Kyler Murray

[Solar7]

Getting hit like Rosen did last year exposes a player to injury. Rosen has an injury history too, missed most of his Sophmore year.

Murray avoids hits, hence Mike Gundys comment about him getting tackled 7 times in thr first 7 games.

We need to stop talking about Rosen. I am talking about the starting quarterback of this team. Murray is great at avoiding hits when given five starting linemen who are going to the NFL, and is running away from kids who will soon be accountants. I don't buy it.

Edit: Not to mention, we already debunked Mike Gundy's comments in another thread. That dude blusters more than anyone in college football.

But....he does football things better than Joshua does. Like, y’know, be a better quarterback. The reigning MVP’s game is predicated on being mobile.

But, what makes Joshua’s floor any higher? Because he’s 6’4 & stands in the pocket with sub-par mobility?

Again, not talking about Josh Rosen. Talking about the starting quarterback of our team.

30 years from now people are going to laugh at the take that you have to be 6'5 to play QB. So many stiffs over the years that were only drafted because they fit a mold.

6'5+ isn't even the mold. In fact, QBs over that height are characteristically bad too. The sweet spot is more between 6'2-6'4.

 

[Krangodnzr]

We need to stop talking about Rosen. I am talking about the starting quarterback of this team. Murray is great at avoiding hits when given five starting linemen who are going to the NFL, and is running away from kids who will soon be accountants. I don't buy it.

Edit: Not to mention, we already debunked Mike Gundy's comments in another thread. That dude blusters more than anyone in college football.


Again, not talking about Josh Rosen. Talking about the starting quarterback of our team.


6'5+ isn't even the mold. In fact, QBs over that height are characteristically bad too. The sweet spot is more between 6'2-6'4.

It was tongue and cheek, but I can understand how you'd miss that. But the point stands, he doesnt get hit much.

Most good college QBs played behind good lines. As good as Murrays line was, look at what Russell Wilson had at Wisconsin...even better.

And Rosen was the alternative, so the comparison matters whether you admit it or not.

 

[BW52]

Getting hit like Rosen did last year exposes a player to injury. Rosen has an injury history too, missed most of his Sophmore year.

Murray avoids hits, hence Mike Gundys comment about him getting tackled 7 times in thr first 7 games.[/QUOTE

Gundy was proven to be full of crap.

 

[Solar7]

It was tongue and cheek, but I can understand how you'd miss that. But the point stands, he doesnt get hit much.

Most good college QBs played behind good lines. As good as Murrays line was, look at what Russell Wilson had at Wisconsin...even better.

And Rosen was the alternative, so the comparison matters whether you admit it or not.

Russell Wilson had more than one season of play. He had a sample size. Murray has 13 games, and the guy before him crushed it.

If you really want to bring Rosen into it, fine. No, I don't think Rosen was going to be amazing. But I think Murray is going to be pretty mediocre to poor, and now we've hitched our wagon to him. If Rosen were here and wasn't very good, we could have moved on next year or the year after.

We won't be moving on from Murray anytime soon. I hate the lack of flexibility we're forced into now.

 

[juza76]

It was tongue and cheek, but I can understand how you'd miss that. But the point stands, he doesnt get hit much.

Most good college QBs played behind good lines. As good as Murrays line was, look at what Russell Wilson had at Wisconsin...even better.

And Rosen was the alternative, so the comparison matters whether you admit it or not.

solar is gaining new vitality after his excuses for his controversial posts following the draft

 

[BW52]

Getting hit like Rosen did last year exposes a player to injury. Rosen has an injury history too, missed most of his Sophmore year.

Murray avoids hits, hence Mike Gundys comment about him getting tackled 7 times in thr first 7 games.

Rosen missed 6 games ( half the season).Half is not missing most of the season .

 

[BW52]

solar is gaining new vitality after his excuses for his controversial posts following the draft

So what?Some choose not to join the KylerKult.

 

[DVontel]

We need to stop talking about Rosen. I am talking about the starting quarterback of this team. Murray is great at avoiding hits when given five starting linemen who are going to the NFL, and is running away from kids who will soon be accountants. I don't buy it.

Edit: Not to mention, we already debunked Mike Gundy's comments in another thread. That dude blusters more than anyone in college football.


Again, not talking about Josh Rosen. Talking about the starting quarterback of our team.


6'5+ isn't even the mold. In fact, QBs over that height are characteristically bad too. The sweet spot is more between 6'2-6'4.

But your initial post was

I'd still rather be the team with the guy who has the high floor.

Were you just speaking in general or.....? Cause it very seems like you were talking about Joshua.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I'd still rather be the team with the guy who has the high floor. Murray's floor is so low that I can't help but get depressed thinking about it. I mean, so is Kingsbury's.

If they don't succeed, being a fan of this team won't be like it was in the 90s and 2000s, where we were mostly afterthoughts, we'll be ridiculed up and down constantly.

First off how is his floor so low? Also what does floor really matter? Even if Rosen has a higher floor (not sure why you say that) it wouldn't really matter because we need either guy to surpass their floor significantly for them to be good enough to bring us to the promised land. I feel more confident that Murray can play at that level.

 

[Solar7]

First off how is his floor so low? Also what does floor really matter? Even if Rosen has a higher floor (not sure why you say that) it wouldn't really matter because we need either guy to surpass their floor significantly for them to be good enough to bring us to the promised land. I feel more confident that Murray can play at that level.

I'm tired of fighting about Rosen. But nonetheless, the corpse of Peyton Manning and the acumen of the great Brock Osweiler brought a Super Bowl to Denver recently. That wasn't a dynamic, insane QB doing it. The Patriots shut out the lights on the dynamic Rams and Chiefs last year.

Rosen was a player we could have fundamentally succeeded with as long as the team around him was solid. You win championships in this league by being a fundamentally sound team on both sides of the ball, not wild gimmick play. Everyone is blinded by fantasy football, so much so they're ignoring that Russell Wilson only has one championship, and it's when he had a killer defense.

All of the hype, all year, inevitably gets locked down by a team playing sound defense with a pocket passer with a killer instinct for ball placement.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'm tired of fighting about Rosen. But nonetheless, the corpse of Peyton Manning and the acumen of the great Brock Osweiler brought a Super Bowl to Denver recently. That wasn't a dynamic, insane QB doing it. The Patriots shut out the lights on the dynamic Rams and Chiefs last year.

Rosen was a player we could have fundamentally succeeded with as long as the team around him was solid. You win championships in this league by being a fundamentally sound team on both sides of the ball, not wild gimmick play. Everyone is blinded by fantasy football, so much so they're ignoring that Russell Wilson only has one championship, and it's when he had a killer defense.

All of the hype, all year, inevitably gets locked down by a team playing sound defense with a pocket passer with a killer instinct for ball placement.

For Rosen to even be average would take huge improvements.

 

[Jetstream Green]

For Rosen to even be average would take huge improvements.

I think it will not take much for Rosen to be average if put in an advantageous position but just as people accused him as being 'too smart' as a flaw... now we have people faulting Murray for possibly being great when we want to strive for average to achieve success lol

 

[slanidrac16]

I'm tired of fighting about Rosen. But nonetheless, the corpse of Peyton Manning and the acumen of the great Brock Osweiler brought a Super Bowl to Denver recently. That wasn't a dynamic, insane QB doing it. The Patriots shut out the lights on the dynamic Rams and Chiefs last year.

Rosen was a player we could have fundamentally succeeded with as long as the team around him was solid. You win championships in this league by being a fundamentally sound team on both sides of the ball, not wild gimmick play. Everyone is blinded by fantasy football, so much so they're ignoring that Russell Wilson only has one championship, and it's when he had a killer defense.

All of the hype, all year, inevitably gets locked down by a team playing sound defense with a pocket passer with a killer instinct for ball placement.

In the first sentence of your second paragraph you used the word “ could”. That word could be applied to any description of Murray.

As far as the Patriots shutting down the Rams and the Chiefs if I recall correctly they didn’t really shut down the Chiefs. The Patriots have done that for the last what seems forever. Every system, player, offense, and defense has been beaten by them.

The Patriots should have lost to the mobile Russell Wilson and they did lose to the “ gimmicky” Eagles.

 

[PACardsFan]

We went through this ad nauseam for months leading up to the draft. The Cardinals chose to draft Murray. Time to move on.

 

[Vacard]

Seriously Rosen, who is one conscussion away from a career ending move is GONE, get over it! Y’all whining about someone who never elevated his game, piss poor attitude, and less than mediocre player is downright sickening!

 

[Vacard]

Rosen missed 6 games ( half the season).Half is not missing most of the season .

And Kyler never missed a game, but the point was he STILL missed games! He’s lucky he didn’t get hurt last year with him unable to shift in the pocket and not getting rid of the ball faster.

 

[DVontel]

the corpse of Peyton Manning and the acumen of the great Brock Osweiler brought a Super Bowl to Denver recently.

Huh

and it's when he had a killer defense.

lol

 

[Solar7]

In the first sentence of your second paragraph you used the word “ could”. That word could be applied to any description of Murray.

As far as the Patriots shutting down the Rams and the Chiefs if I recall correctly they didn’t really shut down the Chiefs. The Patriots have done that for the last what seems forever. Every system, player, offense, and defense has been beaten by them.

The Patriots should have lost to the mobile Russell Wilson and they did lose to the “ gimmicky” Eagles.

Well, I didn't really mean they shut them down (although they did to the Rams), but they ended their seasons.

Fact of the matter is, they didn't lose to the mobile Russell Wilson, and that was when he had a crushing defense at his side. And the Eagles aren't "gimmicky." Nick Foles is less mobile than Josh Rosen.

Huh

lol

I don't see what's weird about that sentence. They did bring a Super Bowl there. Thanks to the defense.

And lol at Russell Wilson having a great defense? The year they won, Marshawn Lynch ran wild, the defense shut everyone down... Russ played well, but he didn't do it all on his own. He certainly wasn't hoping his RB could make it through behind an entire line of guys who couldn't even be Pro Bowl alternates.

 

[DVontel]

Well, I didn't really mean they shut them down (although they did to the Rams), but they ended their seasons.

Fact of the matter is, they didn't lose to the mobile Russell Wilson, and that was when he had a crushing defense at his side. And the Eagles aren't "gimmicky." Nick Foles is less mobile than Josh Rosen.


I don't see what's weird about that sentence. They did bring a Super Bowl there. Thanks to the defense.

And lol at Russell Wilson having a great defense? The year they won, Marshawn Lynch ran wild, the defense shut everyone down... Russ played well, but he didn't do it all on his own. He certainly wasn't hoping his RB could make it through behind an entire line of guys who couldn't even be Pro Bowl alternates.

Nah, it just seemed like you implied Peyton/Osweiler had a bigger impact of winning the SB as opposed to Von/their defense while in turn believing Seattle’s D had a lot more to do with Seattle’s championship than Russ did.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Rosen missed 6 games ( half the season).Half is not missing most of the season .

Minor discrepancy. If he missed 3 minutes of one game more game, he missed more than half the season like I said.

Rosen also had two concussions his final season.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Nah, it just seemed like you implied Peyton/Osweiler had a bigger impact of winning the SB as opposed to Von/their defense while in turn believing Seattle’s D had a lot more to do with Seattle’s championship than Russ did.

I think Russell Wilson has proven that he has a massive amount of credit for anything those Seahawks teams do.

Teams have to account for him unlike almost any QB in the league...just like they will have to with Kyler....

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

I'm tired of fighting about Rosen. But nonetheless, the corpse of Peyton Manning and the acumen of the great Brock Osweiler brought a Super Bowl to Denver recently. That wasn't a dynamic, insane QB doing it. The Patriots shut out the lights on the dynamic Rams and Chiefs last year.

Rosen was a player we could have fundamentally succeeded with as long as the team around him was solid. You win championships in this league by being a fundamentally sound team on both sides of the ball, not wild gimmick play. Everyone is blinded by fantasy football, so much so they're ignoring that Russell Wilson only has one championship, and it's when he had a killer defense.

All of the hype, all year, inevitably gets locked down by a team playing sound defense with a pocket passer with a killer instinct for ball placement.

Well said Solar7 and its the way New England has how many Rings now may add a Hell of a coach that adapts to the players Not the players who adapts to the coach

 

[Solar7]

Nah, it just seemed like you implied Peyton/Osweiler had a bigger impact of winning the SB as opposed to Von/their defense while in turn believing Seattle’s D had a lot more to do with Seattle’s championship than Russ did.

Gotcha. No, I was implying that a defense with two stud pass rushers were enough to carry two guys that played pretty poorly to a championship. I firmly believe that Rosen could have gotten better enough to play above their levels that season, and that Russ still needs a strong defense and running game to get it done, because he's not enough on his own.

I think Russell Wilson has proven that he has a massive amount of credit for anything those Seahawks teams do.

Teams have to account for him unlike almost any QB in the league...just like they will have to with Kyler....

He certainly deserves a bunch of credit, he's a great player, but he can't get it all done by himself.

These high octane offenses haven't really come to fruition over balanced teams with talent on both sides of the ball.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He certainly deserves a bunch of credit, he's a great player, but he can't get it all done by himself.

These high octane offenses haven't really come to fruition over balanced teams with talent on both sides of the ball.

Balanced teams? The real way to win in the NFL is to spend a ton on one side of the ball and go young and cheap on the other.

The Patriots are an outlier; they dont spend on pass rushers and have a artificially cheap QB. They fit their own model.

 

[Solar7]

Balanced teams? The real way to win in the NFL is to spend a ton on one side of the ball and go young and cheap on the other.

The Patriots are an outlier; they dont spend on pass rushers and have a artificially cheap QB. They fit their own model.

You insist you're great at debate, but 90% of the time you say stuff like "that doesn't matter," essentially because you decided it shouldn't matter. Even though it still does.

In the past decade, very few teams teams have gone with your model and won the Super Bowl. Please, go back through the past two decades, even, and show me who even got to appear in the Super Bowl with a young, cheap QB outside of the Seahawks, Rams, 49ers, and Ravens (both in the same game). I'll even link you to a list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_champions

10% of appearances with your model.