League won't Change "Hack A Shaq" rule

Covert Rain

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Your right you don't change the rule because a player can't hit a free throw. You change the rule so that off the ball fouls are consistently treated the same through out the course of the game. You change the rule so that players don't make non-basketball related plays (a la fouls away from the ball), turning the game into Free Throw contest versus letting your actual play on the court decide the outcome.

So tell me what is more detrimental to the game flopping which results in call and doesn't really stop the flow of the game or hacking a player off ball so basically the play on the basketball no longer decides the outcome. The NBA as usual has their priorities all jacked up.
 
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dreamcastrocks

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Your right you don't change the rule because a player can't hit a free throw. You change the rule so that off the ball fouls are consistently treated the same through out the course of the game. You change the rule so that players don't make non-basketball related plays (a la fouls away from the ball), turning the game into Free Throw contest versus letting your actual play on the court decide the outcome.

Exactly. It would be like Stern announcing that he is going to allow the refs to swallow the whistle, or possibly worse, call every ticky tack foul within the last two minutes, that they would have let go throughout the course of the game.
 

dreamcastrocks

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many games on NBA pass - there is a league outside the suns playoff series vs SA and if you watched it you would see that this tactic just isn't used and has next to zero impact on the NBA as a whole

I think you will see many more teams using it next year.
 

MigratingOsprey

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not a chance - if that were the case it would of been used for the past 5 years or so

it really doesn't impact the outcome from a points perspective - all it really does is serve as a mind F, which the spurs love to do to the suns

in a regular season game the impact of each game is also a lot less so there is no need to try to scare shaq off the floor - you also have a new coach who may decide to let him shoot the FTs, keep him on the court and send the message to the team that they'll score just as much so just keep playing the game
 

dreamcastrocks

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I think your wrong. Why would it be increased?

Because I think that the league saw how well it worked for the Spurs.

It may not happen with every team, but I believe that we will see more teams hack shaq, wallace, whomever.
 
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da_suns_fan

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What a stupid decision.

All they had to do was allow the team that was fouled to shoot free throws or take the ball out of bounds.
 

MigratingOsprey

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historically it hasn't worked though - if it did more teams would of done it against the lakers and I don't know if anyone did it when he was on the heat - if a player finds a mini-groove and hits 4-6 you've given up more points per possession and had your team eat 3 fouls

this pushes you closer to the bonus where a normal non-shooting foul against a good shooter could end up hurting you as they now get to go to the line
 
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da_suns_fan

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Of course, WE have to figure out how to use Shaq now in the playoffs, while Mike D gets to forget about this blunder while earning 6 million a year.
 

MigratingOsprey

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whoever the new coach is needs to instill some mental toughness - if it starts, don't take him out - let him shoot his FTs - explain to the team that it's no big deal and really isn't going to hurt them much

also spend time working on rebounding - when shaq misses they come off the rim kind of funky - a good rebounder who has spent time snagging them off the key in practice could have an advantage to get them in the game

so say you foul, shaq makes the first, misses the 2nd and the suns get the offensive board - that's a big advantage to the suns
 

Steel Sun

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Why don't they just give the team the option to retain possession or shoot the free throws.I GUARANTEE that would stop the fouling.
 

Chris_Sanders

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You don't change the rule because one person likes to back down his opponent for 18 seconds of the 24 second shot clock. Oh wait, yeah they did. (Barkley)

You don't change the rule because one person likes to stay camped in the lane (Wilt) or institute offensive goaltending (Wilt) or leaping for the foul line to shoot a free throw (Wilt)... but wait, they did.

The league changes rules because of one player all the time. The logic is flawed.

I agree with you but Goaltending was created because of George Mikan. :)
 

Russ Smith

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IMHO the best way to defuse that is make the damn freethrows.

Shaq doesn't take it seriously year after year we hear him claim he makes 80% in practice and it's just a game time thing but I defy anyone to shoot close to 80% with his bad mechanics?

Rick Barry said it a few years ago he's offered repeatedly to teach Shaq to shoot underhand and shaq's response is it looks silly and he'd never do it. has he ever watched footage of his current shooting form it's not that looks cool?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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that's a great bit of hyperbole Ouchie

The average NBA team gets 92.01 possessions per game

The average NBA team scores 98.49 points per game

That works out to 1.07 points per possession

Given this rate and 2 FTs per possession that would equate to 184.02 FTs attempted per game

Let's take a bad FT shooter - Shaq for example - who for his career shoots 52.4% from the FT line

If he stays with his career average over those 184.02 FT Attempts he will score 96.42 ppg. This is about 2 ppg less than the average ppg of "playing normal"

There would be some players out of a job with that strategy - of players averaging more than 6 ppg during this past regular season the worst FT shooter was Josh Boone @ 45.6% - the next is Shaq @ 50.3% - then you have Antoine Walker @ 53%

The next guy with an offensive impact would be Emeka Okafor at 57% - but even at that low of a percentage, if you give him 184.02 FTs he will on average score 104.89 points - which would be an increase in scoring

Emeka ranked 380 out of 436 guys who attempted a FT last year - Ben Wallace would be out of a job, but most guys we know and love would be unaffected

most teams would be able to shape a roster and actually score more

also keep in mind the logistics of how many possessions you could actually do this - if you foul out your entire bench that is 42 possessions (7*6). That leaves your starting 5 with 5 fouls each for another 25 possessions.

So after you go through you 67 possessions, then what? You are still a solid 25 possessions less than what the average game is now and the remainder would have to be played perfect

i'm glad the NBA stood firm on this one

that's a fantastic bit of analysis! i'm not being sarcastic, i found that a fun read.

that said, if you make any player, particularly a bad FT shooting player, take that many FTs in a game their arm will tire and their percentage will likely decrease considerably. particularly if they're forced to do this night in and night out. i think taking it to this extreme would make more than a few players obsolete. of course it'll never get to this point. but i wouldn't mind seeing a coach with nothing to lose go to this extent to show just how dumb a rule can be if not properly drafted to avoid extremes.

good legislation doesn't have loopholes. bad legislation results in things like tax shelters that skirt the essence of the law. if you want to keep a rule like this, look at all the possible outcomes and design it to prevent the absurd. otherwise you risk the absurd.
 

Russ Smith

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historically it hasn't worked though - if it did more teams would of done it against the lakers and I don't know if anyone did it when he was on the heat - if a player finds a mini-groove and hits 4-6 you've given up more points per possession and had your team eat 3 fouls

this pushes you closer to the bonus where a normal non-shooting foul against a good shooter could end up hurting you as they now get to go to the line

Precisely that's what makes a player like Shaq or Wade so valuable in the first place they create so many fouls that they put your team in the bonus a lot earlier resulting in a lot more FT's if you exploit it correctly.
 

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You don't change the rule because one person likes to back down his opponent for 18 seconds of the 24 second shot clock. Oh wait, yeah they did. (Barkley)

You don't change the rule because one person likes to stay camped in the lane (Wilt) or institute offensive goaltending (Wilt) or leaping for the foul line to shoot a free throw (Wilt)... but wait, they did.

The league changes rules because of one player all the time. The logic is flawed.

There is a difference though. The rule changes you brought up were created to take an advantage away and semi level the playing field. A hack a shaq rule is compensating for a deficiency. Don't get me wrong, I hate the whole premise of the hack and think its a cheap way to win. I just dont think you put the onus on the league. I say you put it on shaq to get his butt in the gym and nullify the hack by making the throws!
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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There is a difference though. The rule changes you brought up were created to take an advantage away and semi level the playing field. A hack a shaq rule is compensating for a deficiency. Don't get me wrong, I hate the whole premise of the hack and think its a cheap way to win. I just dont think you put the onus on the league. I say you put it on shaq to get his butt in the gym and nullify the hack by making the throws!

what's the difference? it's "leveling the playing field" one way or another - one just levels up and the other levels down. still rules made to account for a single player and their individual ability.
 

RugbyMuffin

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I have to go with the NBA on this one. Chance you take for having a guy who can't shoot FT's.

I can't believe Shaq has played for this long and still can't make a foul shot.

Kinda embarrassing at this point don't you think ?
 

dreamcastrocks

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I agree with you but Goaltending was created because of George Mikan. :)

In the books I have read, offensive goaltending rule they attributed mostly to Wilt. Could be Mikan too... :)
 

dreamcastrocks

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:buzzer:

We all know you don't read books.

I read a lot about the NBA in high school. Couldn't get enough, used to be one of those sports trivia geeks. Did most of my reports on the NBA too.

:mulli:
 

Mulli

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I read a lot about the NBA in high school. Couldn't get enough, used to be one of those sports trivia geeks. Did most of my reports on the NBA too.

:mulli:
I was just getting you back for challenging me by making me prove I read a book by asking me to send it to you.
 
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