Luck staying in school

[clif]

Because he is not just thinking about money? Most kids have one thing on their mind(money), he didn't, he seems more like Peyton everyday who gave up being a #1 pick one year in order for a chance at a Heisman and Nat'l Championship and because he genuinely loved Knoxville & the college experience. Are you going to say Peyton wasn't "mature"? He was probably the most mature QB to come out of college football ever. I am thinking Luck is more similar to Manning then Leinart.

What does that have to do with maturity? Are you trying to tell me that a more mature decision is to stay in school as opposed to getting a job? Millions of people would disagree with you completely. Going to college does not in its self make you more mature or vice versa.

 

[john h]

Not sure why anyone here is excited about it - all it does is take another player off the draft board and remove a player from a position of need.

Unless you think the cards will be picking #1 overall in the next draft or that for some reason his stock will drop or he will be surpassed.

I agree with you. If we plan on drafting a QB (We sure should) then we have one less to chose from. I have finally concluded our best choice would be Cam Newton if he is there. There are still three other QBs from which we may have access to. I am an Arkansas homer and like Mallet but now think Newton has more upside due to his mobility. I do not think he is more accurate. Both come from pro style offenses and I think either would be glad to come to Arizona where they may actually contend for a starting position unless we sign a really good QB. Right now I think Vince Young and McNabb are the best available QBs out there. McNabb could cost a draft choice. I do not think Vince Young would cost a draft choice. In the QB race by around 5 teams looking for one the early bird will get the best one which is not a good sign for our organization as we move at the pace of a glacier.

I find it interesting in the many articles I have read in the past few days the writers talk in terms of what Whiz will do and not do as though he makes all these decisions himself. They never mention what Graves thinks. Do these writers know something we do not?

 

[Zeno]

What does that have to do with maturity? Are you trying to tell me that a more mature decision is to stay in school as opposed to getting a job? Millions of people would disagree with you completely. Going to college does not in it's self make you more mature.

Not to be totally motivated by money and basing your decision on what you think is best for you is more mature IMO. The guy is thinking beyond just tomorrow or next week, he knows that what he is living now can't be repeated and is confident enough in his ability to believe that the money will be there when he wants it.

If you are generalizing about a regular college kid leaving school and getting a job then yes I believe staying in school and finishing shows more maturity and dedication (caveat as long as it is for the right reasons not to stay in school to party or whatever--but to learn and better yourself).

 

[clif]

Not to be totally motivated by money and basing your decision on what you think is best for you is more mature IMO. The guy is thinking beyond just tomorrow or next week, he knows that what he is living now can't be repeated and is confident enough in his ability to believe that the money will be there when he wants it.

If you are generalizing about a regular college kid leaving school and getting a job then yes I believe staying in school and finishing shows more maturity and dedication (caveat as long as it is for the right reasons not to stay in school to party or whatever--but to learn and better yourself).

I still don't agree that maturity has anything to do with it. I think he made a decision that he felt comfortable with which is of course his choice, but I don't think him doing one over the other means he is more mature or less mature. Again I am not advocating for him to skip out on his education, I just don't buy that he is somehow more mature because he went back to school.

 

[Zeno]

I went back and read some articles on Manning from 97. He was projected to be the Jets #1 pick that year (they traded down with St Louis who selected Orlando Pace). Its funny nobody really questioned his decision at the time...even in New York--where they are notoriously bitter.

Peyton Manning 1997...

''I'm having an incredible experience as a student-athlete at Tennessee,'' Manning said. ''But if I'm good enough to play in the N.F.L., as many experts say I am, then I can only be better after one more season.''

I'm not trying to make a statement for other people that they should stay in college football. This is just something I wanted to do.

 

[Gaddabout]

Tell me how him going back to school is the more mature decision?

Edit: I don't see how one decision vs the other has anything to do with maturity.

It was a decision only a man could make. A boy runs for the money without considering anything. A man weighs his options and makes a decision that's best for him, disregarding what everyone else thinks he should do.

Do you think he's not smart enough to recognize how much money he's walking away from? He obviously knows what's at stake and yet he still made the decision to return to school. That takes guts and some self-awareness that can only come from a mature person.

 

[Pariah]

It was a decision only a man could make. A boy runs for the money without considering anything.

That doesn't mean a man can't make a different choice. I'm not immature for thinking he should have come out.

 

[slinslin]

I never understood the whole stay in school because he is high on education or wants to graduate stuff.

a) He could do that after his football career when he is rich anyway
b) He will likely never work in a regular job anyway after his football career

Staying in college reduces his professional football career by a year.

Maybe he just enjoys college life rather than working in a pro organization with many commitments and pressure.

Cam Newton is better than him anyway.

 

[tnmike]

You know you have become a man and capable of making your own decisions when you can say no to anyone and you realize that you don't have to explain it to anyone.

 

[Zeno]

Cam Newton is better than him anyway.

Maybe a better athlete but nowhere near the QB he is.

 

[slinslin]

It was a decision only a man could make. A boy runs for the money without considering anything. A man weighs his options and makes a decision that's best for him, disregarding what everyone else thinks he should do.

Do you think he's not smart enough to recognize how much money he's walking away from? He obviously knows what's at stake and yet he still made the decision to return to school. That takes guts and some self-awareness that can only come from a mature person.

It could also come from a plain stupid person or a person that is out of touch with reality.

I don't get your point at all that that decision is any kind of proof for maturity or anything either way. Just like it wouldn't be proof of immaturity if he declared.

 

[Pariah]

It was a decision only a man could make. A boy runs for the money without considering anything.

and, in fact, I disagree with the premise. A "boy" could also be comforted by the things he knows and by staying in school is not challenging himself but staying in his comfort zone. He knows he'll be near the top at his position in college, he could be afraid to fail in the NFL.

(note: I'm not saying this IS the case, but there ARE different ways to look at it beside "it's a decision only a man could make")

 

[slinslin]

and, in fact, I disagree with the premise. A "boy" could also be comforted by the things he knows and by staying in school is not challenging himself but staying in his comfort zone. He knows he'll be near the top at his position in college, he could be afraid to fail in the NFL.

(note: I'm not saying this IS the case, but there ARE different ways to look at it beside "it's a decision only a man could make")

Yep kind of like a regular student who finishes college and is afraid of working 40 hours a week in a company he doesn't know at that point.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

From all accounts I've read and heard, Harbaugh has built a powerhouse that will last for a few more years. Stanford will be another solid team again next season, and now with Luck returning, they have a legit shot at competing with Oregon for the Pac-10 title.

Secondly, were you joking about the Barkley thing?

Harbaugh has recruited well but in watching them 6-7 times this season the biggest advantage they had other then Luck was how well coached, physical, and disciplined they were. 90 percent of other coaches get 7-8 wins out of that roster, tops.

As for Barkely. I know your probably thinking about my Terrelle Pryor and Locker defense posts and think I have no clue what I'm talking about. I don't think those guys are very good QB's yet, but they have alot of ability. I wouldn't bet anything on them being good though. I have no clue just think they maybe good value in rounds 2-3.

I LOVE Cam Newton and think he is a better Quarterback then most do on this board, but I also know there is an enormous risk with him. The way I evaluate him is that his ceiling is so high, hes worth the risk if you feel like you can coach him up.

If you go look at previous posts, I have been on Andrew Luck since halfway through last year. Loved him then, and love him even more now.

Barkley? Same thing. Trust me on this. If he isn't #1 next year, its because Luck knocked him out of the top pick after another huge year and he will be #2, barring some team in that spot is set at QB.

Matt Barkley is the the ABSOLUTE truth. I have seen him play live 3 times and know alot about his mental makeup and ability. He is A rated across the board.

Just remember who told you first and it isn't Kiper or McShay

 

[slinslin]

Maybe a better athlete but nowhere near the QB he is.

Comp% is slightly in favor of Luck, YPA is clearly in favor of Newton, TD/INT ratio is in favor of Newton and oh well and if your QB can run it is part of the equation as well and that is clearly in favor of Newton by miles.

Even if he wasn't better than Luck it would definately not be "nowhere near the QB".

And even if Newton isn't better he has much more potential.

 

[Zeno]

Comp% is slightly in favor of Luck, YPA is clearly in favor of Newton, TD/INT ratio is in favor of Newton and oh well and if your QB can run it is part of the equation as well and that is clearly in favor of Newton by miles.

Even if he wasn't better than Luck it would definately not be "nowhere near the QB".

And even if Newton isn't better he has much more potential.

Luck has 2 seasons in major college football to Newtons 1. Has thrown around 650 passes to Newtons 250, runs a pro style offense (actually takes snaps from under center!) and has to go through reads and progressions as compared to the gimmicky offense Newton runs (1 read and run)...and just because I said Newton is more athletic doesn't mean Luck isn't athletic, he was his teams second leading rusher.

You have to look at more than just the flashy numbers and take them in as a whole. Luck, IMO, will be the next Peyton Manning(more mobile less arm) and be a starter from day one and be effective. Newton will be a project who will have to learn to read defenses, work through progressions and run a pro offense....doesn't mean he CAN'T do it just means he hasn't done it yet so it will be a learning curve.

There is a reason a lot of draft pundits consider Luck the best QB prospect in years.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Comp% is slightly in favor of Luck, YPA is clearly in favor of Newton, TD/INT ratio is in favor of Newton and oh well and if your QB can run it is part of the equation as well and that is clearly in favor of Newton by miles.

Even if he wasn't better than Luck it would definately not be "nowhere near the QB".

And even if Newton isn't better he has much more potential.

Sorry man I love Newton more then most but your completely alone on this and it isn't even a debate.

I'll cut you some slack because you don't live stateside but if I were you I would go back and watch every Luck game this season, and every Newton game this season and even with the year Newton had, its impossible to watch them both and think "Newtons going to be better in the NFL then Luck". Unless you think Newton is going to run for 150 yards a game in the NFL, it ain't happening.

 

[Gaddabout]

Luck is a right-handed Steve Young.

 

[Gaddabout]

Luck has 2 seasons in major college football to Newtons 1. Has thrown around 650 passes to Newtons 250, runs a pro style offense (actually takes snaps from under center!) and has to go through reads and progressions as compared to the gimmicky offense Newton runs (1 read and run)...and just because I said Newton is more athletic doesn't mean Luck isn't athletic, he was his teams second leading rusher.

You have to look at more than just the flashy numbers and take them in as a whole. Luck, IMO, will be the next Peyton Manning(more mobile less arm) and be a starter from day one and be effective. Newton will be a project who will have to learn to read defenses, work through progressions and run a pro offense....doesn't mean he CAN'T do it just means he hasn't done it yet so it will be a learning curve.

There is a reason a lot of draft pundits consider Luck the best QB prospect in years.

When you watch Luck in 2009 and Luck this year, you can see how quickly he progressed. Stanford's passing game was largely rolling out Luck on play action, and with Gerhart back there, you could always count on the weakside being frozen by the play action. Rolling Luck out meant he only had to account for half the field, and he threw a lot of high-percentage passes to the tight ends (and Stanford has had several solid college tight ends who could catch the ball).

In 2010, Luck was the featured component of that offense, even with Stanford's continued brutish running game. The running game provided forward motion while Luck made the plays and put the ball in the end zone. He was in COMMAND. I think that's the highest compliment you can pay a QB -- he really managed that offense to the point of peak efficiency. And that's why people want to throw away their entire draft for a chance to get him.

The thing about Newton is that offense sputtered against good defenses until they took the chains off Newton and let him create chaos. Within the system, he was not a very good passer. Alabama shut him down in the first half by turning him into a pocket passer. In the second half they let him roam out of the pocket and let him create chaos in space. Newton is one of the best I've ever seen improvising with the ball, and he will still burn you with the pass in that mode. You can't really defend that at the college level. At the NFL level, we should all know by now you HAVE to make plays within a balanced system if you want to win. It doesn't do any NFL offense any good if you can't have run and pass success out of your favorite looks. If every score and big play requires your QB to improvise, you will never achieve balance required to win on a regular basis. That's why Newton's not considered on Luck's level.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

This wouldn't have been the decision I made, but I am not sure how people can state this decision is moronic, immature, or any of the like.

Basically your projecting YOUR values on a kid like Luck. Maybe money isn't everything to him (believe me its not) and maybe he has supreme confidence in his ability (believe me he does).

Just because we live in America and the prevailing mindset here is to pursue the almighty dollar, doesn't mean its for everybody.

Maybe it does end up costing him tens of millions dollars. And maybe hes going to have more money then he could ever spend wheteher that happens or not and thats not a priority for him.

Maybe he sees that an owner like Richardson is pulling the purse strings back, with both coaching and personnel, and doesn't want to put his NFL future in the hands of a guy who isn't going to surround him with the necessary help.

Or maybe he looks at the Alex Smith/Aaron Rodgers dynamic and figures no matter what, he'll make the money to set him up for life with his 2nd and 3rd contract.

Who knows?

I would certainly look at it from a financial perspective, but I can't fault somebody for seeing it differently then me.

Good decisions are what got him to this point. Who are we to start second guessing we know better then he does at this point?

 

[Russ Smith]

That doesn't mean a man can't make a different choice. I'm not immature for thinking he should have come out.

No you're immature for entirely different reasons.

 

[Russ Smith]

Staying in college reduces his professional football career by a year.

I'm not sure it does, I heard Aikman talk about that once and he said that had Dallas not significantly improved early in his career "I would have lost years off my career from the pounding I took."

If you get into a bad team that's bad for a few years, and you're playing right away at QB, it can actually shorten your career from the beatings you take.

 

[mjb21aztd]

lol it would have been to much if the cardinals got the number one pick, only to have luck stayed in school. What does this do to cam newton will he fall out of the cardinals reach with luck staying?

 

[Russ Smith]

Harbaugh has recruited well but in watching them 6-7 times this season the biggest advantage they had other then Luck was how well coached, physical, and disciplined they were. 90 percent of other coaches get 7-8 wins out of that roster, tops.

As for Barkely. I know your probably thinking about my Terrelle Pryor and Locker defense posts and think I have no clue what I'm talking about. I don't think those guys are very good QB's yet, but they have alot of ability. I wouldn't bet anything on them being good though. I have no clue just think they maybe good value in rounds 2-3.

I LOVE Cam Newton and think he is a better Quarterback then most do on this board, but I also know there is an enormous risk with him. The way I evaluate him is that his ceiling is so high, hes worth the risk if you feel like you can coach him up.

If you go look at previous posts, I have been on Andrew Luck since halfway through last year. Loved him then, and love him even more now.

Barkley? Same thing. Trust me on this. If he isn't #1 next year, its because Luck knocked him out of the top pick after another huge year and he will be #2, barring some team in that spot is set at QB.

Matt Barkley is the the ABSOLUTE truth. I have seen him play live 3 times and know alot about his mental makeup and ability. He is A rated across the board.

Just remember who told you first and it isn't Kiper or McShay

I like Barkley too but I have to admit I do have some trepidation on him.

He's supposedly a workaholic, had a QB coach in HS etc. So there's the Marinovich fear with him, better coaching early but his peers caught up to him.

Then there's the "surfer dude" fear. I've mentioned it before I go fishing in Loreto every July(not 2011 though) and there's always a group of surfers that come down and then drive from Loreto to Magdalena Bay for a week of surfing. Matt Barkley has been in that group at least twice.

I recall seeing an interview with him last year where he said everyone thinks I'm this surfer dude from the OC but that's not me. I was disappointed he didn't have the guts to admit he does surf, he is from the OC, and who cares he is a good QB.

I like his talent, forces too many throws but so do most young QB's.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Re: Luck

So sick of hearing how "shocking" this news is...

All the signs were pointing toward this decision so it is most definitely NOT shocking at all.