Lost - Season 4 (spoilers)

[abomb]

Lost is here again. I love this day of the week.

Only nine hours until we all hop back in here and say "WTF?".

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Happy Lost day!

 

[Dback Jon]

OK - WTF??


Was that who I thought it was at the end???

 

[DWKB]

Yes, Sayid was working (although it appears not willingly) for Ben off the Island to kill people 'on the list'. The German chick had the same bracelet as Naomi did. We need to know who R. G. is now.

 

[blindseyed]

Well this certainly isn't going where I thought it was gonna go. Just my stupid opinion but the only thing I liked about the episode was the "time warp" thing with that beacon. Seems to be a bend in time which makes me wonder if Jack wasn't to get back to the island to change time and events.

 

[Gaddabout]

So Locke is really ... Geronimo?

 

[Mike Olbinski]

So Locke is really ... Geronimo?

What?

 

[Gaddabout]

What?

Locke's the protector of the island, the native people, evading troops with clever tactics. I thought Sayid was going to kick Locke's butt, but Locke out-smarted him and wisely bargained prisoners.

If Locke hides in a cave and comes out another end no one knows about, I think I know the direction they're going with this character.

 

[jefftheshark]

Locke's the protector of the island, the native people, evading troops with clever tactics. I thought Sayid was going to kick Locke's butt, but Locke out-smarted him and wisely bargained prisoners.

If Locke hides in a cave and comes out another end no one knows about, I think I know the direction they're going with this character.

Geronimo escaped from the cave, but he was eventually captured, exiled to Florida and ultimately became a carnival novelty act. He never returned to the land he was protecting.

Is this what you are predicting?

JTS

 

[Gaddabout]

Geronimo escaped from the cave, but he was eventually captured, exiled to Florida and ultimately became a carnival novelty act. He never returned to the land he was protecting.

Is this what you are predicting?

JTS

I thought Hurley's comment about Locke being "off the reservation" was telling. Considering Locke's special commune with the land and the increasing likelihood of Locke's group being chased around the island, they seem to be setting Locke up to play out the stories of the Native American warrior-priest.

Questions remain about whether Locke is still the heart of the show. I would say no, Locke's lost that role to Hurley, who was thrust into more of the spiritual caretaker role when Locke went off on his vision quest. I think it started when Hurley started gaining confidence by:

1) Beating Sawyer at ping pong, embarrassing Sawyer and gaining some credibility among the group

2) Fixing up the car and lifting the spirits of the leadership

3) His sudden stroke of heroism at the end of Season 3 that literally turned the tables and put the survivors back in control for the moment

4) His actions driven by compassion, rather than desperation, for Charlie. Everyone else is acting on impulse. Hurley seems like the only one making human decisions, so he is now our ... intermediary? ... from our world to the Lost world.

The problem with this is Hurley is not a leader, not by a long shot, even though he is capable of some superior moments because of his unselfish and pure worldview. Hurley doesn't want to lead. So eventually they'll have to shift that role back to Locke, I think. No one else seems capable. Sayid is still too hard, Jack is too rational and rigid, Kate and Sawyer are too conflicted. Locke's the only one left who can capture "absolute truth" in a bottle and deliver it to the group.

So ... yes, I see Geronimo, or Cochise, or Crazy Horse. I see the writers transforming Locke into a native chief, chosen, to protect the land and its native people. As we all should know, life was never easy for those heroes, and it never ended well for them. All of those Native American heroes had two things going for them in spite of unfavorable odds: they're unwavering faith and their intimate knowledge of the land they defended. Sound familiar?

 

[jefftheshark]

I thought Hurley's comment about Locke being "off the reservation" was telling. Considering Locke's special commune with the land and the increasing likelihood of Locke's group being chased around the island, they seem to be setting Locke up to play out the stories of the Native American warrior-priest.

Questions remain about whether Locke is still the heart of the show. I would say no, Locke's lost that role to Hurley, who was thrust into more of the spiritual caretaker role when Locke went off on his vision quest. I think it started when Hurley started gaining confidence by:

1) Beating Sawyer at ping pong, embarrassing Sawyer and gaining some credibility among the group

2) Fixing up the car and lifting the spirits of the leadership

3) His sudden stroke of heroism at the end of Season 3 that literally turned the tables and put the survivors back in control for the moment

4) His actions driven by compassion, rather than desperation, for Charlie. Everyone else is acting on impulse. Hurley seems like the only one making human decisions, so he is now our ... intermediary? ... from our world to the Lost world.

The problem with this is Hurley is not a leader, not by a long shot, even though he is capable of some superior moments because of his unselfish and pure worldview. Hurley doesn't want to lead. So eventually they'll have to shift that role back to Locke, I think. No one else seems capable. Sayid is still too hard, Jack is too rational and rigid, Kate and Sawyer are too conflicted. Locke's the only one left who can capture "absolute truth" in a bottle and deliver it to the group.

So ... yes, I see Geronimo, or Cochise, or Crazy Horse. I see the writers transforming Locke into a native chief, chosen, to protect the land and its native people. As we all should know, life was never easy for those heroes, and it never ended well for them. All of those Native American heroes had two things going for them in spite of unfavorable odds: they're unwavering faith and their intimate knowledge of the land they defended. Sound familiar?

I see where you are going with this and enjoy reading your posts.

That being said, to me Hurley is more like Falstaff to Jack's Hamlet, while Locke is more in the Merlin mold (please excuse the mixed literary metaphors). However, I think that the writers are going for something deeper than similarities to historical/fictional characters, but that they are more interested in placing everyone into various Jungian archetypes, and then sorting out how these differing archetypes interact.

IMHO, the writers have crafted a cast of various subliminal archetypes (personally, I see Locke as a "Trickster", or to use your Native American analogy "Coyote") which is what gives the story such a "mythic" feel and is why the show is so much fun to watch.

Or perhaps it is just a story about a plane that crashes.

JTS

 

[ActingWild]

Lost - Solved

Granted, there's no definitive work here, so I wouldn't classify it as a spoiler exactly.

That being said, these guys have it figured out, it all fits together. So, if you want to be surprised by the finale, don't follow the link. If you're tired of trying to figure it out, then go on through the rabbit hole. (Personally, knowing what I do now after reading what they've posted, it would be fun to have this stuff revealed)

http://mirrormattermoon.blogspot.com/

 

[Gaddabout]

However, I think that the writers are going for something deeper than similarities to historical/fictional characters, but that they are more interested in placing everyone into various Jungian archetypes, and then sorting out how these differing archetypes interact.

Something deeper than Stephen King? (They've built in about 100 allusions to him and his work)

More than anything I remain convinced they want to tell old stories, the stories they grew up and fascinated them. They know when the borrow from the classic it's almost impossible to go wrong.

The only thing my creative writing professor ever said that I thought sounded like something a creative writing professor should say was this: "Never be afraid of relying on icons because your readers love the familiar and they will delude themselves into thinking you've created something new."

 

[Gaddabout]

Granted, there's no definitive work here, so I wouldn't classify it as a spoiler exactly.

That being said, these guys have it figured out, it all fits together. So, if you want to be surprised by the finale, don't follow the link. If you're tired of trying to figure it out, then go on through the rabbit hole. (Personally, knowing what I do now after reading what they've posted, it would be fun to have this stuff revealed)

http://mirrormattermoon.blogspot.com/

Ow ow ow ow ow ... my head is full and it hurts.

 

[Dback Jon]

I am afraid to look at that...

 

[Gaddabout]

I am afraid to look at that...

It's all quantum physics and stuff. I didn't have to look up a single word in the dictionary and I still have no idea what I read -- several times. It was like a Superman comic plot line, but written by Stephen Hawking.

 

[Bob Chebat]

http://mirrormattermoon.blogspot.com/

What is really amazing is that someone took the time to put that whole thing together. I think there is going to be a magic turtle in an upcoming episode! LOL

So, Ben told Sayid while they were captured something about trust, and he ends up working for him. At least some things are being tied together now, I think.

I like all theories Gadd, such as Geronimo and Locke. I have to say tht I am glad to not know the backgrounds of all the stories they appear to be borrowing from. The element of surprise is making the show more enjoyable,

 

[Jersey Girl]

Questions remain about whether Locke is still the heart of the show. I would say no, Locke's lost that role to Hurley, who was thrust into more of the spiritual caretaker role when Locke went off on his vision quest.

Not to mention that Hurley was let go by Ben when he, Jack, Kate and Sawyer were on the dock when Michael and Walt got to "leave" the island. Was that a calculated move by Ben? Who knows?

I am afraid to look at that...

Me, too.

I wish I could re-watch this episode. My DVR is jacked up and I missed the first five minutes.

 

[Gaddabout]

I have to say tht I am glad to not know the backgrounds of all the stories they appear to be borrowing from. The element of surprise is making the show more enjoyable,

I'm a writer, which requires me to be a reader, so I watch with unabashed admiration how they borrow from so many different stories and disciplines to churn out their mythology. It's impressive. Even more impressive when you consider how well-read they must be to grab the right elements from each story. It ranges from ancient mythology to theology to classic literature to scientific fields of study like archeology and physics. Some of it I had to really dig deep into research to figure out what they were borrowing from. There are so many "easter eggs" buried in every episode. There's a poster on a Lost message board who has a PhD in Egyptian history, and she blew a gasket in her praise of all the esoteric references in the episode when Locke sees all the images light up inside the hatch.

Part of the fun for me is guessing what they're borrowing from, though they usually tip their hat with the title of the episode. They even made a direct reference to Family Guy in one of them. That was a big "LOL" moment for me. They are unapologetic in their lifting of well-known themes and characters, but they do it in a way that they really are doing something new with it.

This is why I reassure people such as yourself who fear the writers have gone all Chris Carter on the mythology. Carter borrowed from myth and legend to tell stories (the part that made X-Files so compelling), but his own mythology was weakly based on common conspiracy theories that refuse to be tied together without conflicts; X-Files was doomed the moment Carter ran out of myths and legends to port into his universe. Cuse/Lindeloff borrow from stories that have a beginning, middle, and end. We can trust Lost has an intended direction and we will have catharsis.

 

[Gaddabout]

I wish I could re-watch this episode. My DVR is jacked up and I missed the first five minutes.

ABC streams all of those episodes in hi-def at their site. If your computer can handle Flash, you can watch that episode in quality possibly better than you watched on your TV.

 

[Bob Chebat]

Part of the fun for me is guessing what they're borrowing from, though they usually tip their hat with the title of the episode. They even made a direct reference to Family Guy in one of them. That was a big "LOL" moment for me. They are unapologetic in their lifting of well-known themes and characters, but they do it in a way that they really are doing something new with it.

That is another great thing about the show, how many different levels in which it can be enjoyed. I can spot Family Guy and South Oark either borrowing or taking shots at each other all the time. The (now two) references to the Red Sox championships in 2004 are pretty funny. It's hard to believe they won it AGAIN since then. They may reference the second championship in a flash forward with Jack.

I have never missed an episode of LOST (TiVo), you;ll have to clue me in on the Family Guy reference. I must say I did not catch that one!

 

[Gaddabout]

I have never missed an episode of LOST (TiVo), you;ll have to clue me in on the Family Guy reference. I must say I did not catch that one!

The news channel on Family Guy has Asian reporter Tricia Takanawa. The first big episode about Hurley was titled "Tricia Tanaka is Dead." In that episode, Tricia Tanaka was the uppity Asian female reporter who was incinerated (with the chicken shack) when the meteor (or asteroid if you prefer) hit. I believe it was a slightly veiled reference to the shameful Family Guy apocalyptic episode in which Brian and Peter catch the new anchors cannibalizing "Asian reporter Tricia Takanawa." Upon this discovery Peter says, "That's just crazy ... they're just going to be hungry in an hour."

 

[HoodieBets]

Whats sad is that im from rhode island where the setting for family guy takes place and people think quahog is an actual city. Without family guy people would still think rhode island is long island and apart of new york.

 

[Bob Chebat]

The news channel on Family Guy has Asian reporter Tricia Takanawa. The first big episode about Hurley was titled "Tricia Tanaka is Dead." In that episode, Tricia Tanaka was the uppity Asian female reporter who was incinerated (with the chicken shack) when the meteor (or asteroid if you prefer) hit. I believe it was a slightly veiled reference to the shameful Family Guy apocalyptic episode in which Brian and Peter catch the new anchors cannibalizing "Asian reporter Tricia Takanawa." Upon this discovery Peter says, "That's just crazy ... they're just going to be hungry in an hour."

Ok, now I remember. South Park and Family Guy amaze me with what they get away with, I love it! I should have been offended by th "McStroke" episode of Family Guy, but then again, they make fun of everything, so I couldn't help but laugh. Peter cracks me up!

 

[Jersey Girl]

Missed the first 10 minutes (thanks, Cox, you jerks!), but wow.

Hi Aaron? HI AARON? Wow. That blew me away. I thought for sure she was gonna say "James." (Of course, I guess that's what the writers wanted me to think. I am so guillable, lol.)

I was wondering how they would explain the age of the kid. Then I figured out two possibilities. One being that no one had seen Kate in a long time so no one would have known if she were pregnant or not. Two, and the better theory, is that there is obviously some sort of time switch/change thing on the island, so that could explain a lot.

I love this freaking show.