more? :hammer:
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Agree. His pure quickness is something Vick never had. Vick had that open field speed but I love what I see from Kyler with that decision making when taking off. Just like college so far.
That’s not right. Go watch young Vick.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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That’s not right. Go watch young Vick.
The two main differences I see is that Vick probably had a higher top end speed and was a bigger guys so was a more physical runner. The quickness and acceleration between young Vick and Murray is very similar.
 

dscher

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Well, I don't believe you for a second. You're always ripping him. And I get tired of it

And I'm not sure what "dumba** plays" you are talking about that you expected more? :hammer:
Imho.. some will never be happy about the pick regardless...and that's ok. It's what makes it an open forum to say what we want to say and express our feelings about it.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I've said it once, and I will say it again: what we gave up for Kyler, where we picked him, and the wild risks we took in selecting both our coach and QB means he has extra special expectations.

At the end of the day, Keim's job isn't going to be saved by giving it time for Kyler to develop. This team will need some signature wins and some sign of life that they can truly compete against good teams in this league.
I think it’s funny that you thought he wasn’t worth the pick but are holding him to the highest expectations of anyone in the board. Seems inconsistent, no?
 

Vacard

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I think at the game winning drive, KM showed acceleration at the an that hasn’t been seen since prime Vick. It looks like he was about to hit second gear before he reached the goal line but was tackled immediately. We haven’t even seen him hit second gear in game time yet.
 

Solar7

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I think it’s funny that you thought he wasn’t worth the pick but are holding him to the highest expectations of anyone in the board. Seems inconsistent, no?
I don't see how it's inconsistent at all. We burned EVERYTHING for this kid and Kliff. Promises of a wild, Sean McVay-esque turnaround. It's like everyone is forgetting the offseason narrative, where he was going to rise above all challenges on the OL, defense, poor talent across the roster, and that nonsense.

We didn't draft this kid, or sign this coach, or hide our offense all preseason, to be "kinda alright" and be content with beating a winless team by 3 points. I'm standing by the unpleasant thought, at least for the moment, that our future looks way more like the Titans than the Chiefs.

I think Kyler is gonna be pretty good. All in all, he's had his promising moments. I just can't see the game-changer yet that you guys do. Being 1-3-1 with the team who picked 1 behind us at 5-0 has to be eye-opening to people, right? A QB in the bottom 3 of passing TDs? Functionally near the bottom on completion percentage?

Stats can be interpreted in any way, it's what I do for a living, but holy hell, I can only be so happy when it's tough to envision more than a win or two on the remaining schedule.
 

PACardsFan

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I don't see how it's inconsistent at all. We burned EVERYTHING for this kid and Kliff. Promises of a wild, Sean McVay-esque turnaround. It's like everyone is forgetting the offseason narrative, where he was going to rise above all challenges on the OL, defense, poor talent across the roster, and that nonsense.

We didn't draft this kid, or sign this coach, or hide our offense all preseason, to be "kinda alright" and be content with beating a winless team by 3 points. I'm standing by the unpleasant thought, at least for the moment, that our future looks way more like the Titans than the Chiefs.

I think Kyler is gonna be pretty good. All in all, he's had his promising moments. I just can't see the game-changer yet that you guys do. Being 1-3-1 with the team who picked 1 behind us at 5-0 has to be eye-opening to people, right? A QB in the bottom 3 of passing TDs? Functionally near the bottom on completion percentage?

Stats can be interpreted in any way, it's what I do for a living, but holy hell, I can only be so happy when it's tough to envision more than a win or two on the remaining schedule.


The Niners only picked behind us because they incurred more injuries in 2018 than I may have ever seen a football team have. Garoppolo was 2-0 with NE & then 5-0 with SF in 2017. Shanahan has had 2 years to build that team as he see fit. Bosa was drafted into a MUCH better situation than Murray was. We just came off our WORST team in Cardinal history, and now implementing a new system with a new HC, new rookie QB, and a defense that is lacking their HOF & All Pro corners. NO ONE said we would have a McVay turnaround in year 1, but Murray has shown more in 5 games than certainly any Cardinal rookie QB ever has. You're entitled to spew your nonsense, but most on this board see it as exactly that.
 

Chopper0080

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The Niners only picked behind us because they incurred more injuries in 2018 than I may have ever seen a football team have. Garoppolo was 2-0 with NE & then 5-0 with SF in 2017. Shanahan has had 2 years to build that team as he see fit. Bosa was drafted into a MUCH better situation than Murray was. We just came off our WORST team in Cardinal history, and now implementing a new system with a new HC, new rookie QB, and a defense that is lacking their HOF & All Pro corners. NO ONE said we would have a McVay turnaround in year 1, but Murray has shown more in 5 games than certainly any Cardinal rookie QB ever has. You're entitled to spew your nonsense, but most on this board see it as exactly that.
We are two years removed from an 8-8 season with a backup QB. Let's not ignore that last year was more about coaching than it was about players. Wilks and McCoy were let go because of how inept they were. The roster is not great by any stretch, but it is good enough to get 5 or 6 wins with better coaching and competent QB play.
 
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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I don't see how it's inconsistent at all. We burned EVERYTHING for this kid and Kliff. Promises of a wild, Sean McVay-esque turnaround. It's like everyone is forgetting the offseason narrative, where he was going to rise above all challenges on the OL, defense, poor talent across the roster, and that nonsense.

We didn't draft this kid, or sign this coach, or hide our offense all preseason, to be "kinda alright" and be content with beating a winless team by 3 points. I'm standing by the unpleasant thought, at least for the moment, that our future looks way more like the Titans than the Chiefs.

I think Kyler is gonna be pretty good. All in all, he's had his promising moments. I just can't see the game-changer yet that you guys do. Being 1-3-1 with the team who picked 1 behind us at 5-0 has to be eye-opening to people, right? A QB in the bottom 3 of passing TDs? Functionally near the bottom on completion percentage?

Stats can be interpreted in any way, it's what I do for a living, but holy hell, I can only be so happy when it's tough to envision more than a win or two on the remaining schedule.
If, in your opinion, poop was going to taste bad, but everyone around you was yelling it was going to taste great would you have the highest of expectations about how it was going to taste? No, because you believed it was going to taste bad. Unless, that is, you were effectively convinced that those that were yelling were right.

But that didn’t happen with you. You were never convinced drafting him was a good idea. So in reality your actual expectations never changed because those praising him didn’t convince you. So it makes no sense that you possess these alleged expectations. I honestly believe you make this claim to keep the offseason argument going. To what end I have no idea.
 
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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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We are two tears removed from an 8-8 season with a backup QB. Let's not ignore that last year was more about coaching than it was about players. Wilks and McCoy were let go because of how inept they were. The roster is not great by any stretch, but it is good enough to get 5 or 6 wins with better coaching and competent QB play.
And from that 8-8 season we start the following same players:

Offense:
Humphries (when he wasn’t injured)
DJ
Fitz
Shipley

Defense:
Gunter
Jones
Reddick
Peters

(I don’t believe Buddha started)

So 8/22 players. And the backend of the roster is almost entirely different. So I don’t think referencing 2017 makes any sense whatsoever in terms of expectations or talent.
 

Chopper0080

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Replacing replacement level players with other replacement level players doesn't significantly impacting the level of talent on the roster as much as coaching does.

Injured John Brown and injured Christian Kirk...meh.

Jaron Brown vs KeeSean Johnson...meh.

Jermiane Gresham and Darren Fells vs Clay and Maxx Williams...meh.

Mike Iupati and Alex Boone vs Justin Pugh.

Earl Watford vs JR Sweezy

Deone Bucannon vs Haason Reddick...meh


It is all pretty much the same, and if you really look at that 2017 roster, we probably have more talent now than we had then to be honest.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Replacing replacement level players with other replacement level players doesn't significantly impacting the level of talent on the roster as much as coaching does.

Injured John Brown and injured Christian Kirk...meh.

Jaron Brown vs KeeSean Johnson...meh.

Jermiane Gresham and Darren Fells vs Clay and Maxx Williams...meh.

Mike Iupati and Alex Boone vs Justin Pugh.

Earl Watford vs JR Sweezy

Deone Bucannon vs Haason Reddick...meh


It is all pretty much the same, and if you really look at that 2017 roster, we probably have more talent now than we had then to be honest.
I’m sorry I have to chuckle a bit at your response as you purposefully ignore Patrick peterson’s availability, mathieu, Frostee , and veldheer, and more veteran players on defense and offense and the fact that not only did all of those guys in 2017 play together for years but also in the same schemes for years.
 

Cheesebeef

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Cousins would have been held to the same "extra special expectations" in my opinion if we gave him a fully guaranteed deal like that. I never said he wouldn't.

The thing is, no, he hasn't been the answer in Minny right now, but I do think he would have put us over the top in a few games last season, enough that we'd probably have Wilks still. Tons of variables to this thing, but he's better than a hobbled Bradford or a rookie Rosen, IMO.

jesus... you make the above sound like a GOOD thing. i mean... we'd have a completely overrated QB who would be choking our cap and an awful HC who together can continually keep up a 5-6 win team. Yay?

dude, I've never said this to ANYONE on this board, but if you really hate everything this team has done this off-season and see such little light at the end of the tunnel this year, don't you have better things to do than to make yourself miserable every Sunday? You've already stated before that the little things and watching a team grow don't make you happy and that the ONLY thing that does is Ws. Well, guess what... there ain't gonna be a lot of Ws this year. It's a growing pains year. If you can't deal with the pains that come from growth, why bother this year?

again, this is not me telling you to leave... it's asking why you put yourself through this this year? Even in terrible years, no matter how bad I thought the team was, I still had fun every football season because I'm usually either with Ouchie and Dave or getting smashed with my Raider friends in loser solidarity sundays. But you're literally getting no joy out of anything but a W. They ain't coming in droves this year and if that's the only way you can't be miserable (as you previously stated), why put yourself through the pain?
 

gimpy

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I would ask Chopper what were/are the differences in the teams that we played back then compared to now? You've compared our players, but what about the teams strengths and weaknesses? Does that make a huge difference?
 

Solar7

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If, in your opinion, poop was going to taste bad, but everyone around you was yelling it was going to taste great would you have the highest of expectations about how it was going to taste? No, because you believed it was going to taste bad. Unless, that is, you were effectively convinced that those that were yelling were right.

But that didn’t happen with you. You were never convinced drafting him was a good idea. So in reality your actual expectations never changed because those praising him didn’t convince you. So it makes no sense that you possess these alleged expectations. I honestly believe you make this claim to keep the offseason argument going. To what end I have no idea.
All in all, I felt that if this was our direction, it had to be great. I'm not sure what else you can expect here. Outright saying I thought Kyler would be bad isn't really accurate, just not the kind of elite player you see in other #1 QBs.

jesus... you make the above sound like a GOOD thing. i mean... we'd have a completely overrated QB who would be choking our cap and an awful HC who together can continually keep up a 5-6 win team. Yay?

dude, I've never said this to ANYONE on this board, but if you really hate everything this team has done this off-season and see such little light at the end of the tunnel this year, don't you have better things to do than to make yourself miserable every Sunday? You've already stated before that the little things and watching a team grow don't make you happy and that the ONLY thing that does is Ws. Well, guess what... there ain't gonna be a lot of Ws this year. It's a growing pains year. If you can't deal with the pains that come from growth, why bother this year?

again, this is not me telling you to leave... it's asking why you put yourself through this this year? Even in terrible years, no matter how bad I thought the team was, I still had fun every football season because I'm usually either with Ouchie and Dave or getting smashed with my Raider friends in loser solidarity sundays. But you're literally getting no joy out of anything but a W. They ain't coming in droves this year and if that's the only way you can't be miserable (as you previously stated), why put yourself through the pain?

Obviously, keeping Wilks would not be a good thing. The really rocky part of where my perspective here starts is keeping Keim after firing our head coach, after some readily apparent faltering, and a really terrible offseason both personally and professionally.

I'm a Cards fan to my core. This is the first time ever that I haven't been an overwhelming optimist. I feel like we have differing opinions (not just you and I, but myself and others on the board), of what really is successful when it comes to "the little things."

Maybe "only Ws" is an exaggeration on my part, but the periods where we've been competitive (against good teams) have been few and far between, from my lens. I can get excited about the team/our QB pushing the ball in between the 20s, but I see us slipping in other places, and being unable to actually put up points.

I feel we're floundering and not making real progress with a clear objective, others clearly don't agree.

I have fun with football as a whole. I have 7 fantasy teams, I spend time with friends and family for every game. But man, I just want to rip off the bandaid and get to a true rebuild.

There's fun to be had here talking about the games, and I was amped to watch live against the Lions when we had a great 4th quarter, and super happy to see us seemingly be dominant against the Bengals for a bit, until that fell apart too.

There's a chance we learn and grow, but I still feel that everyone fed me a narrative in the offseason that this was going to be revolutionary and vault us back into competition at the very least, but I don't see it. We're still really bad, with poor talent, questionable coaching, and a QB who is trying his best while helping my fantasy teams.

I just don't agree with the direction until we get things going. There's a lot of season left to make me feel different... but geez, I'd just love to win or make it close against a good team, without our coach passively admitting/joking about not drawing up running plays very well or touching the defense at all.
 

Solar7

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Also, Kyler is clearly better than Rosen was on our team so ultimately, it was a good pick and a good move.
If Kyler is not markedly better than Rosen and is ultimately not better than Tua or Hebert (or whoever ends up being a top pick this year that we have a shot at), it's not. If we end up with some wins and don't have a shot at them anyways, you're probably right.
 

BigRedRage

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If Kyler is not markedly better than Rosen and is ultimately not better than Tua or Hebert (or whoever ends up being a top pick this year that we have a shot at), it's not. If we end up with some wins and don't have a shot at them anyways, you're probably right.


The eye test says he is a clear upgrade at this point in the season. To me, none of that other stuff matters. The bottom line is and always was, is this a clear upgrade over Rosen? It turns out it is.
 

dscher

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If, in your opinion, poop was going to taste bad, but everyone around you was yelling it was going to taste great would you have the highest of expectations about how it was going to taste? No, because you believed it was going to taste bad. Unless, that is, you were effectively convinced that those that were yelling were right.

But that didn’t happen with you. You were never convinced drafting him was a good idea. So in reality your actual expectations never changed because those praising him didn’t convince you. So it makes no sense that you possess these alleged expectations. I honestly believe you make this claim to keep the offseason argument going. To what end I have no idea.
We've seen this movie before.. and solar has admitted that it's just too hard for him to really move on from, in past posts. But I respect everyone's opinions no doubt.. I just know I have to process his takes with a grain a salt... Like I'm sure he does with mine when it comes to Kyler. Lol. ;)
 

GatorAZ

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Also, Kyler is clearly better than Rosen was on our team so ultimately, it was a good pick and a good move.

Leaning that way but Kyler has the coaching and running game advantage. That’s not saying either are anything special but compared to what Josh has/had. I would’ve liked to have seen Josh in a situation where everything around him wasn’t set to fail. But, results are results and Kyler has the advantage to this point.
 
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