Looking at the future

[AzStevenCal]

What a tacky monstrosity. I hate Sarver even more now, and I didn't think that was possible. What a wasteful buffoon.

Uhhm, why? I never begrudge anyone how they choose to spend their money, what is it that's driving you in this "hatred"? Do you feel this way about the wealthy in general?

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

“He’s always going to be day-to-day,” Hornacek said of Len. “This is what we anticipated would probably happen all year. However, the way he came back in the beginning, we thought maybe it won’t be like that. Obviously, when you have those surgeries and the pounding and the extra weight that he has on, we knew it was a possibility. It’s not an injury."

That last sentence is not reassuring, its kind of horrifying. Not an injury, nope... instead the dude just has really bad ankles that are going to cause him pain on a mere 10-15 minutes of play a few times a week. What a disaster. With this going on I'd would imagine he hardly practices either, and for a raw rookie... thats bad.

I really really want to be wrong about Len, and I'm not saying he is necessarily doomed yet, but man what a bummer his situation is. Even in the rare moments we've gotten to see him on the court he has looked lousy. The only gloom in an otherwise merry turn of events for this franchise.

 

[Mainstreet]

maybe all those people who continually bashed those who were worried about his ankles can see why we worried now.

That last sentence is not reassuring, its kind of horrifying. Not an injury, nope... instead the dude just has really bad ankles that are going to cause him pain on a mere 10-15 minutes of play a few times a week. What a disaster. With this going on I'd would imagine he hardly practices either, and for a raw rookie... thats bad.

I really really want to be wrong about Len, and I'm not saying he is necessarily doomed yet, but man what a bummer his situation is. Even in the rare moments we've gotten to see him on the court he has looked lousy. The only gloom in an otherwise merry turn of events for this franchise.

I understand why there were those who knocked the Len selection because of concern for his ankles. It is a legitimate concern that is playing out right now and perhaps throughout his whole career.

However, I put my faith in GM Ryan McDonough and the Suns medical staff for doing their homework. That doesn't mean all will turn out well, but I trust their decision making overall. I believe they will make good decisions for the most part. However, I do not think any front office bats 100%. I'm still hoping for the best with Len as I believe the Suns drafted him as a long term project. I think it will take several seasons for Len to show his worth.

 

[elindholm]

However, I put my faith in GM Ryan McDonough and the Suns medical staff for doing their homework. That doesn't mean all will turn out well, but I trust their decision making overall. I believe they will make good decisions for the most part. However, I do not think any front office bats 100%.

Exactly, which is why it's legitimate for someone to say they think the front office has made a mistake.

The only move that McDonough has made so far that I'd call "better than average" is the Bledsoe acquisition. I doubt that Bledsoe can keep up his current pace, but I'm convinced that he has star potential, and that's something.

Dumping Scola and Gortat for next to nothing were okay moves, but certainly not inspired ones: Both were serviceable bigs on good contracts, and probably could have fetched more under the right circumstances.

Exchanging a handful of small, useless expiring contracts for one huge, useless expiring contract (Okafor) does nothing for me. It looks cleaner to have all of the dead weight confined in one body, but waiving people would have accomplished the same thing.

Len was a blown pick and it's too soon to tell about Goodwin.

Plumlee may prove to be a major asset, which would be another good move, but it's too soon to tell. Lots of big men have the occasional blow-up game and then go back to being non-factors.

Green is what he is. When he's making shots, he's a good player.

So overall, I don't see that this front office is doing anything particularly well. They've been competent, with some good moves and some bad ones. That's an improvement over the recent past, but still not immensely exciting.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Exactly, which is why it's legitimate for someone to say they think the front office has made a mistake.

The only move that McDonough has made so far that I'd call "better than average" is the Bledsoe acquisition. I doubt that Bledsoe can keep up his current pace, but I'm convinced that he has star potential, and that's something.

Dumping Scola and Gortat for next to nothing were okay moves, but certainly not inspired ones: Both were serviceable bigs on good contracts, and probably could have fetched more under the right circumstances.

Exchanging a handful of small, useless expiring contracts for one huge, useless expiring contract (Okafor) does nothing for me. It looks cleaner to have all of the dead weight confined in one body, but waiving people would have accomplished the same thing.

Len was a blown pick and it's too soon to tell about Goodwin.

Plumlee may prove to be a major asset, which would be another good move, but it's too soon to tell. Lots of big men have the occasional blow-up game and then go back to being non-factors.

Green is what he is. When he's making shots, he's a good player.

So overall, I don't see that this front office is doing anything particularly well. They've been competent, with some good moves and some bad ones. That's an improvement over the recent past, but still not immensely exciting.

is there a reason you just completely keep ignoring the fact that they stockpiled first round picks in a draft that everyone pretty much is saying will be a bonanza when saying we got next to nothing for Scola and Gortat?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Exactly, which is why it's legitimate for someone to say they think the front office has made a mistake.

The only move that McDonough has made so far that I'd call "better than average" is the Bledsoe acquisition. I doubt that Bledsoe can keep up his current pace, but I'm convinced that he has star potential, and that's something.

Dumping Scola and Gortat for next to nothing were okay moves, but certainly not inspired ones: Both were serviceable bigs on good contracts, and probably could have fetched more under the right circumstances.

Exchanging a handful of small, useless expiring contracts for one huge, useless expiring contract (Okafor) does nothing for me. It looks cleaner to have all of the dead weight confined in one body, but waiving people would have accomplished the same thing.

Len was a blown pick and it's too soon to tell about Goodwin.

Plumlee may prove to be a major asset, which would be another good move, but it's too soon to tell. Lots of big men have the occasional blow-up game and then go back to being non-factors.

Green is what he is. When he's making shots, he's a good player.

So overall, I don't see that this front office is doing anything particularly well. They've been competent, with some good moves and some bad ones. That's an improvement over the recent past, but still not immensely exciting.

I don't see these moves as average, I see them as solid, good moves. It seems to me that that is the way most good front offices function.

Bledsoe aquisition, great move.

Scola for Green, Plumlee, and a pick, could be a great move. Instead of waiting to try to score a home run at the trade deadline, he took the best option available at the time. He bought both Plumlee and Green when their value was low.

Gortat for Okafor and a pick. Solid. Got a pick and cleared the chaff out of the roster so the young guys could play. This move really changed the demeanor of the team and might be the biggest reason for the attitude these players are playing with now. Yes, he could have cut the players, but then there would be no pick.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't see these moves as average, I see them as solid, good moves. It seems to me that that is the way most good front offices function.

Bledsoe aquisition, great move.

Scola for Green, Plumlee, and a pick, could be a great move. Instead of waiting to try to score a home run at the trade deadline, he took the best option available at the time. He bought both Plumlee and Green when their value was low.

Gortat for Okafor and a pick. Solid. Got a pick and cleared the chaff out of the roster so the young guys could play. This move really changed the demeanor of the team and might be the biggest reason for the attitude these players are playing with now. Yes, he could have cut the players, but then there would be no pick.

agreed. the idea that Scola...a solid backup big man, could have fetched more then a first round pick in a great draft is extremely questionable to me.

maybe we could have gotten a little more out of Gortat, but that might have come at the price of the team playing a little better and winning games that could hurt our lotto chances. either way, it's another first round pick to build in the future.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I think you're selling the FO a bit short there, Eric.

Exchanging a handful of small, useless expiring contracts for one huge, useless expiring contract (Okafor) does nothing for me. It looks cleaner to have all of the dead weight confined in one body, but waiving people would have accomplished the same thing.

True, but we got a reasonable draft pick and freed up some time for Plumlee, who fits the character of this team much better, and Goodwin/Green (and to a lesser extent Ish but I believe he was ahead of Marshall anyways).

So overall, I don't see that this front office is doing anything particularly well.

I think what I am most happy about is there seems to be a coherent fit to all the acquisitions coming in and that they've been able to build an identity for the team. That's a lot more than can be said about Blanks.

 

[elindholm]

I don't see these moves as average, I see them as solid, good moves. It seems to me that that is the way most good front offices function.

Well, right. I meant average by the standard of competent NBA front offices. So yes, they know what they're doing.

Scola for Green, Plumlee, and a pick, could be a great move.

Gortat for Okafor and a pick.

Even in a rich draft, mid-to-late first-rounders aren't worth that much. The chances of the Suns getting a "keeper" with any of those picks are pretty low. Sure, it's good to have them, but I think it's pretty unlikely that we'll look back in a few years at a player in the starting lineup and say, "That was the pick we got for Scola!"

 

[elindholm]

I think what I am most happy about is there seems to be a coherent fit to all the acquisitions coming in and that they've been able to build an identity for the team.

Those are good things, but I don't regard them as exceptional. Any solid NBA GM should be able to establish a coherent plan and work toward building a team identity.

That's a lot more than can be said about Blanks.

Yes, but that's a false comparison. If you give me the choice of eating Olive Garden versus dog crap, I'll happily choose Olive Garden, but that doesn't make it a great restaurant -- just a competent one.

 

[Superbone]

Exactly, which is why it's legitimate for someone to say they think the front office has made a mistake.

...

Len was a blown pick and it's too soon to tell about Goodwin.

Sure, it's legitimate to be concerned but it's way, way too early to be making that last statement. It's laughable to me. Have a little patience, dude.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, right. I meant average by the standard of competent NBA front offices. So yes, they know what they're doing.



Even in a rich draft, mid-to-late first-rounders aren't worth that much. The chances of the Suns getting a "keeper" with any of those picks are pretty low. Sure, it's good to have them, but I think it's pretty unlikely that we'll look back in a few years at a player in the starting lineup and say, "That was the pick we got for Scola!"

um...okay. so what exactly DO you think we could have gotten for a backup, yet solid big man, who's past his prime? the idea that you're poo-pooing a first round pick in a talent rich draft without hypothesizing what greater good they could have done just feels like you being unreasonably pessimistic just because.

why don't you tell us what they could have done that would have made you happy by now?

and remember, I'm one who LOATHED the Len pick, but can still see enough positives outside of that pick to see really solid signs of hope for the future.

 

[Mainstreet]

Exactly, which is why it's legitimate for someone to say they think the front office has made a mistake.

The only move that McDonough has made so far that I'd call "better than average" is the Bledsoe acquisition. I doubt that Bledsoe can keep up his current pace, but I'm convinced that he has star potential, and that's something.

Dumping Scola and Gortat for next to nothing were okay moves, but certainly not inspired ones: Both were serviceable bigs on good contracts, and probably could have fetched more under the right circumstances.

Exchanging a handful of small, useless expiring contracts for one huge, useless expiring contract (Okafor) does nothing for me. It looks cleaner to have all of the dead weight confined in one body, but waiving people would have accomplished the same thing.

Len was a blown pick and it's too soon to tell about Goodwin.

Plumlee may prove to be a major asset, which would be another good move, but it's too soon to tell. Lots of big men have the occasional blow-up game and then go back to being non-factors.

Green is what he is. When he's making shots, he's a good player.

So overall, I don't see that this front office is doing anything particularly well. They've been competent, with some good moves and some bad ones. That's an improvement over the recent past, but still not immensely exciting.

It's too early to say if drafting Len was a mistake. As I said, I think the Suns drafted him as a long term project based upon his upside. IMO, it will take several years to judge him. I really like the Goodwin pick. It will take time for him to develop as well but I already think he has star potential as he is only 19. The other moves made by McDonough have already been aptly covered. Just the Bledsoe acquisition and the Scola trade blows my mind.

 

[Phrazbit]

I cant believe how much value McDonough extracted from that disaster of a roster last year. He made the team better, younger, far more exciting to watch and GAINED two first round picks and future cap space in the process.

And like cheese... this is from someone who hated the Len pick.

Outside of that move I have been very impressed by our front offices work. And its not just the moves themselves but, more importantly, you can see a clear plan and direction in the way he is building the roster and setting them up for the future.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Those are good things, but I don't regard them as exceptional. Any solid NBA GM should be able to establish a coherent plan and work toward building a team identity.



Yes, but that's a fall comparison. If you give me the choice of eating Olive Garden versus dog crap, I'll happily choose Olive Garden, but that doesn't make it a great restaurant -- just a competent one.

You could argue that none of the individual moves were exceptional (except maybe the one for Bledsoe). However I think what makes McD an exceptional GM is that he completely made over the entire roster to fit what we are trying to accomplish in just one off-season. So yes any one move might be considered only average, but the sum of all the moves equals exceptional to me.

 

[Superbone]

You could argue that none of the individual moves were exceptional (except maybe the one for Bledsoe). However I think what makes McD an exceptional GM is that he completely made over the entire roster to fit what we are trying to accomplish in just one off-season. So yes any one move might be considered only average, but the sum of all the moves equals exceptional to me.

Great point.

 

[SirStefan32]

Even in a rich draft, mid-to-late first-rounders aren't worth that much. The chances of the Suns getting a "keeper" with any of those picks are pretty low. Sure, it's good to have them, but I think it's pretty unlikely that we'll look back in a few years at a player in the starting lineup and say, "That was the pick we got for Scola!"

I think one thing to remember is that draft picks are an asset when it comes to trades as well.

 

[elindholm]

I think one thing to remember is that draft picks are an asset when it comes to trades as well.

Apparently, since picks enabled the Pacers and Wizards to land Scola and Gortat.

 

[Mainstreet]

Apparently, since picks enabled the Pacers and Wizards to land Scola and Gortat.

Let's see how those picks are used, but I think McDonough has already proved he is a better than average GM. As I said before, look at the Scola trade leaving Bledsoe out of the equation.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Let's see how those picks are used, but I think McDonough has already proved he is a better than average GM. As I said before, look at the Scola trade leaving Bledsoe out of the equation.

Signing Scola was one big plus for Blanks. Turned that asset into Plumlee green and a pick.

 

[JS22]

Those are good things, but I don't regard them as exceptional. Any solid NBA GM should be able to establish a coherent plan and work toward building a team identity.



Yes, but that's a false comparison. If you give me the choice of eating Olive Garden versus dog crap, I'll happily choose Olive Garden, but that doesn't make it a great restaurant -- just a competent one.

I take it you've never been to an Olive Garden?

 

[Superbone]

There must be something wrong with me. I like Olive Garden. Is it my favorite Italian restaurant? Not by a long shot. They sure are the brunt of a lot of jokes this decade though.

 

[JS22]

There must be something wrong with me. I like Olive Garden. Is it my favorite Italian restaurant? Not by a long shot. They sure are the brunt of a lot of jokes this decade though.

I've been there 3x over the past 10 years. 3 bad experiences. Bland and overrated.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There must be something wrong with me. I like Olive Garden. Is it my favorite Italian restaurant? Not by a long shot. They sure are the brunt of a lot of jokes this decade though.

I'm with you although I think it might vary by location. The one we have in Moreno Valley was great for a long time and then went through a stretch where it was disappointing but the others we'd occasionally frequent were still great. We have better Italian restaurants within a short distance so I don't eat there often but I still prefer it to many of the other chain restaurants.

Steve

 

[BC867]

I've been there 3x over the past 10 years. 3 bad experiences. Bland and overrated.

In all fairness, Olive Garden improved when their owners Darden Restaurants (who also own Red Lobster, LongHorn Steakhouse, Bahama Breeze, Seasons 52, The Capital Grille, Eddie V's and Yard House) started intermingling food between Olive Garden and Red Lobster. That improved the quality, especially of Olive Garden.

Here in the Valley, you won't see an Olive Garden without a Red Lobster either next door or no more than a block away.