Love my Suns, but Diaw?

[nowagimp]

These Suns play no D, the only thing you can hope is they have good shooting nights because when they can't shoot collectively they usually get spanked. So I am not even arguing on Diaw's defensive effort because there is no defense for the Suns. Other than Hill and Bell, no one else really cares much about the D.

Well the 42% opposing FG% that the suns reeled off over a 12 game span be for the nugz back to back stands in stark contrast to your judgement. Why bother watching the team if you dont even know that after shaq was acclimated into the low post offense that the suns defense changed radically. I guess you dint watch those games.

 

[BC867]

the main problem, is that he simply always look for the pass first...

he'd be a heck of a play maker...

Actually a play maker who is not an aggressive scorer at all can be a liability to a team.

Just like cheating off an inbounds passer and covering the shooters 5-on-4.

Even a pass-first play maker has to be aggressive in all aspects of his offensive game.

Look at Jason Kidd. In his case, it wasn't a question of aggressiveness. He just never learned how to shoot consistently.

Even Magic Johnson with his shot-put 22-foot shot became even more all around. And more valuable to his team.

 

[jagu]

Well the 42% opposing FG% that the suns reeled off over a 12 game span be for the nugz back to back stands in stark contrast to your judgement. Why bother watching the team if you dont even know that after shaq was acclimated into the low post offense that the suns defense changed radically. I guess you dint watch those games.

All you do is attack other posters who make sense. If you watch Suns games, you could see they play no defense. I don't want to hear the lame field goal percentage excuse again because they give up 105.6 points per game! Maybe its you that doesn't watch the games and use statistics to explain things that you obviously can't see with your own eyes.

 

[elindholm]

Maybe its you that doesn't watch the games and use statistics to explain things that you obviously can't see with your own eyes.

Or maybe it's you after all.

The Suns' first-shot defense was respectable, even before adding O'Neal. With O'Neal it has generally been pretty good. 42% is 42%, no matter how many possession per game there are to drive up the raw scoring numbers.

What killed the Suns before the trade was defensive rebounding, where they were the worst team in the entire league. Holding the opponent to a low percentage is worthless if you let them keep shooting until they make it. With O'Neal, the Suns' defensive rebounding is often better, but they still tend to fall asleep for long stretches.

Numbers don't lie. The Suns are somewhere in the middle defensively.

 

[Covert Rain]

All you do is attack other posters who make sense. If you watch Suns games, you could see they play no defense. I don't want to hear the lame field goal percentage excuse again because they give up 105.6 points per game! Maybe its you that doesn't watch the games and use statistics to explain things that you obviously can't see with your own eyes.

On what planet is FG% lame? You don't get basketball if you think that. FG% has a direct correlation on how well teams can shoot against you. The Suns are very good in that department. Basically that means that teams are having to put up more shots just to reach that average. 42% since the All-Star break is only 2nd behind the Boston Celtics I believe.

So that basically means something else is wrong. Here it is, turnovers. Teams are getting an extra 15 to 20 extra shots per game on turnovers. Also, in most of those games the Suns had horrible defensive rebounding nights which meant again..extra shots. That's why teams even though shooting lousy percentage against the Suns have still manage to put up good numbers.

So defense isn't the Suns problem right now. It's turnovers which if fixable. If the Suns can eliminate the turnover problems which they have right now then the PPG average against us goes down. That's what happens when you trade for a player after the All-Star Break. A Starter at that who changes your system so much that players look confused on offense half the time. This team is still adjusting big time. My fear is that they are running out of time to put it together.

 

[mathbzh]

All you do is attack other posters who make sense. If you watch Suns games, you could see they play no defense. I don't want to hear the lame field goal percentage excuse again because they give up 105.6 points per game! Maybe its you that doesn't watch the games and use statistics to explain things that you obviously can't see with your own eyes.

So you think the number of points gived up is a better defensive indicator than the FG%? Regardless of the tempo of the game and of the number of fast break we play?

 

[dodie53]

the suns score and give up more points than the norm because of their run n gun play

 

[jagu]

FG percentage is lame, opposing teams have no problem scoring a 100 plus points on the Suns, and its the Suns high powered offense that usually bails them out. The thing to worry is how the Suns can play a team that can score just as well as them, and teams like the Lakers and Nuggets can stick around in these games. I didn't see the Suns stopping them on defense, so where did the FG percentage people go? I really don't think the Suns can stop a Nuggets or Lakers team on offense, they just have to score with them and hit a lot of threes. Turnovers burn us and I think a lot of our losses recently can be blamed on unnecessary turnovers.

 

[nowagimp]

FG percentage is lame, opposing teams have no problem scoring a 100 plus points on the Suns, and its the Suns high powered offense that usually bails them out. The thing to worry is how the Suns can play a team that can score just as well as them, and teams like the Lakers and Nuggets can stick around in these games. I didn't see the Suns stopping them on defense, so where did the FG percentage people go? I really don't think the Suns can stop a Nuggets or Lakers team on offense, they just have to score with them and hit a lot of threes. Turnovers burn us and I think a lot of our losses recently can be blamed on unnecessary turnovers.

So the celtics are lame, as they are the best opposing FG% team in the NBA. And the championship spurs are lame and popovich is a lame coach as the FG% is a critical factor in their defensive evaluations. The championship spurs always had one of the lowest opposing FG%. Start with some facts, they will show you the way jagu. Oh yeah, when shaq first came aboard, the suns allowed 52% FG's for the first 8 games(including the laker game), mainly due to TO's that were easily converted to fastbreak points at the other end. Did you miss that? Homework sucks, but if you dont do it you dont learn.

Oh yeah, I wouldnt eval the suns team play based on their play with the starting SF injured especially when they play a team that scores 50% of its points at the wing.

 

[jagu]

So the celtics are lame, as they are the best opposing FG% team in the NBA. And the championship spurs are lame and popovich is a lame coach as the FG% is a critical factor in their defensive evaluations. The championship spurs always had one of the lowest opposing FG%. Start with some facts, they will show you the way jagu. Oh yeah, when shaq first came aboard, the suns allowed 52% FG's for the first 8 games(including the laker game), mainly due to TO's that were easily converted to fastbreak points at the other end. Did you miss that? Homework sucks, but if you dont do it you dont learn.

Oh yeah, I wouldnt eval the suns team play based on their play with the starting SF injured especially when they play a team that scores 50% of its points at the wing.

FG percentage is a factor when you actually hold teams down. It's not a factor when you give up turnovers and when you can't really stop an opposing team from scoring. Sorry gimp I don't have the time to sit down and copy and learn FG% facts but I watch the Suns play and I know they don't play defense. They do play good D on some stretches but overall its lacking. Comparing the Suns D to the Pistons and Spurs D shows ignorance. Are you suggesting the Suns have as good defense as the Spurs now? All because of FG%? Suns are middle of the pack defensively and out of all the Western Conference playoff teams probably dead last unless the Warriors get in. I am not going to sit here and argue that the Suns don't stink defensively because they hold teams to a 42-44 percent field goal percentage and meanwhile give up 110-118 points on a lot of nights (other than the ones against the bad teams), thats just stupid.

Im just hoping that the turnovers stop and we get some consistency offensively and not have really bad quarters. Because when you give up 25-30 points a quarter and we cant afford too many bad quarters in a game. At the end of the game the Suns team can't look back and say "but we held them to a low percentage so its ok." I'm done with this FG percentage argument, its debatable but almost everyone knows the Suns don't play defense (other than Suns fans of course) and they run the other team down to the ground with their running, even with Shaq.

Basically we are getting away from the thread topic as Diaw throws up brick jumpers in a system where offense is vital and defense is on the back page. When Diaw comes in the game, there is no reason why he should be taking jumpers. There are better perimeter options than Diaw (Barbosa, GG) and if he isn't in a position where he can back down a defender to score in the low post he really should pass off the ball (looking of course if another defender is close by because he tends not to). Diaw chucking up threes is inexcusable. Might as well have Shaq shooting threes then.

 

[Covert Rain]

FG percentage is a factor when you actually hold teams down. It's not a factor when you give up turnovers and when you can't really stop an opposing team from scoring.

Your arguing a good point but not on the right topic. If you want to argue that turnovers negate good defense then OK. Your statement would then make sense. However, stopping an opposing team from scoring and giving them freebies a la turnover is a different thing. If the opposing FG% is low, your defense is doing it's job.

If your offense is giving up turnovers then that has no reflection on your defense. It's your offense giving teams the extra opportunities and extra shots which drives up opposing teams PPG.

Sorry gimp I don't have the time to sit down and copy and learn FG% facts but I watch the Suns play and I know they don't play defense.

I think that's the problem. Your confusing offensive turnovers and correlated that to bad defense. You couldn't be more wrong.