Latest Somers article re; QBs.

[Rats]

The front office probably wants Leinart to play in the worst way. They've sunk some $30 million into Leinart over these last four seasons and they've gotten 29 games total and fewer than 15 starts from him? They're essentially tossing an investment just as it may be starting to mature.

If Leinart ended up being good, the one year, $10.5 million contract that he'd earn for next year would be a bargain. If he ended up being average, he'd be a little overpaid, but not massively so.

I think your right about them wanting him to play in the past but I think they may see it as good money after bad at this point. Maybe not but if the alternative is something different I would rather it be the money and the looming lockout as a reason to not want to carry Matt on the roster. I guess we will see in the fullness of time.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I'm no personnel genius, but I do own my own business and you just can't crap on people and be successful in the long run.

The team may turn out ok this year, but this is amateur hour. It just seems that it has epic fail written all over it. The FO seems to have made strides to shed the image that they have stopped handling business in this phony ass way, but this is a giant step backwards in that regard whether this turns out to be true or not.

This is precisely my point of view.

 

[Red Dawn]

There is something really odd about all of this!!! I cant help but think something happened that has not gone public yet.

Was Matty partying with Paris Hilton in Vegas Friday night?

 

[conraddobler]

Well nothing changes my opinon Matt has certainly done enough to get the start, he's done that much if not more.

I'd be fine if he lost the job because he didn't perform on the field but to go down on any kind of political issue like it appears to me to be is just nauseating.

I'm not going to change teams, I'm not jumping off a building but it still sucks.

It ain't right no matter who thinks it is but not much I can do about it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well nothing changes my opinon Matt has certainly done enough to get the start, he's done that much if not more.

I'd be fine if he lost the job because he didn't perform on the field but to go down on any kind of political issue like it appears to me to be is just nauseating.

I'm not going to change teams, I'm not jumping off a building but it still sucks.

It ain't right no matter who thinks it is but not much I can do about it.

This seems to be the consensus here and I just don't get it. Oh, I think Matt should be the starter but it's only because of how poorly DA has looked and not on anything Matt has done. We always struggle in preseason but IMO we've looked even worse this year than usual and on the whole it's been against weaker competition that we've faced the past several years.

Unless something starts to come together with the line and the run game I could care less who we start at QB because it's just not going to matter. Sure, we showed some signs of life against the Bears but how much of that was us and how much of that was a defense missing much of it's talent? I think this QB distraction is the only thing keeping the focus away from how woeful we've looked thus far.

Steve

 

[bankybruce]

LOL, I can't believe someone did that, too funny.

Be careful, it gets you banned.

 

[CaptTurbo]

If I am Matt I walk out if he isnt starting week 1. To heck with Whiz if I was him. Let Max Hall be the back up. Wait to be released or traded.

 

[MrYeahBut]

If I am Matt I walk out if he isnt starting week 1

I don't think you can go 'Scottie Pippen' and just refuse to enter the game. It's not like Matt is a bonafide star and could get away with it. IMO, he would have zero value on the open market

 

[TJ]

It's not like I've been a huge Matt lover but I really thought he would at the very least be a serviceable QB on a good team. To dump him for Anderson , who hardly anyone sees as anything other than maybe an average backup, just boggles my mind.

I'm no personnel genius, but I do own my own business and you just can't crap on people and be successful in the long run.

The team may turn out ok this year, but this is amateur hour. It just seems that it has epic fail written all over it. The FO seems to have made strides to shed the image that they have stopped handling business in this phony ass way, but this is a giant step backwards in that regard whether this turns out to be true or not.

100% agree. There are two perspectives I take on this:

1) From the Matty perspective. Obviously for him this is extremely frustrating for him. The guy has outperformed a historically unreliable QB (a Brown's castoff none the less) and he is getting the shaft from the coaches and the fans. If I were to venture a guess, even if Leinart wins the job and succeeds, I dont see a situation where he even wants to re-sign with us. And if he does not win the job, he should request a trade to someone who would appreciate him. I said this in another thread but a change of scenery would probably help him mentally, especially if he goes to play for Carrol in Seattle. All he can do at this point is play his ass off in game 4 of the preseason and see where the chips fall

2) From the perspective of a life long fan. I am one of the firm believers of the, "in Whiz we trust" mantra. But that doesnt mean I cant criticize some of his moves. The manner in which is being handled is frustrating to say the least. Some of my friends have asked me what I think about this and I told them I refuse to discuss the situation. It is that irritating and confusing at the same time. Whis and the FO should have made the decision years ago if they didnt think he was truly the QBoF. Reason being is they could have had a better chance of trading him for decent compensation while drafting our QBoF in 2009 while Kurt was still here. If Leinart is released, we have no direct lineage from Kurt to now. If we had a rookie last season taking notes from Kurt, we would likely feel confident about said rookie QB taking the reigns in 2010. Even now, I feel Leinart is a playoff caliber QB but apparently the powers that be disagree with my sentiments.

The largest reason this probable movement is causing malaise is who the replacement is going to be. Derek Anderson scares the crap out of me. His general lack of consistency has been on display all preseason. I mean, Ive seen balls miss receivers by several yards and many go right through the hands of defenders. By all intents and purposes, DA should have more than 2 INTs. I have a feeling if he is the starter, his TD:INT is going to be frightening, which will subsequently lead to us being on the other end of close ball games.

IMO, the decision is already made and the damage is done. If DA is named the starter, I will back him only because he is the QB of my team. Ultimately, I root for the name on the front of the jersey, but the name on the back of our QB's is cause for concern.

 

[conraddobler]

Be careful, it gets you banned.

It shouldn't it was funny.

 

[conraddobler]

I don't think you can go 'Scottie Pippen' and just refuse to enter the game. It's not like Matt is a bonafide star and could get away with it. IMO, he would have zero value on the open market

His best bet would be to go to either the Seahags or the 49ers and torment us for about 10 years so that it got to the point of being ridiculous.

Course it would be great TV if he would just throw down with Whiz on the sidelines, just tag him right on tv, probably bad for his career though.

 

[JeffGollin]

While I respect Kent's football insight, contacts and up-close knowledge of the Cardinal organization, I don't think his take is the last word on the QB issue. My take goes like this:

Granted, Wiz was not comfortable with the QB play. He also wanted to see more clearly what he had on his roster - i.e. how a number of promising backups would do surrounded by Cardinal starters; so he elevated D Washington, Toler and (on some plays) Dan Williams to starting roles.

He also did the same thing with Anderson/not because he was handing him the starting position, but because he wanted to see what he could do operating against opposing starters behind our #1 O-line and receivers.

Granted - If Wiz felt totally comfortable with Leinart, he probably doesn't make the move. But the fact that he made it doesn't guarantee Derek anything.

Hidden within the general commentary "that both QB's did good in Chicago" was the fact that on the very next play after taking a vicious sack, Leinart scraped himself off the turf and hit Breaston down the middle for a TD. (you want toughness and resiliancy? Leinart gave you toughness and resiliancy. You want "teammate support and chemistry?" The way Breaston sold out his body to help his QB succeed on that play suggests that Leinart has the support of his teammates.

As such (and I say this from the standpoint of not caring which guy is our starting QB - so long as he gives us the best chance to win) I think the battle for QB is at the very least wide open and quite possibly continuing to tilt in favor of Leinart.

 

[Pariah]

Didn't read the thread, so forgive me if this has already been commented on:

Teammates have all said positive things about Leinart the past few months, but when did you ever hear or read one of them say Leinart absolutely could take them to the heights Warner did?

When did you ever hear DA could take the heights Warner did? This is the dumbest measuring stick I've heard yet.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

100% agree. There are two perspectives I take on this:

1) From the Matty perspective. Obviously for him this is extremely frustrating for him. The guy has outperformed a historically unreliable QB (a Brown's castoff none the less) and he is getting the shaft from the coaches and the fans. If I were to venture a guess, even if Leinart wins the job and succeeds, I dont see a situation where he even wants to re-sign with us. And if he does not win the job, he should request a trade to someone who would appreciate him. I said this in another thread but a change of scenery would probably help him mentally, especially if he goes to play for Carrol in Seattle. All he can do at this point is play his ass off in game 4 of the preseason and see where the chips fall

2) From the perspective of a life long fan. I am one of the firm believers of the, "in Whiz we trust" mantra. But that doesnt mean I cant criticize some of his moves. The manner in which is being handled is frustrating to say the least. Some of my friends have asked me what I think about this and I told them I refuse to discuss the situation. It is that irritating and confusing at the same time. Whis and the FO should have made the decision years ago if they didnt think he was truly the QBoF. Reason being is they could have had a better chance of trading him for decent compensation while drafting our QBoF in 2009 while Kurt was still here. If Leinart is released, we have no direct lineage from Kurt to now. If we had a rookie last season taking notes from Kurt, we would likely feel confident about said rookie QB taking the reigns in 2010. Even now, I feel Leinart is a playoff caliber QB but apparently the powers that be disagree with my sentiments.

Heres the problem with that TJ. Leinart has been here for 4 years. I have been hoping (praying) he came in this offseason and just killed it from the get go. That hasn't been the case. From Somers, Urban, to Sando (who has made a comment along the lines of "Matt has done nothing to distinguish himself as a starting QB in the NFL from what I have seen in visiting TC and preseason games") he just didn't do anything. Everyone wants to talk about his limted attempts but Aaron Rodgers comes in for a quarter and throws for 3 TD's and 250 yards. You know why? Because he is legit.

The problem most of the people on this board are having with this is missing the most obvious point. ML shouldn't be "outperforming" Cleveland Browns castoff Derek Anderson this offseason. HE SHOULD BE EVICESRATING HIM.

This is why I am so pragmatic all of a sudden. If Matt really was the genuine article, we would have seen it. It hasn't happened. 1 TD on a Steve Breaston super play? Give me a f-ing break.

And thats the problem. Matts playing not to lose. Not really what I want out of my starting QB. Thats just me.

It stands to reason that if DA and him have been even close so far, that Anderson's ceiling and potential for this season is much higher then Matts,

Everyone is feeling Matt is getting screwed and I would have been in that camp the last 5 years consecutively. But enough is enough.

MSH Matt. You had your chance. You blew it. You needed to comeout and absolutely LAP the QB competetion and instead he is trying to win by a nose.

As a proverbial Matt guy the last 4 years and maybe the biggest one, at this point I am tired of fighting a lost cause.

Aren't you all tired of making excuses? Didn't you have higher expectations for him this offseason so far? I know I did. And he hasn't met them.

After watching Saturday nights game again, I'm personally excited for the Max Hall era.

Thats my new Matt

 

[MrYeahBut]

Course it would be great TV if he would just throw down with Whiz on the sidelines, just tag him right on tv, probably bad for his career though.

Maybe he could be a softer/gentler type of guy like he is portrayed and just throw a towel in his face like Horry did to Ainge

 

[Russ Smith]

Didn't read the thread, so forgive me if this has already been commented on:

When did you ever hear DA could take the heights Warner did? This is the dumbest measuring stick I've heard yet.

Yep ask the Cleveland players how confident they were in Anderson because the answer is they weren't at all.

I still think if Matt doesn't get the job it's got to be something off the field that caused it, I don't care if he didn't move the team in the 2nd game he wasn't so bad that you do a complete 180 on months of planning at the QB position.

If Whiz makes a change I'm convinced it's for non football reasons.

 

[Billy Bob]

Coach Whiz on Doug and Wolf; both QB's looked good the past game, no decision made.

 

[TJ]

Heres the problem with that TJ. Leinart has been here for 4 years. I have been hoping (praying) he came in this offseason and just killed it from the get go. That hasn't been the case. From Somers, Urban, to Sando (who has made a comment along the lines of "Matt has done nothing to distinguish himself as a starting QB in the NFL from what I have seen in visiting TC and preseason games") he just didn't do anything. Everyone wants to talk about his limted attempts but Aaron Rodgers comes in for a quarter and throws for 3 TD's and 250 yards. You know why? Because he is legit.

Comparing Rodgers and Leinart at this moment is apples and oranges. Go reference Rodger's preseason games in 2008 when he took over for Favre. Decent but nothing eye opening. Effectively, Leinart is starting fresh like Rodgers did back then. With more in vivo exposure in the offense, he'll get better IMO. Even if he doesnt, he is better than Derek and if that is the case, neither are the future. We are a a "win now" team, not a rebuilding one. I refuse to succumb to ineptitude once again.

The problem most of the people on this board are having with this is missing the most obvious point. ML shouldn't be "outperforming" Cleveland Browns castoff Derek Anderson this offseason. HE SHOULD BE EVICESRATING HIM.

Not necessarily. Remember, it is preseason. Whis uses maybe 50% of his playbook. Honestly bud, do not use preseason as a true barometer. If so, Warner would have been a bust last year and ML would be a hero.

This is why I am so pragmatic all of a sudden. If Matt really was the genuine article, we would have seen it. It hasn't happened. 1 TD on a Steve Breaston super play? Give me a f-ing break.

Again, it's preseason and even so, he has outperformed DA. DA has corroborated his scouting report: a QB with a massive arm but the propensity to turn the ball over....alot.

And thats the problem. Matts playing not to lose. Not really what I want out of my starting QB. Thats just me.

As I referenced earlier, the playbook has been stripped. Chris Miller, in an interview in the offseason, said we would be going deep. Now on the surface, this benefits DA, but Leinart can still make all of the throws 40 yards and shorter while not being a liability everywhere else

It stands to reason that if DA and him have been even close so far, that Anderson's ceiling and potential for this season is much higher then Matts,

100% disagree. Its hard to teach accuracy, especially to a QB who has historically struggled with it.

Everyone is feeling Matt is getting screwed and I would have been in that camp the last 5 years consecutively. But enough is enough.

Maybe this is true, but he is still our best option at this point

MSH Matt. You had your chance. You blew it. You needed to comeout and absolutely LAP the QB competetion and instead he is trying to win by a nose.

How did he blow it if he has been the best QB thus far in preseason?

As a proverbial Matt guy the last 4 years and maybe the biggest one, at this point I am tired of fighting a lost cause.

Aren't you all tired of making excuses? Didn't you have higher expectations for him this offseason so far? I know I did. And he hasn't met them.

Aren't you getting married next week? Sorry, had to say something irrelevant to the situation

After watching Saturday nights game again, I'm personally excited for the Max Hall era.

Thats my new Matt

I still dont get why everyone has a ***** over this guy. Im not sold on his skill set and lack of ideal physical traits, such as height. He's had good games....against future Albertson's grocery baggers. I do hope he makes the PS and wont fret if he makes the roster, but I wont get my hopes up about him being the QBoF

 

[JeffGollin]

Coach Whiz on Doug and Wolf; both QB's looked good the past game, no decision made.

Thank you for that.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Comparing Rodgers and Leinart at this moment is apples and oranges. Go reference Rodger's preseason games in 2008 when he took over for Favre. Decent but nothing eye opening. Effectively, Leinart is starting fresh like Rodgers did back then. With more in vivo exposure in the offense, he'll get better IMO. Even if he doesnt, he is better than Derek and if that is the case, neither are the future. We are a a "win now" team, not a rebuilding one. I refuse to succumb to ineptitude once again.
Not necessarily. Remember, it is preseason. Whis uses maybe 50% of his playbook. Honestly bud, do not use preseason as a true barometer. If so, Warner would have been a bust last year and ML would be a hero.

Again, it's preseason and even so, he has outperformed DA. DA has corroborated his scouting report: a QB with a massive arm but the propensity to turn the ball over....alot.

As I referenced earlier, the playbook has been stripped. Chris Miller, in an interview in the offseason, said we would be going deep. Now on the surface, this benefits DA, but Leinart can still make all of the throws 40 yards and shorter while not being a liability everywhere else

100% disagree. Its hard to teach accuracy, especially to a QB who has historically struggled with it.

Maybe this is true, but he is still our best option at this point
How did he blow it if he has been the best QB thus far in preseason?

Aren't you getting married next week? Sorry, had to say something irrelevant to the situation

I still dont get why everyone has a ***** over this guy. Im not sold on his skill set and lack of ideal physical traits, such as height. He's had good games....against future Albertson's grocery baggers. I do hope he makes the PS and wont fret if he makes the roster, but I wont get my hopes up about him being the QBoF

Independently I am not going to argue with anything you said. But for me personally - I expected him to show better. I expected as a guy who has been here and knew he was the leader (isnt that what Carroll said when ML changed at SC?) to come out and throw for 3 TD's or so and look good.

Much like Aaron Rodgers did in 2008 when he was replacing Brett Farve at the time (and THAT comes with a ton more pressure then replacing 2 years of Kurt Warner)

http://www.nfl.com/players/aaronrodgers/gamelogs?id=ROD339293&season=2008

Do I expect Matt to be the best QB in the league like I think Rodgers is? No of course not. But they came from similar backgrounds (Cali guys, Pac-10 rivals, sat behind legends for 3 years) and I expected him to have at least 3 to 4 moments where you are like "Ah-ha - thats why he is the guy"

Can you honestly say there has been one pass where you were like "Damn - not many other QB's make that pass"....if you can find it please show it to me.

Oh and Max Hall....this doesn't tell the whole story because the reason everyone loves him is his make up and moxie....but its a taste....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soogb0wC7LA

 

[TJ]

Independently I am not going to argue with anything you said. But for me personally - I expected him to show better. I expected as a guy who has been here and knew he was the leader (isnt that what Carroll said when ML changed at SC?) to come out and throw for 3 TD's or so and look good.

Ill wait until the regular season to make that distinction and comparison to his tenure at USC....if he does get the opportunity. I truly believe if he gets screwed here, which I know fully you disagree, he will be more aggressive.

Much like Aaron Rodgers did in 2008 when he was replacing Brett Farve at the time (and THAT comes with a ton more pressure then replacing 2 years of Kurt Warner)

I disagree. Replacing a player who was largely responsible for bringing a perennial loser franchise to relevancy is tougher than replacing a QB who perpetuated the historical success of the Green Bay franchise.

Do I expect Matt to be the best QB in the league like I think Rodgers is? No of course not. But they came from similar backgrounds (Cali guys, Pac-10 rivals, sat behind legends for 3 years) and I expected him to have at least 3 to 4 moments where you are like "Ah-ha - thats why he is the guy"

Peyton is the best QB in the league IMO. Hands down. Leinart wont be in the same class as him, Brees or Brady, but has a ceiling high enough to be a top 5 QB in the NFC. There...I said it.

Can you honestly say there has been one pass where you were like "Damn - not many other QB's make that pass"....if you can find it please show it to me.

Doesnt matter. If he does it against the Rams in week 1, Ill go "AHA!" Thats all that matters

Oh and Max Hall....this doesn't tell the whole story because the reason everyone loves him is his make up and moxie....but its a taste....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soogb0wC7LA

He is a project at this point and anyone who thinks he is going to be a factor this season is freebasing.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Ill wait until the regular season to make that distinction and comparison to his tenure at USC....if he does get the opportunity. I truly believe if he gets screwed here, which I know fully you disagree, he will be more aggressive.


I disagree. Replacing a player who was largely responsible for bringing a perennial loser franchise to relevancy is tougher than replacing a QB who perpetuated the historical success of the Green Bay franchise.



Peyton is the best QB in the league IMO. Hands down. Leinart wont be in the same class as him, Brees or Brady, but has a ceiling high enough to be a top 5 QB in the NFC. There...I said it.


Doesnt matter. If he does it against the Rams in week 1, Ill go "AHA!" Thats all that matters


He is a project at this point and anyone who thinks he is going to be a factor this season is freebasing.

Man I thought I loved Matt. Top 5 QB?????? Someone has a ......

You must be registered for see images attach

Love ya TJ

 

[TJ]

Man I thought I loved Matt. Top 5 QB?????? Someone has a ......

You must be registered for see images attach

Love ya TJ

Read again

I said top 5 IN THE NFC!!! That's not even pro bowl status

Not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Read again

I said top 5 IN THE NFC!!! That's not even pro bowl status

Not out of the realm of possibility.

Dissension in the ranks!!! Dissension in the ranks!!!

Seriously though, as a pretty strong Leinart detractor, I'm really on the fence for this one. Both are imperfect options that could be decent or horrible. You can make strong arguments for and against both, and there is obviously no clear cut winner.

Considering those facts, I'm comfortable with whatever Whis decides. I think he's certainly earned the benefit of the doubt at this point.

 

[Duckjake]

Just think how much fun this board is going to be if Max Hall goes 19/28 for 223 yards and 2 TDs Thursday night. While DA and ML are 2/7 and 1/4.