Like it ,or not, Cards need to franchise Davis

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't think the Cards will redo Big's contract during the season.So they should/ have to franchise him.Let's say his franchise tag number is about 10 million. The Cards have plenty of room under the cap next year. They just can't let him walk when he has trade value. If they franchise him it's very unlikely that he'll accept the tag and threaten to hold out or demand a trade. Meanwhile, the tag allows Big to negotiate with other teams and then the Cards can work out a trade and get some draft picks for him. If he does accept the tag number,let it be known that he may be playing guard the following year and he'll worry about hurting his value and have his agent try to expedite a deal. I see it as a no-lose situation for the Cards unless they just let him walk. Good teams don't let hot commodities walk without compensation and he will be a hot commodity because it's such a weak free agent class next year. In the meantime the Cards should hurry and re-sign Hayes and Dansby. I believe they can both be restricted free agents and, hopefully, the Cards learned their lesson last year when they let the Bills negotiate Reggie Wells contract for them. Get both of them done now and then if you want to re-sign Big you'll have a better idea of where you stand capwise. I will say Big does have less value to the Cards now that he's not protecting the back side of the QB. Maybe he gets moved back to RT next year if the Cards keep him. I would like to see him back but i think he is gone so let's get something for him.

 

[Shane]

We definitely need to extend those two guys you mentioned in this order:

#1 HAYES

#2 Dansby

 

[Cheesebeef]

We definitely need to extend those two guys you mentioned in this order:

#1 HAYES

#2 Dansby

absolutely. Hayes has REALLY been a force on D. A great tackler AND he's making plays in pass defense. Really, really impressed with him so far this season.

 

[Goodyear Card]

Cbus cardsfan,

You must be on drugs. If not you need to start taking something. Why would you pay a player $10 million dollars a year who can't do his job. We need to cut our losses. For $10 million you should be able to get 3 linemen who can remember the snap count. Our problem in the past is sticking with poor performers hoping they would improve. He is an average tackle at best. He may be better at guard but he is still not worth $10 million dollars a year.

 

[DeAnna]

Cbus cardsfan,

You must be on drugs. If not you need to start taking something. Why would you pay a player $10 million dollars a year who can't do his job. We need to cut our losses. For $10 million you should be able to get 3 linemen who can remember the snap count. Our problem in the past is sticking with poor performers hoping they would improve. He is an average tackle at best. He may be better at guard but he is still not worth $10 million dollars a year.

Exactly. They're already trying to trade him, but no takers so far.

 

[Zeno]

Exactly. They're already trying to trade him, but no takers so far.

Trade deadline has passed. He won't be traded unless we franchise him and we find a sucker out there that buys his hype.

 

[vinnymac]

unless big makes it to the pro bowl this season, i don't think he will be resigned. i am sure the caridnals will try to resign him, but with less money. i like dansby and hayes and they both should be resign. baring dansby and hayes having more injury problems. this is the first season hayes has started. so wait and see how he does and who going to be in the free agent market. i am sure the caridnals are going to go hard at offensive linemen this off season. especially at the tackle and center position.

 

[joeshmo]

So they should/ have to franchise him.Let's say his franchise tag number is about 10 million. The Cards have plenty of room under the cap next year.

Good teams don't let hot commodities walk without compensation and he will be a hot commodity because it's such a weak free agent class next year.

In the meantime the Cards should hurry and re-sign Hayes and Dansby. I believe they can both be restricted free agents and, hopefully, the Cards learned their lesson last year when they let the Bills negotiate Reggie Wells contract for them.

First, Bigs Franchise tag number will be slightly over 11 Mill. His Base Salary + 20% which is higher then the top 5 average. And they will have plenty of Cap space to do it and still have a much better FA signing class in 2007 then they did in 2006. And with no one to spend it on in this years FA market of 2007 that is probably their only choice in spending to the legal limit of the cap.

You bring up a good point about him being a hot commodity in such a weak market. Franchise tag the guy and see what you can get. And I gaurantee we would get something. Running averages are way down so far this year, and teams will put a premium on OL, especially in a weak market. It isnt like the 11 Mill Franchise tag will hand cuff the team in not making other deals like it normally would when you franchise tag someone.

Finally Dansby and Hayes will not be restricted. They will be Unrestricted FA's and free to negotiate with any other teams come FA time. But that still gives us about 3 months of exclusive negotiating time with them for a 3 month time span between the end of the season and the start of FA. So even if they arent signed during the season, hope is not lost for another 3 months after the season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Finally Dansby and Hayes will not be restricted. They will be Unrestricted FA's and free to negotiate with any other teams come FA time. But that still gives us about 3 months of exclusive negotiating time with them for a 3 month time span between the end of the season and the start of FA. So even if they arent signed during the season, hope is not lost for another 3 months after the season.

I know Hayes won't be restricted, but I thought Dansby would be. Isn't this only his third year? I thought players don' thit UFA until afteer their foourth year?

gotta get Hayes signed.

 

[joeshmo]

Exactly. They're already trying to trade him, but no takers so far.

There are no takers so far becuase only 2 teams have enough cap space left over to handle Bigs 9.15 Mill cap hit. Any other team we would have to take on another players cap hit who also would have their signing bonuses hit all this season. So their Base Salary would have to be way higher then their bonus exceleration. So with limited amounts of teams and then limiting it further by what players we could get in return, it makes for very limited options.

Even the Raiders wouldnt work with Porter involved, cap wise.

 

[Burg72]

I think there will be some team out there to overpay for him (i.e. Snyder/Redskins) if we put the tag on him. I agree that we need to take the gamble and tag him so we don't lose him without any compensation.

 

[Zeno]

I know Hayes won't be restricted, but I thought Dansby would be. Isn't this only his third year? I thought players don' thit UFA until afteer their foourth year?

gotta get Hayes signed.

You are right, Dansby will be restricted because he will only have 3 seasons in the NFL not qualifying him as an unrestricted free agent, Hayes has 4 years so he is free to sign anywhere he chooses..if he makes it to free agency.

 

[joeshmo]

I know Hayes won't be restricted, but I thought Dansby would be. Isn't this only his third year? I thought players don' thit UFA until afteer their foourth year?

gotta get Hayes signed.

It is only Dansby 3rd year, but his contract doesnt expire until the end of the 2007. So I made an error in saying he would be an UFA, when in fact he wont be an UFA until the 2008 offseason when his contract ends.

So he doesnt even need to be re-signed yet, and shouldnt be a priority until he proves he can withstand the rest of the season with his supposed near career ending toe injury.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It is only Dansby 3rd year, but his contract doesnt expire until the end of the 2007. So I made an error in saying he would be an UFA, when in fact he wont be an UFA until the 2008 offseason when his contract ends.

So he doesnt even need to be re-signed yet, and shouldnt be a priority until he proves he can withstand the rest of the season with his supposed near career ending toe injury.

gotcha and totally agree.

 

[vinnymac]

there will be no takers for big. they will see that the cardinals offensive line underachiveing and big is leading the way. we might be able to get a second round pick for him, but i don't think it would be worth the gamble with big when the cardinals might need to use the franchise tag somewhere down the line on other players.

 

[joeshmo]

Just to clarify here is our list of UFA's (not exactly a whos whos list of guys to be climbing over ourselves to get re-signed) -

Tate, Robert CB
Macklin, David CB
Liwienski, Chris G
Darling, James MLB
Huff, Orlando OLB
Griffith, Robert FS
Shipp, Marcel RB
Milligan, Hanik S
Davis, Leonard T
Wakefield, Fred TE
Walters, Troy WR
Keys, Isaac LB
Hayes, Gerald LB
Brewer, Jack S

 

[joeshmo]

there will be no takers for big. they will see that the cardinals offensive line underachiveing and big is leading the way. we might be able to get a second round pick for him, but i don't think it would be worth the gamble with big when the cardinals might need to use the franchise tag somewhere down the line on other players.

What is the risk?

Either he signs the tender and we get the franchise tag back the following year, he signs a long term deal during the franchise tag signing period and we get the tag back the next year, or we trade him away and we get the tag back the following year.

We only wouldnt be able to use the tag the next year if we sign him to a long term deal during the non-negotiating period for Franchised players.

And the 11 Mill cap hit sould hand cuff us either and would still have 30 Mill to work with, and still be in the top 5 teams in cap space.

 

[Zeno]

Just to clarify here is our list of UFA's (not exactly a whos whos list of guys to be climbing over ourselves to get re-signed) -

Tate, Robert CB
Macklin, David CB
Liwienski, Chris G
Darling, James MLB
Huff, Orlando OLB
Griffith, Robert FS
Shipp, Marcel RB
Milligan, Hanik S
Davis, Leonard T
Wakefield, Fred TE
Walters, Troy WR
Keys, Isaac LB
Hayes, Gerald LB
Brewer, Jack S

The only one on that list that we couldn't find a comparable or better player to replace would be Hayes IMO. Darling provides good depth and Walters & Milligan are good on special teams but I wouldn't consider them a priority.

 

[az1965]

Cbus cardsfan,

You must be on drugs. If not you need to start taking something. Why would you pay a player $10 million dollars a year who can't do his job. We need to cut our losses. For $10 million you should be able to get 3 linemen who can remember the snap count. Our problem in the past is sticking with poor performers hoping they would improve. He is an average tackle at best. He may be better at guard but he is still not worth $10 million dollars a year.

I agree. It will be stupid to franchise this guy.

 

[D-Dogg]

Hayes, Hannigan and Walters are the guys on that list I want something done with (here next year). Macklin would be nice and darling too. The rest...whatever. Replaceable.


I'm completely, totally and 100% on the fence with Big. One day I'll want him gone, the next I realize he's the same guy we'd overpay for in FA so why not sign him and that same guy like him and overpay them both. I just don't know.

 

[BACH]

I don't think the Cards will redo Big's contract during the season.So they should/ have to franchise him.Let's say his franchise tag number is about 10 million. The Cards have plenty of room under the cap next year. They just can't let him walk when he has trade value. If they franchise him it's very unlikely that he'll accept the tag and threaten to hold out or demand a trade. Meanwhile, the tag allows Big to negotiate with other teams and then the Cards can work out a trade and get some draft picks for him. If he does accept the tag number,let it be known that he may be playing guard the following year and he'll worry about hurting his value and have his agent try to expedite a deal. I see it as a no-lose situation for the Cards unless they just let him walk. Good teams don't let hot commodities walk without compensation and he will be a hot commodity because it's such a weak free agent class next year. In the meantime the Cards should hurry and re-sign Hayes and Dansby. I believe they can both be restricted free agents and, hopefully, the Cards learned their lesson last year when they let the Bills negotiate Reggie Wells contract for them. Get both of them done now and then if you want to re-sign Big you'll have a better idea of where you stand capwise. I will say Big does have less value to the Cards now that he's not protecting the back side of the QB.

I agree. We shouldn't let Big go, if we don't have a replacement for him. He is overpaid, but he's still the best we got. We got the cap space, so no need to let him go.

Maybe he gets moved back to RT next year if the Cards keep him. I would like to see him back but i think he is gone so let's get something for him.

This is where you lost me. Big's biggest problem is the speed rushers from the blindside. He now plays on the frontside, where he doesn't get exposed to the same degree, so why would you shift him back to the blindside spot?

 

[D-Dogg]

This is where you lost me. Big's biggest problem is the speed rushers from the blindside. He now plays on the frontside, where he doesn't get exposed to the same degree, so why would you shift him back to the blindside spot?

Today's NFL doesn't really adjust to the hand of the QB. Speed rushers don't really flop from side to side and he's presumably safer at RT then. However, the trend is now having speed rushers from both sides...athletes who can rush fast or contain the run. More athletic on both ends.

Big should really be a guard...if Kruczek gets the offense rolling, perhaps we see a change at the bye getting Big to guard if K makes enough noise about it?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I agree. We shouldn't let Big go, if we don't have a replacement for him. He is overpaid, but he's still the best we got. We got the cap space, so no need to let him go.


This is where you lost me. Big's biggest problem is the speed rushers from the blindside. He now plays on the frontside, where he doesn't get exposed to the same degree, so why would you shift him back to the blindside spot?

To try and justify the money he'd be getting.Plus most team speed rushers are coming from the left side so he wouldn't have to deal with them on game in game out basis. I won't be mad either way with what they do with him. I think he should be kept as he's our best OL and there are really no alternatives but he's also not worth 11 milliion a year.To me, his future rests alot with who running the show. If Graves is still here i bet Big stays and gets paid becuase he was a second overall pick for Graves. If Denny is running the show i can see DG cutting ties with him because he hasn't dominated like DG said he should. I can't see him taking a pay cut to stay in Arizona. No matter what, the Cards have kind of pigeon holed themselves into taking an OL in the first round next year.

 

[BACH]

To try and justify the money he'd be getting.Plus most team speed rushers are coming from the left side so he wouldn't have to deal with them on game in game out basis. I won't be mad either way with what they do with him. I think he should be kept as he's our best OL and there are really no alternatives but he's also not worth 11 milliion a year.To me, his future rests alot with who running the show. If Graves is still here i bet Big stays and gets paid becuase he was a second overall pick for Graves. If Denny is running the show i can see DG cutting ties with him because he hasn't dominated like DG said he should. I can't see him taking a pay cut to stay in Arizona. No matter what, the Cards have kind of pigeon holed themselves into taking an OL in the first round next year.

Rushers come from both sides in the league today. Having Big at RT means having a TE lining up next to him, which slows him for that ½ second that Big is too slow.

If Big stays at OT, then it has to be on the front-side IMO.

 

[Goldfield]

Overpay him and move him to guard. He is our best Linemen, Untill the rest of the line is fixed we cant get rid of a guy because he is overpaid.

Once the rest of the line is fill with good players then you can look at cap killling guys. But they have TONS of cap space this should even be an issue right now. But like allways money is allways an issue with this team.