Looking at the future

[Mainstreet]

It's kind of like arguing the merits of horse poop over dog poop. I sort of have an opinion, but I don't really want to talk about it much.

If it matters in this conversation, dogs love to eat horse poop so I guess horse poop rules.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If it matters in this conversation, dogs love to eat horse poop so I guess horse poop rules.

Couldn't you guys take this to the Poop forum?

Steve

 

[elindholm]

You said 3 games is a "terrific run". I disagree--I think it's a few games of good play.

Since I'm sure we'd agree that "three games" and "a few games" are the same thing in this context, then I can only conclude that you take issue with my calling 23 and 9 "terrific" for a player taken in the middle of the first round, whereas you consider it only "good."

Stretch that out and we can talk.

If he stretches it out, it will no longer be three games. I was talking about a run of three games, only. It couldn't have been any clearer.

Just out of curiosity, what would constitute a "terrific" three-game stretch for Morris, in your opinion?

I didn't attack you, even indirectly like you just did.

Of course you did. Sneering at my perspective and then saying "But that's just me" is an indirect attack. And that's fine: I don't mind indirect attacks, or even direct ones, as long as they're grounded in a substantive disagreement that can actually be discussed. But don't try to say it's not an attack -- that's an insult to the intelligence of both of us.

 

[Errntknght]

Um. Yes. Lopez has had every opportunity and has been miserable on the court. I really thought he had potential at the beginning. Clark really began to produce last year for the Lakers, not sure how he is doing now in his new digs. I do know this, Lopez got minutes that Clark did not.

I am sure I am in the minority on this.

He may not continue to get minutes... in six games so far in Cleveland, he'd look familiar to us. Statistically, he's malodorous...

 

[Chaplin]

Of course you did. Sneering at my perspective and then saying "But that's just me" is an indirect attack. And that's fine: I don't mind indirect attacks, or even direct ones, as long as they're grounded in a substantive disagreement that can actually be discussed. But don't try to say it's not an attack -- that's an insult to the intelligence of both of us.

I knew that's how you'd respond, would have it been less insulting if I would have put "IMO" instead? Semantics aside, I think he's had 3 good games in a row--but that doesn't make me like him any more than I already do (which is very little). If he is doing this game in and game out for 2 weeks, then I'll definitely start eating crow.

That said, Tony Delk scored 50 one game but that didn't mean much in teh scheme of things, and I'm thinking that we are all talking about Kieff's usefulness going forward, and he hasn't proven that he will be. Yet. The signs are admittedly encouraging though.

 

[BC867]

Especially with Markieff playing Power Forward 23 feet from the basket.

I am not saying the fault was all theirs (the Morris's). It took Jeff Hornacek to put them on the right track.

No it had not, Markieff as well as Marcus are still on rookie deals. Talk about exagerated expectations.

Suns fans can't seem to grasp that players take time to develop into something.

Not every rookie turns into an allstar player while on a rookie contract. Markieff has always looked well on the way to being a very solid role player in the NBA.

C'mon slin, my comment was very specific. It took Jeff Hornacek to put Markeiff down low as opposed to his playing offense 23 feet from the basket. That has made the difference. Using his speed and bulk in the post to his advantage vs. camped out at the 3-point line like a Guard.

Your responses are very general. "Rookie deals." "Exaggerated expectations." "Players take time to develop." "Turns into an all star player."

The longer Markieff tried to immitate Channing Frye, as a 3rd Guard on offense, the less chance that he would develop into a skilled Power Forward.

That is not a vague concept about a young player. It is very specific about this particular player.

 

[elindholm]

Semantics aside, I think he's had 3 good games in a row--but that doesn't make me like him any more than I already do (which is very little).

I'm still skeptical too, as I said.

If he is doing this game in and game out for 2 weeks, then I'll definitely start eating crow.

"It's unlikely to last." But three very good games are three very good games.

 

[BC867]

I'm still skeptical too, as I said.

"It's unlikely to last." But three very good games are three very good games.

Talking about Markieff (not Marcus), he is right now the best Power Forward on the Suns roster. Especially since the coaches him playing to his advantage.

I believe that, whether as a role player, an average player or a key member of the rotation, Markieff is not a flash in the pan.

I think we are seeing his true potential. And as long as the coaching staff is teaching him and monitoring him, I do expect it to last.

Whether he continues to come off the bench or becomes the everyday starter at PF. Because, either way, he has established himself as our closer at that position, unless he needs to fill in at Center at the end of the game.

At best, Channing Frye at PF is a gimmick 3-point shooter who can grab some rebounds. He is not a low post threat. He is not an all-around Power Forward. The role is there for Markief to fill. He doesn't have to be an All Star to do it well.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Olive Garden, Earl Clark, and Poop. This thread is epic.

I still cant believe the OPs take on Bledsoe. Sometimes its hard to see the forest through the trees. Since hes been here hes avg over 20 pts, fills up the box score, solid defensively, elite physically, gets to cup at will, hit a game winning shot.

Hes this years James Harden and will be no brainer max guy at end of season IMO.

 

[Gaddabout]

Olive Garden, Earl Clark, and Poop. This thread is epic.

I still cant believe the OPs take on Bledsoe. Sometimes its hard to see the forest through the trees. Since hes been here hes avg over 20 pts, fills up the box score, solid defensively, elite physically, gets to cup at will, hit a game winning shot.

Hes this years James Harden and will be no brainer max guy at end of season IMO.

I was about to balk until I looked up the numbers. Somehow, offensively, this isn't a horrible comparison.

Last year, Harden had a TS% of 60 with an assist ratio 18.7. This year (so far), Bledsoe has a TS% of of 62 with an assist ratio of 26.7. Both would be career highs for EB. Harden was a 23 PER in 12-13. This year, Bledsoe is a 24.75 PER.

The only player with a better PER on the Suns is *take a deep breath and sit down* Markieff Morris at 24.79. Morris and Bledsoe are No. 11 and 12 in the NBA in that stat, respectively.

 

[Sci Fi]

.

 

[BC867]

.

That time of the month, huh?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I was about to balk until I looked up the numbers. Somehow, offensively, this isn't a horrible comparison.

Last year, Harden had a TS% of 60 with an assist ratio 18.7. This year (so far), Bledsoe has a TS% of of 62 with an assist ratio of 26.7. Both would be career highs for EB. Harden was a 23 PER in 12-13. This year, Bledsoe is a 24.75 PER.

The only player with a better PER on the Suns is *take a deep breath and sit down* Markieff Morris at 24.79. Morris and Bledsoe are No. 11 and 12 in the NBA in that stat, respectively.

Thats not even factoring his defense where I think he is much better then Harden. That is good info above but I dont need the advanced stats to tell me what my eyes see. Guy is physiclaly gifted, has feel for the game, and has played better as his time on the floor has gone up.

That trade was a coup and will be one of the shining moves of McDonoughs long and illustrious career as Suns GM.

 

[Suns_fan69]

The thing that's impressed me with Bledsoe is that he gets better as the pressure ramps up. How many big 3's has he hit in the 4th quarter? For a relatively poor career 3pt shooter he can really make it when it counts.

 

[ProdigalSun]

The thing that's impressed me with Bledsoe is that he gets better as the pressure ramps up. How many big 3's has he hit in the 4th quarter? For a relatively poor career 3pt shooter he can really make it when it counts.

Yeah I've noticed that too. Late in games it looks as if he just plays more instinctually and aggressively without thinking too much maybe thats why?

 

[Mainstreet]

The thing that's impressed me with Bledsoe is that he gets better as the pressure ramps up. How many big 3's has he hit in the 4th quarter? For a relatively poor career 3pt shooter he can really make it when it counts.

This is what says star potential to me. I wish the Suns already had him wrapped up to a long term contract. If the Suns were looking for a star to build around, they need to search no further than their own backyard.

 

[Superbone]

The thing that's impressed me with Bledsoe is that he gets better as the pressure ramps up. How many big 3's has he hit in the 4th quarter? For a relatively poor career 3pt shooter he can really make it when it counts.

Yep, we're seeing that he has the clutch gene.

 

[Suns_fan69]

On the flipside, his defense isn't really as impressive as I thought it would be. Judging strictly by my eye test (i've seen 5 of the 7 games so far), for every good defensive possession he has, he gets burned on unnecessary gambles. The Tony Parker layup at the end of the Spurs game is probably the most obvious example, but there's been several more which in many cases causes the defense to collapse.

 

[AzStevenCal]

On the flipside, his defense isn't really as impressive as I thought it would be. Judging strictly by my eye test (i've seen 5 of the 7 games so far), for every good defensive possession he has, he gets burned on unnecessary gambles. The Tony Parker layup at the end of the Spurs game is probably the most obvious example, but there's been several more which in many cases causes the defense to collapse.

His defense hasn't been perfect but I was actually thinking the opposite. I've been pleased in how well he defended without gambling. Usually, guards that get a lot of steals do so at the expense of the team D but most of his steals seem to have been on-the-ball while maintaining good position. Not that he doesn't gamble occasionally but it's been far less than I was expecting. Getting burned by Tony Parker is just the cost of playing PG in the NBA IMO. I'll try to pay closer attention though as maybe I've been influenced by seeing what I want to see.

Steve

 

[Suns_fan69]

His defense hasn't been perfect but I was actually thinking the opposite. I've been pleased in how well he defended without gambling. Usually, guards that get a lot of steals do so at the expense of the team D but most of his steals seem to have been on-the-ball while maintaining good position. Not that he doesn't gamble occasionally but it's been far less than I was expecting. Getting burned by Tony Parker is just the cost of playing PG in the NBA IMO. I'll try to pay closer attention though as maybe I've been influenced by seeing what I want to see.

Steve

I agree, his on ball stuff is generally pretty good (especially on the PnR). It's his off ball playing the passing lanes that I have more issues with. I'll admit, maybe the TP play is clouding my judgement too but all that being said, he's still a joy to watch.

 

[Superbone]

I loved Bled's Nash-like pass on the pick and roll to Plumlee last night.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I loved Bled's Nash-like pass on the pick and roll to Plumlee last night.

I think he's an excellent passer although he does struggle with the long distance and alley-oop pass. He may not have the vision of a Steve Nash but he makes some beautiful passes. Speaking of passes, I forget when it happened but Markieff had a real nice one on a fast break last night too.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

Speaking of passes, I forget when it happened but Markieff had a real nice one on a fast break last night too.

Yeah, that was great. It was a nice bounce pass near the end of the game to Dragic for the layup with Marcus trailing.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah, that was great. It was a nice bounce pass near the end of the game to Dragic for the layup with Marcus trailing.

Yeah, that was it. I'm re-watching the Denver game tonight and I'll watch Sunday's game a second time tomorrow night. Last year I think I re-watched 2 games all season. As of tomorrow night I will have re-watched all 7 games.

This team is just so much more fun to watch than last year's. Granted, we've had a few stretches where it was a little bit like watching paint dry but for the most part this has been a very exciting team to watch. I get caught up in the excitement of the game the first time through but I get to relax and focus on specific players when I re-watch.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

Yeah, that was it. I'm re-watching the Denver game tonight and I'll watch Sunday's game a second time tomorrow night. Last year I think I re-watched 2 games all season. As of tomorrow night I will have re-watched all 7 games.

This team is just so much more fun to watch than last year's. Granted, we've had a few stretches where it was a little bit like watching paint dry but for the most part this has been a very exciting team to watch. I get caught up in the excitement of the game the first time through but I get to relax and focus on specific players when I re-watch.

Steve

Heh. Lately, I've been recording both team's broadcasts and then go back and watch key points of the game to see how the other team's announcers react.