LB and TPE for Turk and Childress

[Covert Rain]

I think short tough CAN be effective. Boozer had a playoff rebounding rate of 13.2 and his not quite 6'9". Milsap averaged 8.9 rpg in the playoffs.

IMHO, rebounding is a funtion of several things:

1) Length - rebounds are made by the hands, not the head.
2) Strngth - being able to push people areound is very important or keeping from being pushed around.
3) Hops - A short jumper has a big advantage of a taller "feet of stone" player
4) Positioning - It takes even natural rebounders a few years to know where to set up to get the rabound or when to block out.
5) Anticiapation - Great rebounds get to the ball first by anticipating where the ball will go. Rodman was tiny compare to other forwards, but he had great anticipation and averaged 16 rpg one year.
6) Hustle - Lots of balls come off the basket strangely, but whoever gets to the ball first is key.

Getting a guy like Frye to become a better rebounder is going to take getting him to focus on the task and hand. Getting stronger wouldn't hurt.

Good post. Rebounding of having any game in the paint is not purely about height (although it helps). There is so much more then height to determine if a player is soft or tough or if he can bang or play in the post. There are lots of examples of guys shorter in this league who have much more toughness then their taller counterparts.

I look at it like this....in almost every sport we see guys with the tools to play their respective sports and they just never get there. Sometimes it's height, sometimes its athleticism and sometimes it's a size etc. So, they might have some of those tools but it doesn't mean they ever use them. It's a combination of things that certain players have that allow them success.

You can't just say...well he's tall..that equals he's tough or he's short that equals him being soft. That is ridiculous.

 

[Mainstreet]

"Rebounding is all about desire" is another one of those idiot TV analyst cliches.

I think rebounding is also about positioning. However, I think there is a relationship about wanting the rebound, "desire," and gaining the position to get it. To some degree this has to be the players primary focus when the ball goes up. It's the thought process that the ball belongs to me. Good rebounders do not think about the physical contact that goes with it.

 

[Chaplin]

I think rebounding is also about positioning. However, I think there is a relationship about wanting the rebound, "desire," and gaining the position to get it. To some degree this has to be the players primary focus when the ball goes up. It's the thought process that the ball belongs to me. Good rebounders do not think about the physical contact that goes with it.

To me, positioning is the main reason why Stoudemire was never a good rebounder (and why Hill and JRich are). Stoudemire never put himself is a good position to get the rebound, but at the same time, the position he DID put himself in allowed other guys to grab them instead. So it's a double-edged sword.

 

[chickenhead]

I think some players are also more interested in getting the outlet pass and being part of the play on the other end, especially in a high-scoring offense. Suddenly the rebound versus an opponent's basket doesn't always make much of a difference to them. They'd rather get their 20+ points than a double double.

 

[Covert Rain]

To me, positioning is the main reason why Stoudemire was never a good rebounder (and why Hill and JRich are). Stoudemire never put himself is a good position to get the rebound, but at the same time, the position he DID put himself in allowed other guys to grab them instead. So it's a double-edged sword.

I think instincts and focus has alot to do with it as well. I think at times Amare relies on his strength versus positioning himself as you said. I think other times Amare just simply lacked focus. Amare is not the smartest player in the world and I think often if he didn't focus he simply couldn't get it done.

It's funny because I remember my coaches when I played football said that the reason I had so many interceptions each season was because I had a "nose" for the ball. I wasn't the biggest guy or the fastest by any stretch. I couldn't even tell you how I did it. I just seem to be able to anticipate where the ball was going by watching the QB and the receivers routes (and I am sure it helped I was a receiver on the other end of the ball as well). To me it was more mental.

I think there is where Amare faltered so much on the boards....it was the mental aspect because he has the tools.

 

[tobiazz]

Troy Murphy would be a very good alternative.
Finished 7th in rebounding last season behind Howard,Camby,Z.Randolph,D.Lee,Boozer and Bosh.
Murphy also scored 14 ppg,with 2 assists and a steal per.
I'm not sure if we could start him though(maybe)....an excellent backup at C/PF to Lopez in the very least. Foul trouble/injury troubles to Lopez is a reality we must be prepared for unfortunately.

Indiana is currently sporting Brandon Rush and Dahntay Jones at the 2. Jones is the defensive stopper. It would be worth exploring if you're the SUNS i think.

Trading expiring contracts basically(JRich for Murphy)
...or
(JRich/E.Clark for T.Murphy/B.Rush)....the numbers do work for both hypothetical deals.

Indiana does have some decent depth up front so....

Murphy seems like the perfect fit, on paper. I never watch him play though. That sounds like a good trade.

 

[cly2tw]

Murphy seems like the perfect fit, on paper. I never watch him play though. That sounds like a good trade.

With Murphy, we'd be officially the Phoenix Warriors!

 

[myrondizzo]

With Murphy, we'd be officially the Phoenix Warriors!

but we'd have nash instead of davis.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

but we'd have nash instead of davis.

'1

...and Lopez, Hill, Dudley, Dragic, Turkoglu, Childress, etc.

Warriors are a team known for small ball. We'd roll up a starting lineup of 6'3", 6'8", 6'10", 6'11", 7'0". One of the bigger lineups in the NBA. Don't really see the comparison.

 

[BC867]

Warriors are a team known for small ball. We'd roll up a starting lineup of 6'3", 6'8", 6'10", 6'11", 7'0". One of the bigger lineups in the NBA. Don't really see the comparison.

That sounds good . . . if bigger meant across as well as up-and-down. Not just taller, but tougher.

Frye is bigger! But he sure doesn't act it. Especially playing out in the land of the guards.

 

[cly2tw]

That sounds good . . . if bigger meant across as well as up-and-down. Not just taller, but tougher.

Frye is bigger! But he sure doesn't act it. Especially playing out in the land of the guards.

Exactly. It's about the attitude revealed by having Murphy as your starting PF. Lopez has potential but far away from being reliable for anything but 20 min and hard fouls yet. We'd be talking about Frye/Murphy lineup for majority of court time. Yak!

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

That sounds good . . . if bigger meant across as well as up-and-down. Not just taller, but tougher.

Frye is bigger! But he sure doesn't act it. Especially playing out in the land of the guards.

Lopez is certainly tough, and can hold his own on the inside. Murphy is not a terrible defender, and a very good rebounder too. Hill can play D and is certainly not soft, and Turk is capable of guarding 3s effectively. You absolutely have a point on Frye, but we'd still be fielding a big starting lineup. Our bench lineup (Dragic, Childress, Dudley, Warrick, and Frye) has big, physical perimeter guys, but is definitely soft on the inside. Using some of the trade exception to acquire KT would fix that.

 

[Sunburn]

Exactly. It's about the attitude revealed by having Murphy as your starting PF. Lopez has potential but far away from being reliable for anything but 20 min and hard fouls yet. We'd be talking about Frye/Murphy lineup for majority of court time. Yak!

Murphy at PF is much, much better than Turk at PF, and he's an expiring. The idea is growing on me.

 

[Sunburn]

'1

...and Lopez, Hill, Dudley, Dragic, Turkoglu, Childress, etc.

Warriors are a team known for small ball. We'd roll up a starting lineup of 6'3", 6'8", 6'10", 6'11", 7'0". One of the bigger lineups in the NBA. Don't really see the comparison.

Agreed. They're tall, yet guys that can move. I'm liking it more and more with every rising inch of the starting line-up.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Agreed. They're tall, yet guys that can move. I'm liking it more and more with every rising inch of the starting line-up.

WTF? Really? Settle down there, cowboy....

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I don't understand the reluctance for Andrei Kirilenko on here. The guy is not a tweener. He's a power forward that the Jazz are playing out of position. He can rebound decently at the four (although still leaves some to be desired), but more importantly is an excellent help defender and pretty good one on one guy. Would be a great fit in the zone defense, can run, and is an expiring contract. Don't really see the downside.

Nash/Dragic/Reynolds
Hill/Childress
Turk/Dudley/Clark
AK/Warrick/Lawal
Lopez/Frye

That's a solid run n gun lineup that still can play some defense. Fits better than what we have now, Richardson is a redundant piece.

 

[Bufalay]

Would be a great fit in the zone defense, can run, and is an expiring contract.

What is with fans referring to players as expiring contracts? Kirilenko is a person who has an expiring contract.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't understand the reluctance for Andrei Kirilenko on here. The guy is not a tweener. He's a power forward that the Jazz are playing out of position. He can rebound decently at the four (although still leaves some to be desired), but more importantly is an excellent help defender and pretty good one on one guy. Would be a great fit in the zone defense, can run, and is an expiring contract. Don't really see the downside.

Nash/Dragic/Reynolds
Hill/Childress
Turk/Dudley/Clark
AK/Warrick/Lawal
Lopez/Frye

That's a solid run n gun lineup that still can play some defense. Fits better than what we have now, Richardson is a redundant piece.

Richardson is redundant?? Are you kidding me? Even with Turkoglu, JRich is easily our best scorer and certainly one of if not the most athletic player on the team.

This hate for JRich is getting out of control. And what makes you think Richardson would fit in Jerry Sloan's system? A trade may look great for us, but you really have to look at the other team and WHY they would make the trade as well.

 

[Hat]

ESPN is reporting Charlotte backed out of the 3 way trade with Toronto and Phoenix. Something about them not wanting to take on Calderon's contract. This may have thrown the deal a loop, but Toronto desperately wants to get rid of Turkoglu so I can see it still happening.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Richardson is redundant?? Are you kidding me? Even with Turkoglu, JRich is easily our best scorer and certainly one of if not the most athletic player on the team.

This hate for JRich is getting out of control. And what makes you think Richardson would fit in Jerry Sloan's system? A trade may look great for us, but you really have to look at the other team and WHY they would make the trade as well.

With two perimeter guys who love to have the ball in their hands in Turk and Nash, J-Rich is going to become primarily a spot up shooter. It'll be hard to allow him to be creative without disrupting the flow of our offense. I'd much prefer a legitimate defensive power forward who can do the dirty work like AK than a shooter.

EDIT: Utah needs a shooter to put on the outside. Sloan's worked fine with defensively challenged players like Boozer, I don't see why they couldn't incorporate J-Rich. AK plays out of position and they're going to let him walk next year anyways. Might as well get a player that they have a bigger need for in J-Rich

 

[jagu]

WTF? Really? Settle down there, cowboy....

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't understand the reluctance for Andrei on here. The guy is not a tweener. He's a power forward that the Jazz are playing out of position. He can rebound decently at the four (although still leaves some to be desired), but more importantly is an excellent help defender and pretty good one on one guy. Would be a great fit in the zone defense, can run, and is an expiring contract. Don't really see the downside.

Nash/Dragic/Reynolds
Hill/Childress
Turk/Dudley/Clark
AK/Warrick/Lawal
Lopez/Frye

That's a solid run n gun lineup that still can play some defense. Fits better than what we have now, Richardson is a redundant piece.

I thought the Suns needed to get more beef at PF/ FC and Kirilenko was too similar in stature to Warrick and Turoglu. IMO, the Suns need a quality player that can play FC. However, I don't think Richardson is a redundant piece. The Suns have lots SFs but I do not see a SG on your roster that can consistently hit the 3 point shot. Hill and Childress are not dependable to spread the court and I don't think the Suns want Turkoglu playing away from the basket. The Suns offense will suffer. Now if the Suns could have gotten Jefferson for Richardson, then the risk would have been worth it because Jefferson can play FC and pull in opposing defenses.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I thought the Suns needed to get more beef at PF/ FC and Kirilenko was too similar in stature to Warrick and Turoglu. IMO, the Suns need a quality player that can play FC. However, I don't think Richardson is a redundant piece. The Suns have lots SFs but I do not see a SG on your roster that can consistently hit the 3 point shot. Hill and Chidress are not dependable to spread the court and I don't think the Suns want Turkoglu playing away from the basket. The Suns offense will suffer. Now if the Suns could have gotten Jefferson for Richardson, then the risk would have been worth it because Jefferson can play FC and pull in opposing defenses.

When your two other starting perimeter players are 40% 3 point shooting guys, you don't really need your two to spread the floor. The offense should work with Turk and Nash taking turns driving and handling the ball, while one is creating and facilitating the offense, the other will be in a position to shoot and spread the floor. Run the PnR with Lopzes or AK, and have the other guy clean up, while Hill or Childress is available for the mid-range game. Seems well balanced.

On the other hand, if we keep J-Rich, we have to rely too much on outside shooting. We don't have any garbage players that are going to get our hustle points (with the possible exception of Lopez).

 

[jagu]

I don't understand the reluctance for Andrei Kirilenko on here. The guy is not a tweener. He's a power forward that the Jazz are playing out of position. He can rebound decently at the four (although still leaves some to be desired), but more importantly is an excellent help defender and pretty good one on one guy. Would be a great fit in the zone defense, can run, and is an expiring contract. Don't really see the downside.

Nash/Dragic/Reynolds
Hill/Childress
Turk/Dudley/Clark
AK/Warrick/Lawal
Lopez/Frye

That's a solid run n gun lineup that still can play some defense. Fits better than what we have now, Richardson is a redundant piece.

Which guy in that lineup would you call a reliable scorer other than Nash? I rather have a dangerous player like J-Rich in the starting lineup than have Hill as the starting SG just to accomodate AK. People are worried about defense at the 4. We didn't have any D at the 4 before, so what are we worrying about? Turk at the 4 gives us a plus plus passing forward and on a team that loves 3 point shooting. Having a PF who can pass will surely help and J-Rich needs to become more of our primary option.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Richardson is redundant?? Are you kidding me? Even with Turkoglu, JRich is easily our best scorer and certainly one of if not the most athletic player on the team.

This hate for JRich is getting out of control. And what makes you think Richardson would fit in Jerry Sloan's system? A trade may look great for us, but you really have to look at the other team and WHY they would make the trade as well.

Amen, preach it! JRich is the second best player on this team. The obsession with his contract is getting a bit silly.