Lakers @ Suns 3-18-16- most important game of the season?

AzStevenCal

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I'm sure some people will freak about this win but what are you gonna do? When you shoot 36% from the field and under 27% from the 3 point line and still win you just have to tip your hat to the level of suckage the Lakers bring to the court. Hopefully we'll return the favor when they come to our house.
 

leclerc

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Is Archie in the doghouse? Why is Price subbing before Archie?
 

JS22

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Yes, that's exactly what he is suggesting, and he isn't the only one. For the life of me, I cannot understand the people who want to throw games.

Exactly. I can barely read the game threads since it's the same 4-5 people bitching about the Suns coaches and players not purposely throwing games so they can get an extra ping-pong ball or two.

Of course I want them to lose every game from here on out. But I have to laugh that people are actually ANGRY that Watson isn't purposely throwing games. Guy is coaching for his job. I'm sure it would go over well around the league if Watson were to, as previously suggested, draw up a play for Chandler to take a 3 at the end of the game instead of Teletovic. Or, maybe even better, pull guys that are on a hot streak and give them some rest as a "reward." Are you kidding me?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Guys look at the minutes distributions for both teams. Our squads best players logging mid-30s to 40 mins. Their players all playing in low 20s, even their scrubs. That's not an accident. That's how you tank. Suns are an incredibly stupid organization.
 

SirStefan32

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Exactly. I can barely read the game threads since it's the same 4-5 people bitching about the Suns coaches and players not purposely throwing games so they can get an extra ping-pong ball or two.

Of course I want them to lose every game from here on out. But I have to laugh that people are actually ANGRY that Watson isn't purposely throwing games. Guy is coaching for his job. I'm sure it would go over well around the league if Watson were to, as previously suggested, draw up a play for Chandler to take a 3 at the end of the game instead of Teletovic. Or, maybe even better, pull guys that are on a hot streak and give them some rest as a "reward." Are you kidding me?

Yeah, I just don't get it. They are going to end up with the third-worst record either way, and it's all luck anyway- they could finish last and end up picking fourth. Let the youngsters play and fight to win. If it costs us a few ping pong balls, so be it!
 
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sunsfan88

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Guys look at the minutes distributions for both teams. Our squads best players logging mid-30s to 40 mins. Their players all playing in low 20s, even their scrubs. That's not an accident. That's how you tank. Suns are an incredibly stupid organization.

^this.

Some people think tanking means telling players to miss shots on purpose....no, that's definitely not it. And you don't tell the coach to tell players to score on the other basket either.

It's about things like minute distributions. Lakers didn't have ONE player playing 30 mins or more last night. Suns had FOUR.

Suns would have had a better excuse than them to give our players rest....because we were on the 2nd night of a back to back!

Kupchak is a guy that has built numerous championship teams. I have no doubt he gave some advice to Scott about minute distribution in these type of games. Suns should be taking notes if they ever want Kupchak has imo....championships.
 
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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Yeah, I just don't get it. They are going to end up with the third-worst record either way, and it's all luck anyway- they could finish last and end up picking fourth. Let the youngsters play and fight to win. If it costs us a few ping pong balls, so be it!

At this rate they are going to end up with the fourth worst record, costing them chances at a top two pick. All so Alex Len can go 1-9 for 2pts and booker can go 3-18. Great learning experience. Meanwhile the lakers youngs played 10-20 mins less and still got experience, and much needed loss. Which team has had more historical success? Oh yeah the team that knows what it takes. Not the Suns. *********.
 

SirStefan32

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At this rate they are going to end up with the fourth worst record, costing them chances at a top two pick. All so Alex Len can go 1-9 for 2pts and booker can go 3-18. Great learning experience. Meanwhile the lakers youngs played 10-20 mins less and still got experience, and much needed loss. Which team has had more historical success? Oh yeah the team that knows what it takes. Not the Suns. *********.

What the hell kind of a question is that? Of course it's the one in the largest market. The one that managed to get guys like Abdul Jabar, Magic, Kobe, Shaq, etc. I don't really care about historical success. I am more concerned with the young guys developing, getting experience, and learning how to win. They played like crap and found a way to win- I'll take it.
 

AzStevenCal

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Guys look at the minutes distributions for both teams. Our squads best players logging mid-30s to 40 mins. Their players all playing in low 20s, even their scrubs. That's not an accident. That's how you tank. Suns are an incredibly stupid organization.

Their best players are the ones that got them buried on the scoreboard and Scott replaced them with players that were willing to play hard. I think they have a mini-revolt going with some of their future stars, they don't appear to like Scott. And the Lakers get back into that game because of those "scrubs". Our starters, our big minute players made 24 of 68 shots, that's quality tanking. And do we really have anyone that distinguishes himself from the scrubs?
 

AzStevenCal

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At this rate they are going to end up with the fourth worst record, costing them chances at a top two pick. All so Alex Len can go 1-9 for 2pts and booker can go 3-18. Great learning experience. Meanwhile the lakers youngs played 10-20 mins less and still got experience, and much needed loss. Which team has had more historical success? Oh yeah the team that knows what it takes. Not the Suns. *********.

Len only played 28 minutes and has missed far too much time already. Resting him now seems like the wrong move to me. And Booker went 5 - 18 but it looks to me like you're trying to have it both ways. Leaving a player on the court that's shooting a lot but only making 28% of them sounds like a great tanking move. And Knight wasn't much better shooting 35% for the game.
 

JS22

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At this rate they are going to end up with the fourth worst record, costing them chances at a top two pick. All so Alex Len can go 1-9 for 2pts and booker can go 3-18. Great learning experience. Meanwhile the lakers youngs played 10-20 mins less and still got experience, and much needed loss. Which team has had more historical success? Oh yeah the team that knows what it takes. Not the Suns. *********.

Oh please. If the Suns were giving Len and Booker less than 20 minutes a game this board would be in meltdown mode.
 

elindholm

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Of course I want them to lose every game from here on out. But I have to laugh that people are actually ANGRY that Watson isn't purposely throwing games. Guy is coaching for his job. I'm sure it would go over well around the league if Watson were to, as previously suggested, draw up a play for Chandler to take a 3 at the end of the game instead of Teletovic.

Also, you have to remember that almost no one currently on the roster, never mind the coach, will be around to enjoy the fruits of a tank. Let's say the Suns get the #1 overall pick and another high pick next year. Most likely, it will be at least 2019 before the team starts to look any good. Probably Booker will still be on the team then, and maybe a couple of other guys, but the rest will be long gone. So what's their incentive to sacrifice their own integrity in order to benefit a future roster that has nothing to do with them? It would be like burning down your house so that the insurance company can build a new, beautiful one in the same spot, then put a different family in there after you've moved to a different state.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Oh please. If the Suns were giving Len and Booker less than 20 minutes a game this board would be in meltdown mode.

I love when you guys put words in my mouth. Saying I don't think they should be playing 35-40 mins does NOT equate to they should okay less than 20 mins. But if you've got to exaggerate to try to win an argument, I guess you're entitled. The young guys should play 20-30 mins and the sets should be designed not around winning but rather developing their particular skills.
 

Cheesebeef

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Yeah, I just don't get it. They are going to end up with the third-worst record either way, and it's all luck anyway- they could finish last and end up picking fourth. Let the youngsters play and fight to win. If it costs us a few ping pong balls, so be it!

yeah! so what if it lessens our chances of actually getting the impact player we NEED! Let's get a couple more completely meaningless Ws and really enjoy the rest of the season!

man... I just don't get how people are fine with continually being out of the playoffs, not competitive, all so we can win some meaningless games at the end of a terrible season, actually finding ways to make that season WORSE.

Oh... and then there's this... from the "leader" of the team:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...-chandler-says-he-wants-no-part-of-rebuilding

Dumpster fire. Blaze on!
 

JS22

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To clarify once more, I don't enjoy the wins. I'm disappointed each time they pull one out. I just find it funny that some take it as far as getting angry when the coaches and players don't purposely throw the games. It's not gonna happen. So why get so upset about it? You can't just pull a player when he's hot and say it's a "reward" for playing so well. (Actually suggested a few weeks back.) And you can't draw up a play for Chandler to take a 3 at the end of the game so it hopefully doesn't go in. (Another suggestion.) Could you imagine that huddle when Watson draws up a play for Chandler?

THAT is what I'm referring to. Bordering on insanity really. Meanwhile, I'll be happy when guys like Len and Booker have good games and the rest of the team shows some effort. But hopefully in a loss.
 
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StreetTruckinTitan

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yeah! so what if it lessens our chances of actually getting the impact player we NEED! Let's get a couple more completely meaningless Ws and really enjoy the rest of the season!

man... I just don't get how people are fine with continually being out of the playoffs, not competitive, all so we can win some meaningless games at the end of a terrible season, actually finding ways to make that season WORSE.

Oh... and then there's this... from the "leader" of the team:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...ndler-says-he-wants-no-part-of-rebuilding[/B]

Dumpster fire. Blaze on!

Good. Package Chandler with Knight, Pj and Goodwyn. Should be able to get a decent player in return.
 
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JS22

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I love when you guys put words in my mouth. Saying I don't think they should be playing 35-40 mins does NOT equate to they should okay less than 20 mins. But if you've got to exaggerate to try to win an argument, I guess you're entitled. The young guys should play 20-30 mins and the sets should be designed not around winning but rather developing their particular skills.

I read that as "20 minutes or less" initially. So my apologies for being entitled, whatever that means. I don't quite understand though. You are basically saying that you want Watson to not put any effort towards winning? Can you develop sets to maximize Booker and Len without doing so?

Watson is a young coach trying to make a name for himself. He's going to do everything he can to win. I can't be mad about that. Everyone here would do the same thing. Fortunately this roster is terrible enough to prevent him from winning all that often.
 

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Of course Watson wants to win that's the problem, he should have been directed by upper management to play the young guys certain minutes 20-30 is fine. But the ultimate thing is they should have said we don't need to be winning games and if he doesn't want to do that name a different interim. I personally don't give a crap about Watson trying to show the league he can coach that's not the TEAMS goal or damn well shouldn't be! I would rather they get their doors blown off the rest of the season if your gonna tank at least do it right. No not the Suns they want to win games to ultimately screw themselves out of possibly top 2 pick just stupid from top to bottom apparently.
 

BC867

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Of course Watson wants to win that's the problem, he should have been directed by upper management to play the young guys certain minutes 20-30 is fine. But the ultimate thing is they should have said we don't need to be winning games and if he doesn't want to do that name a different interim. I personally don't give a crap about Watson trying to show the league he can coach that's not the TEAMS goal or damn well shouldn't be! I would rather they get their doors blown off the rest of the season if your gonna tank at least do it right. No not the Suns they want to win games to ultimately screw themselves out of possibly top 2 pick just stupid from top to bottom apparently.
We've seen mixed opinions on this issue of tanking.

To me, even more important than which side I choose (and I was anti-tanking until we started losing so badly even without tanking), is the issue that the guys at the top -- Sarver and McDonough -- seem to both be, as I've posted before, THE MAN WITHOUT A PLAN.

No team is going to succeed with leaders devoid of the insight and skills to set a plan, then carry it out. Over-using our best players (especially with prevalent injuries and our best player being 19) is not a plan to get a higher draft pick. And, it has certainly not been the case to make the playoffs.

THE MAN WITHOUT A PLAN. Our team is being run by incompetents. That is not easy to root for game after game, season after season.

How I wish there were something positive to say about it.

Other than the emergence of Booker (far greater than anyone's expectations), can anyone come up with anything positive to report about this season? Or the one before it. Or the one before it.
 

SirStefan32

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We've seen mixed opinions on this issue of tanking.

To me, even more important than which side I choose (and I was anti-tanking until we started losing so badly even without tanking), is the issue that the guys at the top -- Sarver and McDonough -- seem to both be, as I've posted before, THE MAN WITHOUT A PLAN.

No team is going to succeed with leaders devoid of the insight and skills to set a plan, then carry it out. Over-using our best players (especially with prevalent injuries and our best player being 19) is not a plan to get a higher draft pick. And, it has certainly not been the case to make the playoffs.

THE MAN WITHOUT A PLAN. Our team is being run by incompetents. That is not easy to root for game after game, season after season.

How I wish there were something positive to say about it.

Other than the emergence of Booker (far greater than anyone's expectations), can anyone come up with anything positive to report about this season? Or the one before it. Or the one before it.

Len and Warren (before he got hurt) took a big step forward as well. In the Watson era, Suns have played big. Again, post Morris/ Hornacek, chemistry has been very good. We'll also get an early and a late lottery pick. Oh, and Morris twins are gone.

I am happy with this season. Add a couple of good youngsters through draft, continue treating Booker, Len, and Warren as the big three, add a real PF, get rid of the combo guards and replace them with an actual point guard. Next season could be fun!
 

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Correct some positives but huge negative if they screw up getting a top pick to win meaningless games!
 

leclerc

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Good. Package Chandler with Knight, Pj and Goodwyn. Should be able to get a decent player in return.

Not many teams are trading quality for quantity unless they can't afford or don't want to sign a player demanding a max contract. So I guess we have to look at teams that have established stars and sign young dudes from their supporting cast. Like Harden or Joe Johnson when they signed with Houston and Atlanta.
 

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Good. Package Chandler with Knight, Pj and Goodwyn. Should be able to get a decent player in return.

Whose going to give up a decent player for an over the hill C making too much money, a tweener G who's bombed off THREE teams and makes a TON of money and two role players? Quantity does not equal quality. That's a bunch of garbage up there.
 

BC867

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Whose going to give up a decent player for an over the hill C making too much money, a tweener G who's bombed off THREE teams and makes a TON of money and two role players? Quantity does not equal quality. That's a bunch of garbage up there.
Perhaps, and I agree with you that it is highly unlikely, a team who could use a veteran backup Center/positive clubhouse leader; an instant offense tweener Guard coming off the bench (without the embarrassment of being demoted by his own team); a backup bulky Small Forward who can be tenacious on defense if coming off the bench and with a corner 3-point shot (also without the embarrassment of being demoted by his own team); and a Wing who can also provide instant offense off the bench .

Yeah, I agree with you. Too much to hope for. If McDonough could use his connections and pull it off, he will have arrived as a GM.
 

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Good. Package Chandler with Knight, Pj and Goodwyn. Should be able to get a decent player in return.

They could probably get 1 start quality player and rotation player for those 4 at best. They won't get a superstar, that's pretty much certain. Cleveland is always on the hunt for a Center/Rim Protecter and is in "Win Now" mode with Lebron there. Maybe something can be done there. We could flip Chandler, Knight, Tucker, and Goodwin for Tristan Thompson, Iman Shumpert, and Channing Frye in the offseason? Chandler gives Cleveland a legit Center/Rim Protecter allowing Love and Lebron to play at their natural positions. Chandler is just as good of a rebounder, if not better, than Tristan is plus he has more size and is able to alter shots in the paint. Chandler allows them to play a more traditional lineup plus he's capable of running if they had to face to Golden State. Chandler would be a solid addition vs Golden State or San Antonio. Chandler's scoring isn't needed at all in Cleveland with their big 3 but getting fed lobs from Lebron, Kyrie, and Love would most likely up his scoring compared to this season. Everyone they receive in the trade would help them win now also. Chandler brings along championship experience also, having won with Dallas against Lebron. Knight could play SG along side Kyrie and helps provide some injury insurance for their guard spots overall. He's be a more reliable option than either Shumpert or Smith. Plus he'd be the 3rd playmaker behind Lebron and Irving so his turnovers should go down. If Kyrie misses a chunk of time due to injury Knight can help fill in better than Delly does now and he still wouldn't have to be the primary playmaker/ball handler. Tucker is a cheaper version of Shumpert, wing defender who can knock down open 3's. He is a better rebounder than Shumpert is but a better defender one on one. Shumpert is a better passer and ball handler but with all of the options on that team he would almost never need to handle the ball much except during put-backs. Frye is overpaid and outside of giving some veteran leadership he doesn't have any skills that aren't replaceable in Cleveland. He can help run the pick & roll or pick & pop, that's basically it. Love is a much better option when it comes to that and Chandler is better as the roller. Goodwin is kind of a throw-in as they don't need anyone at his position. Cleveland would probably take him because his salary is minimal, he can play PG or SG there, attack the basket, and gives them some size in the backcourt. Plus Tucker's deal is only partially guaranteed so if they decide to dump him for whatever reason they'd still have a 3rd player from the deal. Cleveland doesn't have a 1st rounder this year so a player like Goodwin wouldn't be a bad add for them at all as a throw in.

Knight is 24, Tucker is 30, and Chandler 33 while Thompson and Shumpert are each 25 and Frye is 32. The Suns get a little younger overall, Cleveland a little older, but nobodies age is an issue considering where each team is. Cleveland has about 3-4 more years on their window if they keep Lebron there. Chandler can help for at least 1 probably 2 of those years. Knight should be entering his prime when Lebron is slowing down a good bit but he's about the same age as Irving and they could make for a dangerous backcourt in years to come. Worst case is that Knight plays 6th man, which I see him accepting for a legit title contender better than he would in Phoenix. Chandler is one less offensive player to worry about touches with while providing a boost defensively. Knight can take whatever is left over after Lebron, Love, and Irving, which won't be that much if he starts but should be enough off the bench. Given Love and Kyrie's health history they can rest players a bit more with Knight there to lessen the load. Cleveland should be very familiar with him since he played in Milwaukee and Detroit, both in the Cavs division.

Thompson and Knight will each have 4 years left on their deals, Tristan is making about 1 million more a season. Shumpert and Chandler both have 3 years left on their deals and Chandler makes 4 million more a year. Frye has 2 years while Tucker's deal is partially guaranteed. Fry is making 8 million per and Tucker is set to make 5. So adding those with Chandler and Shumpert and things are really even salary wise, Cleveland actually gets money off the books faster, which will help with repeater taxes and such. Adding 2 younger players to grow with Len, Booker, and Bledsoe is a plus. Thompson fills a position of need. Shumpert gives the team depth and fills the need for a 3 & D wing player. Thompson should be no less than a 6th man/first big off the bench even if we win the lottery. Having him allows the team bring along their rookie a little slower though. It's not like they'll be competing next season. Thompson shares the same agent as Bledsoe as well so hopefully that helps keep things nice and calm here with no unexpected chemistry issues. Shumpert could back up either wing position well enough and Frye gives them a little more depth in the front court. Frye also allows them to let Teletovic walk without hesitation since they're very similar players skill wise. Frye is taller which helps him get his shot off easier and stumble into more rebounds. Neither is a good defender or rebounder but we know that Frye can provide veteran leadership plus he's a casual fan favorite. Die hard fans grew to hate him during his last year here but I think they'd welcome him back with open arms after the mess we've had at PF since he's been gone.

That would give the Suns a rotation of...

Len/Leuer/Frye
Thompson/Frye/Leuer
Warren/Shumpert/FREE AGENT or ROOKIE
Booker/Shumpert/FREE AGENT or ROOKIE
Bledsoe/FREE AGENT or ROOKIE



*Leuer can play both PF & C, spread the court with his shooting, and is a better rebounder and defender than Frye is. If he's cheap to retain he's definitely worth it due to his age as well as building consistency. He's the only free agent the team has that I think they should definitely retain. We should be able to replace the rest through the draft or free agency. Maybe keep Ronnie Price on a minimum deal as a 3rd string PG.
 

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