Leinart announced the starter

[red desert]

And be back by midnight.

Do I gotta? I have this hot date tonight. She's a real looker.

 

[D-Dogg]

Do I gotta? I have this hot date tonight. She's a real looker.

Use protection.

 

[AZCB34]

I believe there was a special package for Warner and I do not believe Whisenhunt is trying to save Matt in any way on this one however the fact there was a special package done for Warner could be seen as an indictment of Matt. I mean, are we to believe that Matt could not run a no huddle offense and the same theory of BAL being unable to do much blitzing would not have still applied?

That, to me, is the hole in the argument at this point Whisennhunt at minimum, does not believe Matt can do the things he needs done to execute his offensive gameplan/system/style

 

[D-Dogg]

I believe there was a special package for Warner and I do not believe Whisenhunt is trying to save Matt in any way on this one however the fact there was a special package done for Warner could be seen as an indictment of Matt. I mean, are we to believe that Matt could not run a no huddle offense and the same theory of BAL being unable to do much blitzing would not have still applied?

That, to me, is the hole in the argument at this point Whisennhunt at minimum, does not believe Matt can do the things he needs done to execute his offensive gameplan/system/style

Whis said they didn't even install the hurry up no huddle in Pittsburgh because Ben couldn't run it.

 

[Wild Card]

I want to know which player told Bickley before the game yesterday that Warner was the best chance to win.

AJCF:

Bickley didn't say, and I suspect that whoever made the comment did so with the understanding that it wouldn't come back to bite him. But it speaks volumes that Leinart doesn't have a "C" patch on his jersey, and that one of the guys who does had a career day yesterday with Warner pulling the trigger.

I don't think it's escaped the players' notice that the "backup QB" is running their no-huddle offense, apparently because the starter can't handle it. And that's gotta make some of them wonder, if Kurt's the coaches' choice for scoring points in crunch time, why he's not in there all the time.

WC

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Whis successfully installed a QB by committee aspect to the game. Inventive.

and usually suicidal for a coach. qb by committee does not work. it simply doesn't work. it may for a game, as a fluke, but it cannot work on a regular basis. it doesn't even work in college at the highest levels for the most part.

 

[Pariah]

Leinart IS capable of reading defenses and making the right throw--on time.

Why he isn't is a mystery. But we saw what he's capable of in a few games last year, so I think we need to be patient with him; let him work through whatever it is that's holding him back.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

for the record, gotta start leinart. he's young. there will be growing pains. i'm willing to suffer to be better for the longer term. it also worries me about his confidence if he gets benched for a season!

 

[D-Dogg]

Leinart IS capable of reading defenses and making the right throw--on time.

Why he isn't is a mystery. But we saw what he's capable of in a few games last year, so I think we need to be patient with him; let him work through whatever it is that's holding him back.

I agree. It isn't like he has never shown that he can do it. He has.

That's why all this chatter about him being dumb and such is meaningless. It's clearly a problem based on picking up the new offense and having his mechanics futzed with by the new staff. And it's clear because he didn't have the defense reading, pocket confidence and hesitant throwing issues before those two things happened.

He's got to take some steps backwards before he jumps forwards....we are looking at him stepping backwards right now.

 

[D-Dogg]

and usually suicidal for a coach. qb by committee does not work. it simply doesn't work. it may for a game, as a fluke, but it cannot work on a regular basis. it doesn't even work in college at the highest levels for the most part.

I want to point out that I didn't say it was awesome...I said it was inventive. And I was shocked that he successfully implemented it. What you said above is true, which makes the success all the more shocking to me. Whis is a ballsy coach.

 

[Wild Card]

for the record, gotta start leinart. he's young. there will be growing pains. i'm willing to suffer to be better for the longer term. it also worries me about his confidence if he gets benched for a season!

Ouchie:

And what do you think a few more games like Sunday's will do for Leinart's confidence? I can't imagine that having Warner ride to the rescue after Matt struggled through the first half felt good. In fact, from watching his reaction on the sidelines, we know it didn't.

I think it's a recipe for disaster if--in addition to absorbing a new offense and making changes in his mechanics--Leinart's expecting the hook anytime he makes one too many mistakes or the Cards get down by two or more scores. If he's not yet capable of playing through setbacks, and getting his own team back in the game, he needs to sit. Until he's ready.

WC

 

[D-Dogg]

In fact, from watching his reaction on the sidelines, we know it didn't.

This has been said a few times and doesn't make sense. One shot of Warner talking to Matt has Matt grinning his head off at what is being said. People at the game posted that they put their binocs on him and he was there part of all the Kurt/Whis conversations and up on his feet into the game as Kurt drove them down. The cameras at the game, however, didn't show those shots.

Don't be fooled because we saw some specific camera shots that he was "pouting."

"Leinart is touching his hair...quick, take camera 4. Oh, now he's frowning at something...take camera 6."



I take the word of Cards fans who decided to check him out on the sidelines. I'm sure he wasn't happy with his play, but pouting doesn't sound like what he was doing. Not even from the shots on the TV.

Not that you are saying this, but there are some here that are so skilled at reading people that they can discern pouting from other emotions by a few camera shots that show you what the producer of the show wants you to see for the "drama." Even when some of those shots don't fit the pouting argument (like him laughing it up with KW) or that people there say they saw nothing like it.

It seems like we the fans do more to fire the flames of a QB controversy than the crappy play of the young gun and the hot play of the greybeard could even do.

 

[azsouthendzone]

for the record, gotta start INSERT ROOKIE HERE. he's young. there will be growing pains. i'm willing to suffer to be better for the longer term. it also worries me about his confidence if he gets benched for a season!

Been saying that every year since 1988.

 

[jefftheshark]

there are some here that are so skilled at reading people that they can discern pouting from other emotions by a few camera shots

I have gotten quite good at discerning the lustful looks the Cardinal Cheerleaders give me during the games.

So I guess I could evaluate "poutyness" fairly well, also.

JTS

 

[Wild Card]

This has been said a few times and doesn't make sense. One shot of Warner talking to Matt has Matt grinning his head off at what is being said. People at the game posted that they put their binocs on him and he was there part of all the Kurt/Whis conversations and up on his feet into the game as Kurt drove them down. The cameras at the game, however, didn't show those shots.

Don't be fooled because we saw some specific camera shots that he was "pouting."

Donald:

That's fair. If you only have a few shots to go by, it's easy to draw false conclusions. Maybe Leinart is fine with having Warner come in and light 'em up with the no-huddle if/when Matt and the base offense are struggling.

It's not like swapping QBs has never worked in the NFL. During his storied career coaching the Cowboys, Tom Landry used the "Quarterback Shuttle" first with Don Meredith & Eddie LeBaron, and later with Craig Morton & Roger Staubach. And the great Don Shula once got the Dolphins to a Super Bowl with "Woodstrock" (young scambler David Woodley and veteran pocket-passer Don Strock) alternating under center.

But even when it works, it's temporary. Meredith and Staubach eventually won those starting jobs in Dallas, and the Fins drafted a kid named Marino.

Every team needs someone to be The Man. And as long as Matt Leinart needs to sit in crunch time to let someone else try to win the game, he won't be.

WC

 

[Skkorpion]

for the record, gotta start leinart. he's young. there will be growing pains. i'm willing to suffer to be better for the longer term. it also worries me about his confidence if he gets benched for a season!

If getting benched for a while destroys his confidence, Matt has no place in the NFL.

A lot of young QBs have been benched, traded, ignored and left benched, and still persevered. A few that come to mind are Rich Ganon, John Kitna, Kurt Warner, Jake Delhomme, Brett Favre, Trent Dilfer, Matt Hasselbeck, Brad Johnson, Philip Rivers, Drew Brees. There are many more.

What you should be worried about is whether he can play at this level.

I agree, start him, but have a quick hook. Whisenhunt can't risk losing the team by taking losses we don't need to take.

I'll give you another one: Derek Anderson looks so good in Cleveland, I don't think Brady Quinn will ever be the starter there. He'll have to suck it up for 4 years, then get traded to some place that needs him.

 

[conraddobler]

I hope Matt is the future, and I think he is but there is no shame in sitting down if a better QB is on the roster.

Steve Young sat for years behind Montana, and he hated every second of it like he should.

Let's look at times Warner has been good.

Solid O line, great WR's.

Let's look at the bad times.

A lack of either one.

Let's fast forward to now, seems to me he's got a ...

Solid O line and great WR's.... hmmmm could this be why he looked like the greatest QB to ever put on a Cardinal uniform for less than 2 quarters?

Yeah I think that could be it.

 

[Zeno]

If getting benched for a while destroys his confidence, Matt has no place in the NFL.

A lot of young QBs have been benched, traded, ignored and left benched, and still persevered. A few that come to mind are Rich Ganon, John Kitna, Kurt Warner, Jake Delhomme, Brett Favre, Trent Dilfer, Matt Hasselbeck, Brad Johnson, Philip Rivers, Drew Brees. There are many more.

None of those QBs excelled for the team that originally signed/drafted him...and Rivers was never benched, he just was behind a gifted young QB, he never had a chance to compete until Brees was gone.

Aikman, Manning, McNabb, Roethlisberger were never yanked from the lineup for a series or 2 while they were developing.

 

[Redsz]

Aikman, Manning, McNabb, Roethlisberger were never yanked from the lineup for a series or 2 while they were developing.

Agreed. I am pretty stunned at how quickly some have flip flopped on Matt.

What we are seeing is growing pains. We need to ride them out.

 

[Cheesebeef]

None of those QBs excelled for the team that originally signed/drafted him...and Rivers was never benched, he just was behind a gifted young QB, he never had a chance to compete until Brees was gone.

Aikman, Manning, McNabb, Roethlisberger were never yanked from the lineup for a series or 2 while they were developing.

don't confuse people with facts. 2nd year QBs undergo growing pains. We're finally seeing it. You've got to give him time, period. Wiz ain't gonna lose this team for good by doing what's best for them long-term and if he, those guys don't get what it takes to win anyway and are likely gone before long. He gets at least the first half of the season IMO.

 

[Skkorpion]

None of those QBs excelled for the team that originally signed/drafted him...and Rivers was never benched, he just was behind a gifted young QB, he never had a chance to compete until Brees was gone.

Aikman, Manning, McNabb, Roethlisberger were never yanked from the lineup for a series or 2 while they were developing.

If Aikman, Manning, McNabb, and Roethlisberger had been benched for a while, do you think it would have ruined their o-so-fragile psyches? I don't.

And as far as your first point, you're just clouding the issue with red herrings, without disproving my point, which was: A bunch of good QBs fought through tremendous adversity to become good.

Are you saying our guy can't do it too?

 

[Zeno]

If Aikman, Manning, McNabb, and Roethlisberger had been benched for a while, do you think it would have ruined their o-so-fragile psyches? I don't.

And as far as your first point, you're just clouding the issue with red herrings, without disproving my point, which was: A bunch of good QBs fought through tremendous adversity to become good.

Are you saying our guy can't do it too?

No I'm saying with the history that you showed us he'll probably be doing it for another team. Maybe had their original teams stuck with them they would have had an impact earlier and not in another city??

Aikman & McNabb in particular weren't spectacular QBs early on in their careers yet they still didn't have QB yo-yo played with them. Their teams stuck with them because they knew where they future lay and that as young QBs there were going to be struggles.

 

[Skkorpion]

don't confuse people with facts. 2nd year QBs undergo growing pains. We're finally seeing it. You've got to give him time, period. Wiz ain't gonna lose this team for good by doing what's best for them long-term and if he, those guys don't get what it takes to win anyway and are likely gone before long. He gets at least the first half of the season IMO.

I agree, he does deserve time and his contract guarantees it. Half the season? Depends on whether we are winning or losing. If we are losing, then it depends on how much of it is on Leinart.

 

[Gambit]

If getting benched for a while destroys his confidence, Matt has no place in the NFL.

A lot of young QBs have been benched, traded, ignored and left benched, and still persevered. A few that come to mind are Rich Ganon, John Kitna, Kurt Warner, Jake Delhomme, Brett Favre, Trent Dilfer, Matt Hasselbeck, Brad Johnson, Philip Rivers, Drew Brees. There are many more.

What you should be worried about is whether he can play at this level.

I agree, start him, but have a quick hook. Whisenhunt can't risk losing the team by taking losses we don't need to take.

I'll give you another one: Derek Anderson looks so good in Cleveland, I don't think Brady Quinn will ever be the starter there. He'll have to suck it up for 4 years, then get traded to some place that needs him.

Derek Anderson will eventually fade, until he plays the Bengals again.

 

[ajcardfan]

It's really kind of funny that Leinart's unquestioned strongest asset - that is, mentally mastering a pro offense is now all of the sudden, in literally two weeks, is now doubtful to the fans.

We've either been fed a line of crap for oh, three years about this kid --- or something unusual has happened in Cards camp.