Kyrie

[Chris_Sanders]

Eric Bledsoe is ranked number 11 in PER among point guards. He is 27 years old. Kyrie is ranked number 8 and is 25 years old. You want to give up assets for Kyrie? Surely, those assets would be better used for another purpose, no?

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg

Look at the same stats and value added and wins added. It takes Bledsoe and Warren to equal Kyrie. Kyrie is going to improve. Bledsoe is not. Bledsoe in 2 years in entering the end of his top years. Kyrie is entering his start.

So yes. Absolutely.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Why is Booker so valuable despite being relatively one dimensional?

Because he is 20. He hasn't remotely reached his ceiling / peak years.

That is exactly the same with Kyrie. His age 24 season compares favorably with any other top 10 PG. Only 2 I think were better (Paul and Curry). That is elite company.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the only reason the Suns flirt with Kyrie is to get another star on the roster. Yes, I am projecting Booker will be in that category going forward.

I have two major problems with acquiring Kyrie. I don't believe he will stay beyond two seasons and I think Kyrie will take away from Booker's game. There are not enough basketballs. Also I worry about friction developing because of this. Both are offensive minded players who may have trouble sharing the ball.

Too bad the Suns did not trade up to Boston's spot in the draft and draft Ball if the Suns wanted to replace Bledsoe so much.

 

[GatorAZ]

I think the only reason the Suns flirt with Kyrie is to get another star on the roster. Yes, I am projecting Booker will be in that category going forward.

I have two major problems with acquiring Kyrie. I don't believe he will stay beyond two seasons and I think Kyrie will take away from Booker's game. There are not enough basketballs. Also I worry about friction developing because of this. Both are offensive minded players who may have trouble sharing the ball.

Too bad the Suns did not trade up to Boston's spot in the draft and draft Ball if the Suns wanted to replace Bledsoe so much.

Thing is we're always talking about collecting assets to cash in for a star. These situations don't come up often and if you don't think you can put a team around him to stay then you shouldn't be a GM.

If they're dead set on Jackson then go overboard on other young players, draft picks and take back salary. I heard Cleveland Luxury tax bill is now at a 4:1 payout. Taking back Shumpert could save them over 30m in penalties.

 

[Mainstreet]

Thing is we're always talking about collecting assets to cash in for a star. These situations don't come up often and if you don't think you can put a team around him to stay then you shouldn't be a GM.

If they're dead set on Jackson then go overboard on other young players, draft picks and take back salary. I heard Cleveland Luxury tax bill is now at a 4:1 payout. Taking back Shumpert could save them over 30m in penalties.

I think the reason the Suns trade for Kyrie is to add another star (projecting Booker in this category) so I think we agree. However, I'm not sure Kyrie is the right fit with Booker.

However, maybe it is all about throwing stars together and hoping for the best. Maybe it is that simple.

 

[SirStefan32]

Why is Booker so valuable despite being relatively one dimensional?

Because he is 20. He hasn't remotely reached his ceiling / peak years.

That is exactly the same with Kyrie. His age 24 season compares favorably with any other top 10 PG. Only 2 I think were better (Paul and Curry). That is elite company.

That is not a good comparison. One player is 20 years old, and the other one is 25. One is a shooting guard, and the other one is a point guard. They are both one-dimensional right now, but Booker is more likely to add something to his game. Irving is what he is. He may become a better shooter, but he is not going to become a distributor at the age of 25. It is also far more important for a PG to be able to do multiple things well than it is for a shooting guard. Point guard HAS to be able to do something other than score.

Booker is scary good for being 20. Kyrie is already 25, and really not all that scary.

 

[GatorAZ]

That is not a good comparison. One player is 20 years old, and the other one is 25. One is a shooting guard, and the other one is a point guard. They are both one-dimensional right now, but Booker is more likely to add something to his game. Irving is what he is. He may become a better shooter, but he is not going to become a distributor at the age of 25. It is also far more important for a PG to be able to do multiple things well than it is for a shooting guard. Point guard HAS to be able to do something other than score.

Booker is scary good for being 20. Kyrie is already 25, and really not all that scary.

Irving's assist% his first three years in Cleveland were the same as Harden's first three in Houston. Not saying he'll turn into a playmaker it's not out of the question he improved in that regard.

 

[SirStefan32]

Irving's assist% his first three years in Cleveland were the same as Harden's first three in Houston. Not saying he'll turn into a playmaker it's not out of the question he improved in that regard.

I honestly have no idea what that sentence is supposed to mean.

Either way, if you can't average 6 assists with Lebron on your team, you are not going to turn into a play maker. Even if you forget the stats, a simple eye test is all that's needed to determine what kind of a player Kyrie is. He is an isolation scorer. Damn fine isolation scorer, but an isolation scorer nonetheless.

 

[GatorAZ]

I honestly have no idea what that sentence is supposed to mean.

Either way, if you can't average 6 assists with Lebron on your team, you are not going to turn into a play maker. Even if you forget the stats, a simple eye test is all that's needed to determine what kind of a player Kyrie is. He is an isolation scorer. Damn fine isolation scorer, but an isolation scorer nonetheless.

Typed and submitted too quickly. Meant to say it's not crazy to think he'll improve in that regard. Harden was averaging under 6 assists his first two years in Houston playing nearly 40 minutes and improved each season before the D'Antoni hire. With his dribble-drive ability the opportunities would be there. I'd help if the Suns weren't a horrendous 3pt shooting team.

 

[leclerc]

He believes the earth is flat and probably thinks science is similar to religion, that you can choose what to believe. Talk about pinhead. I seriously don't want him in Phoenix.

 

[Hoop Head]

Why is Booker so valuable despite being relatively one dimensional?

Because he is 20. He hasn't remotely reached his ceiling / peak years.

That is exactly the same with Kyrie. His age 24 season compares favorably with any other top 10 PG. Only 2 I think were better (Paul and Curry). That is elite company.

You think he's better than Harden, who was a PG last year, and Westbrook? Even IT had more of an impact on his team last year. I don't see Kyrie as a top 5 PG and struggle to understand how someone sees him as top 3, ahead of 3 guys who finished in the top 5 of the MVP race, including the winner of that award.

 

[Hoop Head]

Typed and submitted too quickly. Meant to say it's not crazy to think he'll improve in that regard. Harden was averaging under 6 assists his first two years in Houston playing nearly 40 minutes and improved each season before the D'Antoni hire. With his dribble-drive ability the opportunities would be there. I'd help if the Suns weren't a horrendous 3pt shooting team.

Harden didn't get moved to PG until last year, Irving has been playing PG his whole career.

 

[pokerface]

Hey any player is good for the right price. I think most of us feel the cost for Irving is way too high.... especially on a two year contract.

We need to roll with what we have and not get impatient....and stupid. Watching a team grow and maybe develop into stardom is pretty good. At least we have hope and some VERY interesting players.

 

[overseascardfan]

Man, this needs to be over with already.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You all might consider watching the Cavs offense from this year. Kyrie would bring the ball up the court and make one pass. He rarely drove or shot the ball at that point. Usually that pass was to LeBron, who functioned as the pg for the rest of the half court set, which Kyrie functioned more as a sg. This Christmas day game is a good example.

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Kyrie passed the ball over and over again to wide open players who either passed again or clanked a shot. If he were playing in the Suns offense, he would have more assists, I am convinced.

However, his defense is appalling.

 

[Finito]

Man, this needs to be over with already.

Yup

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You think he's better than Harden, who was a PG last year, and Westbrook? Even IT had more of an impact on his team last year. I don't see Kyrie as a top 5 PG and struggle to understand how someone sees him as top 3, ahead of 3 guys who finished in the top 5 of the MVP race, including the winner of that award.

Harden wasn't listed as PG in his age 24 season so I didn't count him, it is a fair question though. Last year was his age 27 season so at 28 this year he will basically peak as a player.

Out of curiousity here is Harden's age 24 season:

25.4 PPG 6.1 Assists 4.7 rebounds .456 FG .366 3 Point .866 ft 3.6 turnovers

Kyrie

25.2 PPG 5.8 assists 3.2 rebounds .473 FG .401 3 Point .905 ft 2.5 turnovers

So using Harden's age 24 season, Kyrie is:

-0.2 PPG -0.3 APG -1.5 RPG +0.17% FG +0.35 3 PT% -1.1 TPG



That is crazy close.

 

[JCSunsfan]

As I have been watching Cavs games, I can see why Kyrie might be frustrated. He was quite efficient when taking over himself, but when trying to involve teammates there was a lot of bad shooting or the ball just went out of his hands for the rest of the possession.

Offensively, I like the idea of Kyrie being here, and I do not think he will be a ball-stopper. But his defense is almost non-existent.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Harden wasn't listed as PG in his age 24 season so I didn't count him, it is a fair question though. Last year was his age 27 season so at 28 this year he will basically peak as a player.

Out of curiousity here is Harden's age 24 season:

25.4 PPG 6.1 Assists 4.7 rebounds .456 FG .366 3 Point .866 ft 3.6 turnovers

Kyrie

25.2 PPG 5.8 assists 3.2 rebounds .473 FG .401 3 Point .905 ft 2.5 turnovers

So using Harden's age 24 season, Kyrie is:

-0.2 PPG -0.3 APG -1.5 RPG +0.17% FG +0.35 3 PT% -1.1 TPG



That is crazy close.

How about this. Steve Nash's 24-25 year old season.

8.6 ppg, 4.9 assists, 2.2 rebounds, .477 fg, .403 3pt, .882 ft, 1.8 TO (27.4 mpg)

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Nash is the super anomoly. The only guy who got better after 30

 

[JCSunsfan]

Nash is the super anomoly. The only guy who got better after 30

It was about the system. It was perfect for him.

 

[Mainstreet]

It seems like Irving is a better scorer than Bledsoe and not much else at this point in time. They are close to even is assists. Irving gets about 1 assist more per game.

Irving may get better and better but Bledsoe has improved every season as well. If the Suns can acquire Irving in a reasonable trade to get a "star" on the roster, so be it.

However, if Bledsoe did not have some past history of injury, I would not be looking to trade him for Irving. I'm not convinced the Suns gain this much. The Suns also keep their assets to trade for a player of opportunity at the trade deadline or next summer.

Also Bledsoe will probably cost the Suns less in two years and I'm inclined to believe the Suns have a better chance to keep him. I'm not overly impressed by the age argument.

 

[Raze]

As I have been watching Cavs games, I can see why Kyrie might be frustrated. He was quite efficient when taking over himself, but when trying to involve teammates there was a lot of bad shooting or the ball just went out of his hands for the rest of the possession.

Offensively, I like the idea of Kyrie being here, and I do not think he will be a ball-stopper. But his defense is almost non-existent.

It's the last line that's the scariest. He's a terrible compliment to Booker defensively. And this debate we're all having lends us to at least question if he'll be a good compliment on offense. So for the sake of argument, let's say he's a questionably good compliment on offense.

In summary:

Questionably good compliment on O.
Terrible compliment on D.

I think it's fair to say that Bledsoe is already a good compliment on O and D. Plus he's a proven leader who wants to be here. Plus, he cost less. I don't see the overall gain for the Suns in this trade.

 

[Folster]

Tomorrow is the first day that Reed can be traded. That's the only rules-related reason for a delay if a deal has already been struck. No deal tomorrow means we're probably in for a few more weeks of negotiation and speculation until Irving is moved somewhere.

Training camps don't open until late September so this could drag on for a while.

 

[Hoop Head]

Yet another reason not to make a trade for him...

http://thebiglead.com/2017/08/02/ky...the-suns-leaving-the-cavs-in-a-terrible-spot/