Lakers would be better off with Gortat

[slinslin]

So overrated he took an average at best supporting cast to the finals.

The only way you don't max out Howard might be because of injury concerns. Other than that there are only a few other max players and I doubt it is realistic to spend your money on more than 1 of those guys so maxing out Howard certainly is a good move.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Agreed.

Steve

We'll see. It's not like a Chris Paul/Lebron/Durant is coming here under any circumstances. We'll get crap max players at best. Howard is about the best we could hope for. Considering his health issues, it may be worth looking into.

 

[SirStefan32]

We'll see. It's not like a Chris Paul/Lebron/Durant is coming here under any circumstances. We'll get crap max players at best. Howard is about the best we could hope for. Considering his health issues, it may be worth looking into.

I'd challenge anyone who wants Howard in the Suns uniform to do two things:

1. Review all the drama from his Orlando days. Do you really want your "star" to constantly demand trades, coaches to be fired, etc? He is already complaining about the Lakers not playing "inside-out".

2. Next time the Lakers are playing, don't watch the game- watch Howard. AzStevenCal suggested doing that with Scola, and it was amazing to me how much I noticed when I was just watching Scola. Howard does some great things, but he makes so many mistakes.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I'd challenge anyone who wants Howard in the Suns uniform to do two things:

1. Review all the drama from his Orlando days. Do you really want your "star" to constantly demand trades, coaches to be fired, etc? He is already complaining about the Lakers not playing "inside-out".

Absolutely not, but he did take a team to a Finals, and is really the only dominant center when healthy. (Which obviously remains to be seen, although he has a better chance here than anywhere else)

2. Next time the Lakers are playing, don't watch the game- watch Howard. AzStevenCal suggested doing that with Scola, and it was amazing to me how much I noticed when I was just watching Scola. Howard does some great things, but he makes so many mistakes.

Of course, he's far from a perfect option, but beggars can't be choosers. We have the most toxic situation in the NBA, and no wart free star will come here. If we have to take a risk with Howard, it'll be far better than the drek we'll attract otherwise.

 

[overseascardfan]

Why give up anything for Howard when he will bolt in 4 months. Unless he signs an extension before a deal then continue the course we are on and hope LA keeps him and continues to lose in order to secure 2 lottery picks.

 

[desertdawg]

Howard will brick his "decision"

Now that it's all poopoo in LA, Howard won't talk to Pau, Kobe ball hoggin the brick-a-thon, and the record is worse than my high school love life. It would be the dumbest thing in the world to trade for Howard, this guy is already setting up his Lebron moment now that LA aint clicking. Howard won't sign a longterm, so LA will have a super hard time trading that mistake. I think it's funny though because his stock has dropped tenfold since being a Laker. That dude has single handedly messed up the Lakers this year, and they wanted him.

 

[wagon mound 464]

Howard can't make free-throws,,,,,worse than Shaq. He brings too much drama to the locker room.......

I don't see Sarver's name attached to a $100 million contract with any player.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Oh I don't dispute that Howard is better than Gortat. I didn't realize my post would come across that way. Howard is a much better player than Gortat.
My argument is that there are better ways to spend money than max out Dwight Howard.

I am not sure about that. Who else would you spend max money on if not Howard. He seems to be injured this year. That would have to be checked out, but we still have our medical staff.

We could just wait for the summer and sign him as a free agent. I am not sure what trading for him now would gain us, except the right to spend more on him in the summer and the chance of losing Gortat for nothing.

 

[Neo]

They should then trade Pao Gasol for Boris Diaw.

:chronic:

I know this was meant to be ironic, but it almost seems prophetic. Starting Earl Clark in front of Gasol is a close to this as the Lakers could achieve under the CBA. His nbadraft.net profile compared him to a the Big Croissant.

Pringles is starting a poor-man's Boris Diaw over one of the best front rim players in the game.

 

[Covert Rain]

I am not sure about that. Who else would you spend max money on if not Howard. He seems to be injured this year. That would have to be checked out, but we still have our medical staff.

We could just wait for the summer and sign him as a free agent. I am not sure what trading for him now would gain us, except the right to spend more on him in the summer and the chance of losing Gortat for nothing.

I don't get this either. I would still take Howard in a heartbeat. With our medical staff and the fact that he still has a bunch of mileage left why not. If you build around Howard versus adding him to your team, it gives you the opportunity to build around his deficiencies.

If Howard is not worthy of the Suns signing him to a max contract, I am not sure who is. You are not getting LeBron.

 

[desertdawg]

Howard knows aint nobody going to trade for him if he doesn't sign a multi year, and he knows that initial lust in LA is over, it will not grow into a strong healthy relationship. Lakers would have been better off getting Gortat for the team and coach they have, they'd be going to the playoffs no doubt. Just goes to show the better player aint always the answer if they don't fit the outfit. If I'm rocking nikey from head to toe, the gucci socks will throw everything off.

 

[Phrazbit]

Other than making them a much worse defensive team I dont really see how getting Gortat helps them. D'Antoni still wouldnt let 2 bigs play in the post at the same time, and while Howard certainly has flaws in his game he is better than Gortat at everything but free throw shooting.

As badly as the Dwight trade has blown up in their face he is the only thing that keeps them even remotely respectable on defense.

 

[desertdawg]

Other than making them a much worse defensive team I dont really see how getting Gortat helps them. D'Antoni still wouldnt let 2 bigs play in the post at the same time, and while Howard certainly has flaws in his game he is better than Gortat at everything but free throw shooting.

As badly as the Dwight trade has blown up in their face he is the only thing that keeps them even remotely respectable on defense.

El Wrong O.

When Howard was in Orlando the ball went through him in a half court game, that's why when Gortat got subbed in, he didn't do much to talk about. The when the Suns picked the machine up, his play dramatically improved with the fast tempo and Steve Nash teaching him the pick and roll (from way up top on the key), the dish and go, and the (although he never dunked them) alli-upes (?). Same system Dantoni was trying to set up with Nash-Kobe-Howard....and that's when Howard looks like Gortat did in Orlando, even stat wise. Pau would have done a ton better too, he would have been able to get in his comfort zone, the erea Howard "dominates" with his gamestyle.

Gortat in this type of system helps everybody out, Nash, Kobe, Pau, and maybe even keeps Dantoni's job safe and secure. Howard is a square peg in a dramatic circle, it was never going to work once Dantoni impemented his thing, it canceled out all of Howards values and highlights his weaknesses. Gortat worked extra hard to get down court before Nash so he could set that pick that sparked our offense, teams couldn't get set on D.

Go watch Howard with the Lakers, he will be the last man down the court even when he doesn't inbound the rock. LA would be going to the playoffs right now, Gortat has thrived in this same system with this same point guard, your basically just adding Kobe-Pau-Metta and dumping Dudley, Grant Hill, and Channing Frye.....

 

[Budden]

Basically, this is what you get with Dwight Howard:

http://youtu.be/1cOhwSH1FYg

If he's a rookie, you say, "Great block! Once he gets a better feel for the game, he'll know how to turn a great block into a great stop." Unfortunately, Howard's not a rookie. There's no best definition for a "max contract" player, but been you're the focal point of a team, you need to have a total court awareness that no one else can be expected to have.

The funny thing about that clip is that, just a couple of days earlier, Howard's coach called Galloneari the best shooter he's ever coached. And for a guy who averages an assist:TO ratio a 0.53:1 (I.e. TO:Assist ratio of 3:1.6, which is literally the inverse of respectability), your best setup of the whole night can't be to the other team's most dangerous shooter. Howard is a guy who still picks up his fourth foul bumping his defender while running down the court. He demands the ball in the post (actually, insinuates in post-game that he needs more touches), but has no discernible post moves and, on the rare occasion that he makes a strong move, still brings the ball down to his waist for the Shannon Browns of world can strip it or, at a minimum, foul him and send him to the tariff line.

All this said, I'd still pay Howard the max this offseason. But I'd do this knowing full well that I will have wasted every cent of that contract if I don't sign another guy to a max deal in 2014. Otherwise, it's like taking a mortgage out on a mansion and making payments on it from my new apartment.

 

[Phrazbit]

El Wrong O.

When Howard was in Orlando the ball went through him in a half court game, that's why when Gortat got subbed in, he didn't do much to talk about. The when the Suns picked the machine up, his play dramatically improved with the fast tempo and Steve Nash teaching him the pick and roll (from way up top on the key), the dish and go, and the (although he never dunked them) alli-upes (?). Same system Dantoni was trying to set up with Nash-Kobe-Howard....and that's when Howard looks like Gortat did in Orlando, even stat wise. Pau would have done a ton better too, he would have been able to get in his comfort zone, the erea Howard "dominates" with his gamestyle.

Gortat in this type of system helps everybody out, Nash, Kobe, Pau, and maybe even keeps Dantoni's job safe and secure. Howard is a square peg in a dramatic circle, it was never going to work once Dantoni impemented his thing, it canceled out all of Howards values and highlights his weaknesses. Gortat worked extra hard to get down court before Nash so he could set that pick that sparked our offense, teams couldn't get set on D.

Go watch Howard with the Lakers, he will be the last man down the court even when he doesn't inbound the rock. LA would be going to the playoffs right now, Gortat has thrived in this same system with this same point guard, your basically just adding Kobe-Pau-Metta and dumping Dudley, Grant Hill, and Channing Frye.....

Except that offense is not the Lakers problem. They are scoring plenty, they have the same problem every Mike D team does... defense, and Gortat for Howard would only make them worse in that department.

 

[desertdawg]

Except that offense is not the Lakers problem. They are scoring plenty, they have the same problem every Mike D team does... defense, and Gortat for Howard would only make them worse in that department.

No worries amigo, I see it differently.

 

[desertdawg]

Man I am really worried now. Howard done listened and figured out the pick at the top of the key, and the benefits of getting down the court quicker. Gave him an easy game last night and he didn't even have to work hard to get it.

It wasn't about Kobe not shooting in the first half, and bricking most of his shots in the second. It was all about Dwightie setting it up for Kobe, Nash, and even Blake up at the top...and it all happened against the friggin suns to boot. Couldn't have happened at a worse time, I doubt the Fakers planned on moving Howard but the deadline was coming quick, and Howard was plain playing dead.

This could be the spark that drops that draft pick we was already tasting and salavating on. This means they could get their act together and get Pau back before the playoffs. They aint getting no ring or nothing, but they probably just jumped back into respectability and a chance to even upset a team if Howard builds on what he started last night...makes me want to puke. I guess it all depends on if Howard wants to win, he can dominate if he wants to.

 

[Phrazbit]

Well, we didnt employ Dwight Howard Defense 101. He gets the ball in a position to score and you foul him... immediately. He is so bad at shooting free throws he does not even want to get to the line so it keeps him from getting engaged in the game.

Virtually ever team they play does it to him and for some dumb reason we didnt.

 

[desertdawg]

Well, we didnt employ Dwight Howard Defense 101. He gets the ball in a position to score and you foul him... immediately. He is so bad at shooting free throws he does not even want to get to the line so it keeps him from getting engaged in the game.

Virtually ever team they play does it to him and for some dumb reason we didnt.

You still don't get it vato, when Howard sets the pick from the top and then shoots to the bucket, he isn't sitting around with his hands up waiting for the ball while the defense is sitting around waiting for him to get the ball.

Now he will be moving, getting seperation, and only possesing the ball for a minimal amount of time before he goes up with it. I'm talking easy uncontested put ups and dunks, same way Gortat made his bread and butter. They've been asking Howard to do it since he got there, but instead he continued to walk up the court, sitting, pouting, and not even expecting to get the ball.

I saw an LA team gel last night and it wasn't just because they were playing the suns. Howard was smiling, Kobe was laughing, and the sad part is I think they were only about 4 or 5 interviews from going Denny. Now Howard feels like a Laker all of the sudden is what I saw, I remember Baby bron bron doing the same thing in miami.

If Howard keeps up that style of pick and roll with Kobe and Nash, the Fakers will finally start scoring like a Dantoni team (between 105-125 points a game dude). Scoring at will, and they will have the defense that Dwight can bring, but now he feels like part of the team and will get up and down faster because of it.

Lakers make playoffs....book it.

 

[Phrazbit]

Lakers getting annihilated by the Clippers. They might lose this game by 30.

 

[Manu4five]

They lost by 24 and the +/ of Kobe was -35 and Howard -31. Maybe they were resting for the most important game of the season or maybe they are not that great

 

[BC867]

Lakers getting annihilated by the Clippers. They might lose this game by 30.

This ties in with what I posted in another thread about the NBA no longer having to "assist" the Lakers in their quest for a championship because there are 2 teams in L.A. -- one of which is in 1st place in its Division and it's not the Lakers.

 

[Budden]

The Magic used hack-a-Dwight ("HAD") last night, and it backfired mightily for them. Dwight started 2-10 from the line, and then the Magic started using HAD, and Dwight went on to make 23 of his next 29 free throws.

I think this is an example of one of the problems of the HAD strategy. See, I'll accept that, in games, the distribution of Dwight's free throw percentages will fall around his average. However, something that people haven't considered is that Dwight shoots 80% on free throws in practice. The lakers actually track it and put the tally on a big white board, so this isn't just some story that you hear - it's a fact. To me, this means that in one set of circumstances (game), he shoots 50%. But in another set of circumstance (practice), he shoots a 80%, which obviously is a completely different percentage. When the Magic employed HAD, Dwight made 23-29 free throws. That's 79%, which basically mirrors his practice percentage.

It seems reasonable to assume that the cause of this increased FT accuracy is that the Magic unwittingly created a situation in which Dwight is a good free throw shooter. Essentially, they said, "OK, coin flips land heads 50% of the time. Dwight, take this coin and I'm betting if you flip it 40 times, you'll get heads like 50% of the time." And then they proceeded to give him a weighted coin.

Additionally, if you employ HAD consistently, you give Howard a chance to catch his breath and regain his energy. For a guy who has really struggled with his conditioning this season, giving him an energy booster ever 45 seconds isn't the best way to capitalize on that. It gives him the energy to be a beast on defense. And allowing Kobe and Nash to never have to run past half court on offense is a more effective way of ensuring that they have maximum energy in the tank come crunch time than Mike D'Antoni has come up with.

The main point here is that statistical analysis is going to lead you astray if you only consider consider the most obvious variables and ignore less available, but nevertheless causative, variables.

 

[Superbone]

I seriously don't get everybody going with Hack-a-Dwight. Hack-a-Howard works so much better alliteration-wise.

 

[desertdawg]

Yeah Howard is feeling like part of the team now, setting high screens and moving around nicely under the bucket. Metta even had his back on the interview in Orlando...they playing like a team now. Props to LA for not flushing the toilet right away, I wish they had though, we'd be getting a sweet draft pick.