LJ Collier's contract numbers

[BritCard]

What I said is absolutely true. You were calling out the fact that it was early in the free agency process and people were complaining. Now the bottom of the barrel signings are camp bodies with upside.

Well yes, it is true. They just aren't remotely connected.

 

[PJ1]

That is what bottom of the barrel is.

So we should have been patient for signings of camp bodies. And remember with upside.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is literally everything that happened during the 2003 offseason.

Yup… “belly of the beast!” “Graves has a plan!” “Assistant coaches who are teachers! (Aka WR coach Jerry Sullivan turned first time OC)”.

All the way down to people already defending a possible trading down and passing on the best pass rusher at a position of desperate need.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The 5-12 Broncos with Sean Payton and Walmart mega bucks you mean?

Because hiring a big name coach (Denny green) or spending lavishly (Dan Snyder) are sure promises of winning…

 

[BritCard]

So we should have been patient for signings of camp bodies. And remember with upside.

I wouldn't be waiting patiently for anything because they aren't going to make any big signings.

If they sign anyone for more than $5m per year I'll be surprised.

They are going to pick up bargains from deep in FA. They are going to add probably 10 draft picks after trading back and sign a bunch of UDFA's.

The average age of the final 53 will be about 25. More of them than any recent season will be rookies. Guys like Manny Jones are going to play a bunch.

And Kyler might miss half the season until everyone is sure his knee is stronger than ever, especially Kyler.

 

[kerouac9]

The 5-12 Broncos with Sean Payton and Walmart mega bucks you mean?

The one with a QB who hadn't thrown more TD passes than his home had bathrooms until week 16?

Are you saying that ownership, amenities, and facilities convinced a free agent to choose another franchise over the Arizona Cardinals?

Are you saying that Monti and Gannon couldn't sell a player on their vision over notorious drunk and drug abuser Sean Payton?

 

[kerouac9]

The average age of the final 53 will be about 25. More of them than any recent season will be rookies. Guys like Manny Jones are going to play a bunch.

This is a recipe for terrible football.

 

[BritCard]

This is a recipe for terrible football.

Now you get it.

 

[BritCard]

The one with a QB who hadn't thrown more TD passes than his home had bathrooms until week 16?

Are you saying that ownership, amenities, and facilities convinced a free agent to choose another franchise over the Arizona Cardinals?

Are you saying that Monti and Gannon couldn't sell a player on their vision over notorious drunk and drug abuser Sean Payton?

The same QB that was considered top 5 in the league before Hackett got hold of him? The same Payton you and everyone else wanted here?

Silly to argue that Denver isn't in an obvious better situation. At QB and the roster as a whole. Team has a top 5 defense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The same QB that was considered top 5 in the league before Hackett got hold of him? The same Payton you and everyone else wanted here?

Silly to argue that Denver isn't in an obvious better situation. At QB and the roster as a whole. Team has a top 5 defense.

Now this is revisionist history. That WB wasn’t “top 5” in his final season in Seattle. So it’s more than just Hackett. And if I recall correctly you were fine with the cardinals failing to sign that coach, so you obviously didn’t feel he would have much of an impact on winning when it suited your argument and now you’re flip flopping.

 

[PJ1]

Not sure how the 2 things are remotely connected?

People here have been saying for MONTHS that we weren't going to do **** in free agency in regards to big spending. Even @Stout was saying that.

It's been plainly obvious from the instant Kyler tore his ACL. Good players don't want to sign big long term deals with teams who's QB is recovering from an ACL and O's don't want to waste big money on losing seasons. I have no doubt after already having 3 of 4 losing seasons facing a 5th was a major factor in Allen choosing the Broncos and Murphy the Vikings.

The Brown's last year with Watsons suspension hanging over them did nothing in FA. Lot's of one year deals for journeymen. The only good add they made was the trade for Cooper.

When Burrow tore his ACL all but one of the Bengals offseason moves were short term deals for castoffs. The one deal they did pull off was Trey Hendrickson and at the time many thought it was a huge overpay for a 1 year starter from a stacked D line. Bengals fans wanted to keep Carl Lawson. Even the FO wanted to keep Lawson and only turned to Hendrickson when the Jets outbid them.

So yeah, forgive me if I find the shock that we aren't attracting free agents a bit tedious. In other news tomorrow is Thursday.

So with the upcoming season looking to be about as bad as it gets, we will then be able to attract top free agents? KM comes back to a **** show and we expect a fair evaluation? He does poorly with no help and free agents want to come here?

 

[Stout]

I wouldn't be waiting patiently for anything because they aren't going to make any big signings.

If they sign anyone for more than $5m per year I'll be surprised.

They are going to pick up bargains from deep in FA. They are going to add probably 10 draft picks after trading back and sign a bunch of UDFA's.

The average age of the final 53 will be about 25. More of them than any recent season will be rookies. Guys like Manny Jones are going to play a bunch.

And Kyler might miss half the season until everyone is sure his knee is stronger than ever, especially Kyler.

Right, the spaghetti against the all approach that passes on top talent and gives you a bunch of lesser chances to hit on talent. Yay?

 

[oaken1]

Right, the spaghetti against the all approach that passes on top talent and gives you a bunch of lesser chances to hit on talent. Yay?

They want you to really feel the weight of the draft.
Just imagine the IMPACT a few good rookies can have on the team!

 

[kerouac9]

The same QB that was considered top 5 in the league before Hackett got hold of him? The same Payton you and everyone else wanted here?

Silly to argue that Denver isn't in an obvious better situation. At QB and the roster as a whole. Team has a top 5 defense.

It's just so weird that you think that a defensive signing a four- or five-year contract is obsessed with the quarterback situation for the first six to eight weeks of his first season. It's crazy.

Wilson was on the fringe of the top 10 QBs after 2021. C'mon.

I was lukewarm on Payton.

 

[bankybruce]

Because hiring a big name coach (Denny green) or spending lavishly (Dan Snyder) are sure promises of winning…

Don't forget about this one!

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[cardncubfan]

The 5-12 Broncos with Sean Payton and Walmart mega bucks you mean?

So Muphy left the 4-13 Arizona Cardinals to join the 5-12 Denver Broncos because he's obsessed with winning?

Interesting take.

Murphy went to the Vikings not the Broncos. Allen went to Denver.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Didn't pay or commit much to get a look, so won't hurt you

The sunk rookie cost was the main reason he hung around in Seattle

With as bad as the Seattle DL has been and even getting gashed by the run this guy was either healthy in street clothes or a surprising name when looking at snap counts - as in being surprised he was in the field because the guy is mostly invisible

Seems like a good dude and a change of scenery could help....... But I wouldn't bank on any production

With his pay it won't even have an affect on the cap. He most likely won't be in the top 51, even if he makes the team. He'll get a good look in camp and preseason.

 

[BritCard]

So with the upcoming season looking to be about as bad as it gets, we will then be able to attract top free agents? KM comes back to a **** show and we expect a fair evaluation? He does poorly with no help and free agents want to come here?

Teams that had bad seasons attract top free agents every year. Players aren't concerned about what just happened, they are interested in what they can see coming. They see a team with some good young players, some draft capital and cap space to add FA's (and pay them) that's all they care about.

Bears were the worst team in football last year, have been bad for years, but made a bunch of FA moves. Texans have been trash for years but have made a bunch of moves.

Same with the Falcons. Broncos. Panthers etc.

What we do next year will have zero effect on signing FA's the year after.

This is a multi year rebuilding process that sadly being hampered by having a hobbled QB.

 

[BritCard]

It's just so weird that you think that a defensive signing a four- or five-year contract is obsessed with the quarterback situation for the first six to eight weeks of his first season. It's crazy.

Wilson was on the fringe of the top 10 QBs after 2021. C'mon.

I was lukewarm on Payton.

Good players care about winning. Next year has been a 100% losing season since the moment Kyler was injured. Nobody here picked the Cards to have a winning season in the predictions thread.

Even after that this roster is in a multi year rebuild. Why would any player choose that over any other team in the league?

Answer this. What team has a worse situation than the Cards?

 

[kerouac9]

Good players care about winning. Next year has been a 100% losing season since the moment Kyler was injured. Nobody here picked the Cards to have a winning season in the predictions thread.

Even after that this roster is in a multi year rebuild. Why would any player choose that over any other team in the league?

Answer this. What team has a worse situation than the Cards?

The Cards have a bad situation because of the front office’s moves. Going into the season, there was no reason to think they couldn’t be a seven-win team or better.

The Bears, Broncos, Texans, Colts, Commies, Browns, Raiders, Panthers, and Falcons all have similarly bad situations. It doesn’t matter because good players want to get paid first.

A winning situation matters about as much as free takeaway dinners.

 

[BritCard]

The Cards have a bad situation because of the front office’s moves. Going into the season, there was no reason to think they couldn’t be a seven-win team or better.

The Bears, Broncos, Texans, Colts, Commies, Browns, Raiders, Panthers, and Falcons all have similarly bad situations. It doesn’t matter because good players want to get paid first.

A winning situation matters about as much as free takeaway dinners.

Steve Keim hacked you.

You didn't think we were a 7 win team last year with a fully healthy Kyler and you think there was a chance we could be a 7+ win team this year with a QB missing at least 4 games, probably more, who's going to be tentative as heck when back and after losing Watt, Hudson and Hopkins?

If they went peak Steve Keim and blew all the cap space on free agents (and we'd have to overpay to attract them), resigned Allen and Murphy and absolutely crushed the draft and got 3-4 good starters maybe they could have got 7+ wins if Kyler came back early and hit the ground running. If we literally landed everything we could be mediocre and still not make the playoffs.

What would be the point? We'd just be shooting ourselves in the foot for the future.

 

[Harry]

Great post! This guy cannot get to the QB, but he can stop the run! He absolutely has to play on the inside.

Here’s what the NFL’s own draft sight said about his rushing prowess
“

• Only one season as full-time starter
• Slow reaction time to the snap
• Not a natural knee-bender
• Lacks change-of-direction quickness to mirror movement and tackle
• Upfield burst is dull whether standing or with a hand in the ground
• Easy to find and punch when attempting to bend the corner as rusher
• Inconsistent sack finisher against pocket-mobile quarterbacks
• Struggle to sustain motor for secondary rush production”

His combine numbers were mediocre. I, along with others, were surprised he was drafted so highly.

 

[kerouac9]

Steve Keim hacked you.

You didn't think we were a 7 win team last year with a fully healthy Kyler and you think there was a chance we could be a 7+ win team this year with a QB missing at least 4 games, probably more, who's going to be tentative as heck when back and after losing Watt, Hudson and Hopkins?

If they went peak Steve Keim and blew all the cap space on free agents (and we'd have to overpay to attract them), resigned Allen and Murphy and absolutely crushed the draft and got 3-4 good starters maybe they could have got 7+ wins if Kyler came back early and hit the ground running. If we literally landed everything we could be mediocre and still not make the playoffs.

What would be the point? We'd just be shooting ourselves in the foot for the future.

I thought we were a 9-win team last year with a fully healthy Kyler.

I think with Murphy and Allen and an aggressive roster-building plan we could have competed for seven wins this year with Murray out for eight games or so. I don't understand the baseless assertion that we needed "blow all the cap space on free agents."

There really haven't been any shocking big ticket FAs in this group outside teams singing their own. Whom do you think people were targeting as cap-busting FA acquisitions? People here still pretending like it's 2002.

We had 4 wins last season with a pythagorean win expectation of 5.8. If our shiny new coaching staff is worth one more win, we're close without adding a top 3 pick. The big loss is Watt, but one hopes that a top 3 pick plus another candle on the cake for Cameron Thomas, Myjai Sanders, and Zach Allen spreads out some of the risk.

I don't know why this is difficult to understand or believe. We just watched the New York Giants and Jacksonville Jaguars turn their teams around in one season. The default for an NFL team is seven wins or more. Last year 25 of 32 teams had seven wins or more.

What is the future y'all forsee in 2024?

 

[BritCard]

I thought we were a 9-win team last year with a fully healthy Kyler.

I think with Murphy and Allen and an aggressive roster-building plan we could have competed for seven wins this year with Murray out for eight games or so. I don't understand the baseless assertion that we needed "blow all the cap space on free agents."

There really haven't been any shocking big ticket FAs in this group outside teams singing their own. Whom do you think people were targeting as cap-busting FA acquisitions? People here still pretending like it's 2002.

We had 4 wins last season with a pythagorean win expectation of 5.8. If our shiny new coaching staff is worth one more win, we're close without adding a top 3 pick. The big loss is Watt, but one hopes that a top 3 pick plus another candle on the cake for Cameron Thomas, Myjai Sanders, and Zach Allen spreads out some of the risk.

I don't know why this is difficult to understand or believe. We just watched the New York Giants and Jacksonville Jaguars turn their teams around in one season. The default for an NFL team is seven wins or more. Last year 25 of 32 teams had seven wins or more.

What is the future y'all forsee in 2024?

Kyler is likely going to miss a load of games. Th Org likely thinks he's going to miss a load of games. I don;t think the Org or Kyler will be in any rush to get back until everyone is 110% sure his knee can handle it. Why would you push all your chips in for this year knowing that?

I expect them to draft heavily for the trenches this year, probably a CB in there too. Then I expect in 2024 they will sign FA's to fill some of the holes they have remaining but even then probably not huge signings.

The only way you can really compete with a QB earning what Kyler does is through the draft. I expect this team going forward will be built around draft picks and supplemented with vets.

We might get worse yet until we get better. I don't think a Budda trade is off the cards or should be. I think Ertz could go before the trade deadline. I think Hump is a prime candidate to go, possibly not this year but next (depending on the draft). Hollywood should be on the block too.

 

[PJ1]

Teams that had bad seasons attract top free agents every year. Players aren't concerned about what just happened, they are interested in what they can see coming. They see a team with some good young players, some draft capital and cap space to add FA's (and pay them) that's all they care about.

Bears were the worst team in football last year, have been bad for years, but made a bunch of FA moves. Texans have been trash for years but have made a bunch of moves.

Same with the Falcons. Broncos. Panthers etc.

What we do next year will have zero effect on signing FA's the year after.

This is a multi year rebuilding process that sadly being hampered by having a hobbled QB.

Disagree. One draft won’t drastically change the trajectory of a team this short on talent. Also, if KM comes back (which I believe he will) and the results are bad we will be as big a mess as we are now. You said you aren’t shocked at all we aren’t attracting free agents this year but will have no problem next year. A 2-3 win season and the negative publicity it brings, coupled with a team without enough talent to help management judge KM will not put us in a good position in FA.