Mahomes

[WildBB]

Your missing the point. 2 QB's in the past 30 years have been drafted at #13 or later in round 1 and become a franchise QB. I am not making this stuff up people. 2 times in 30 years...you want to bet on those odds? Better pick a top rated player at #13 and take a chance on a QB later in the draft...you might get a Brady, Wilson, Cousins, etc.

Wilson and Cousins are not franchise QB' s. They don't carry their teams. They aren't "the guy".
We need someone competent with an upside to become more than competent.

 

[TheCardFan]

Where is the link? I just went back through the thread looking for it & couldn't find one. Am I missing something?

In the other Mahomes thread.


http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position

 

[Jetstream Green]

Wilson and Cousins are not franchise QB' s. They don't carry their teams. They aren't "the guy".
We need someone competent with an upside to become more than competent.

Wilson has been carrying his team the best he can with the crappy OL he has, lack of a running game and mediocre WRs... now Cousins I agree, and he is no better than a Glennon in my opinion

 

[cardncubfan]

In the other Mahomes thread.


http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position

Okay, I'm not sure what your point is now. There are many franchise/starting QB's after pick 12. If you want to just limit it to between 12 & 32 I think that's being ludicrous. That's like saying no franchise /starting QB has ever been drafted #7 overall (with the exception of Leftwich) so don't ever pick a QB at #7 overall.

 

[kerouac9]

Your missing the point. 2 QB's in the past 30 years have been drafted at #13 or later in round 1 and become a franchise QB. I am not making this stuff up people. 2 times in 30 years...you want to bet on those odds? Better pick a top rated player at #13 and take a chance on a QB later in the draft...you might get a Brady, Wilson, Cousins, etc.

Romo? Warner?

If Wilson isn't a franchise QB, your definition is too narrow to be meaningful. You don't do yourself any favors with easily disproven overgeneralizations.

 

[HGC]

Wilson has been carrying his team the best he can with the crappy OL he has, lack of a running game and mediocre WRs... now Cousins I agree, and he is no better than a Glennon in my opinion

I'm going to go out on a limb and say if Cousins was our starter and locked in for 5 years we wouldn't be talking about a quarterback in the 1st round. Glennon sucks.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say if Cousins was our starter and locked in for 5 years we wouldn't be talking about a quarterback in the 1st round. Glennon sucks.

Not until next season, at least. Cousins isn't taking a team anywhere but 9-7 purgatory.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Russell Wilson was taken in the 3rd round.

How many QB's in the last 10 years have been drafted from picks 13-32 in Round 1 and went on to be franchise QB's?

I believe the answer is zero.

You would have to go back to:

2005 - Aaron Rodgers
1987 - Jim Harbaugh

The stats don't lie. In a draft like this (no clear cut #1 or #1-6), you are better off taking a QB after rd 1.

And Russell Wilson wouldve been a top five pick if everyone was sure he was going to be this good.

 

[HGC]

Not until next season, at least. Cousins isn't taking a team anywhere but 9-7 purgatory.

That team. He's been pretty good with a crap running game, serviceable receivers and a tight end that can't stay on the field.

 

[TheCardFan]

And Russell Wilson wouldve been a top five pick if everyone was sure he was going to be this good.

Ha...what about Tom Brady? Of course they would have been higher picks if there was such things as fortune tellers or time machines. The point is they were not drafted in round 1 and are still pretty dang good QB's.

 

[TheCardFan]

Romo? Warner?

If Wilson isn't a franchise QB, your definition is too narrow to be meaningful. You don't do yourself any favors with easily disproven overgeneralizations.

Point taken but your also missing the point.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not until next season, at least. Cousins isn't taking a team anywhere but 9-7 purgatory.

Eh... I probably would had said the same thing about Carson before he put up a 10-6, 6-0, 13-3 season when he came here.

You don't think there's a chance Cousins can do the same? I'd prob lean towards no, but Carson's first three years here make me hedge a little.

 

[TheCardFan]

Okay, I'm not sure what your point is now. There are many franchise/starting QB's after pick 12. If you want to just limit it to between 12 & 32 I think that's being ludicrous. That's like saying no franchise /starting QB has ever been drafted #7 overall (with the exception of Leftwich) so don't ever pick a QB at #7 overall.

I will say it again. When you don't have a clear cut #1 franchise QB...the other QB's get over drafted. You can clearly see the lack of results over the past 30 years in drafting QB's in the lower 2/3 of round 1 (pick 11, 12, or 13 -32). Lots of misses between 2-13 as well but we are drafting 13 and the likelihood of bucking that trend is very very low (2 players in the last 30 years).

Remember...I am just looking at the history and providing the facts. Feel free to prove them wrong but haven't seen anything yet.

 

[oaken1]

a dude on the suns scored 70..... that NEVER happens.........

but it did.

 

[WildBB]

Wilson has been carrying his team the best he can with the crappy OL he has, lack of a running game and mediocre WRs... now Cousins I agree, and he is no better than a Glennon in my opinion

Baldwin is an underrated reciever. He also has an elite TE. Wilson is decent, but when they won it that year it was the D overall with an assist from beast mode.
Wilson will help you get there. Can he carry a team? Highly doubtful. We made him look much worse than say Brees last season. Put Brees on Seattle...good night NFL...it's over. Maybe they make that trade this year...

 

[Jetstream Green]

Baldwin is an underrated reciever. He also has an elite TE. Wilson is decent, but when they won it that year it was the D overall with an assist from beast mode.
Wilson will help you get there. Can he carry a team? Highly doubtful. We made him look much worse than say Brees last season. Put Brees on Seattle...good night NFL...it's over. Maybe they make that trade this year...

OL is bad, they could give some our OLs from the past a run for their money or rather lack of money

 

[kerouac9]

Baldwin is an underrated reciever. He also has an elite TE. Wilson is decent, but when they won it that year it was the D overall with an assist from beast mode.
Wilson will help you get there. Can he carry a team? Highly doubtful. We made him look much worse than say Brees last season. Put Brees on Seattle...good night NFL...it's over. Maybe they make that trade this year...

Nope. Brees would get demolished by that terrible Oline.

Brees has an argument that he's the GOAT when all is said and done. You can be a franchise, elite QB and still not be as good as Drew Brees. (Who had his own question marks about arm strength coming into the draft proces...)

 

[MadCardDisease]

Michael Bidwill was on XM Radio last night and they asked him about the QB position.

Bidwill basically said if there was a QB in the draft who they really liked they would draft him but they wouldn't reach. He said that the Cardinals have proved that you don't need to draft a franchise QB to be successful. He referenced Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer as examples of ways the Cardinals have been successful in that aspect.

I don't see the Cardinals drafting a QB at #13 this year as I'm not sure that there is a QB who they are in love with. If there is one that falls to them outside of round 1 who intrigues them then they might pull the trigger.

 

[Stout]

Michael Bidwill was on XM Radio last night and they asked him about the QB position.

Bidwill basically said if there was a QB in the draft who they really liked they would draft him but they wouldn't reach. He said that the Cardinals have proved that you don't need to draft a franchise QB to be successful. He referenced Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer as examples of ways the Cardinals have been successful in that aspect.

I don't see the Cardinals drafting a QB at #13 this year as I'm not sure that there is a QB who they are in love with. If there is one that falls to them outside of round 1 who intrigues them then they might pull the trigger.

This is a weird draft for me. Normally I'd have picked a QB I wanted us to draft (a la Big Ben) and harass the board about it. This year...I dunno. I don't pay nearly as much attention to the draft and draft prospects as I used to, and this is a wonky year for QBs. I'm falling into a 'If the Cards take one at 13, I'll be happy with it; if not, I'll support the decision' camp.

 

[Cardiac]

Russell Wilson was taken in the 3rd round.

How many QB's in the last 10 years have been drafted from picks 13-32 in Round 1 and went on to be franchise QB's?

I believe the answer is zero.

You would have to go back to:

2005 - Aaron Rodgers
1987 - Jim Harbaugh

The stats don't lie. In a draft like this (no clear cut #1 or #1-6), you are better off taking a QB after rd 1.

Flacco would be another one. Andy Dalton is a maybe or was he a 2nd rounder?

Now name all the great QB's in recent history drafted after round 1.

Wilson and................

So you are better off not drafting a QB after the 1st round.

 

[DVontel]

I will flip s*** if we take Webb at any point of the draft.

 

[TheCardFan]

Flacco would be another one. Andy Dalton is a maybe or was he a 2nd rounder?

Now name all the great QB's in recent history drafted after round 1.

Wilson and................

So you are better off not drafting a QB after the 1st round.

Good catch on Flacco....thank you. So, that is 3 in 30 years but there may be some people who argue if Flacco and Harbaugh would be in that category. Rodgers definitely is.

Here are some names of QB's drafted after round 1 in recent years:

Prescott (4), Siemian (7), Carr (2), Garoppolo (2), Glennon (3), Wilson (3), Cousins (4), and Dalton (2). Those are 8 starters or potential starters right now in the past 6 years. Not including Osweiller, who was a starter and may be again this year.

Compare that to the list of 1st rounders who are starters/potential starters in the same time frame (last 6 years) selected where we are picking or later in round 1: Paxton Lynch (26) and Bridgewater (32).

Unless there are 1-2 clear cut franchise type guys (those guys are taken in the top 3 in nearly every draft, the data states it is not wise to take a QB in the mid to late stages of round 1.

 

[Cardiac]

Good catch on Flacco....thank you. So, that is 3 in 30 years but there may be some people who argue if Flacco and Harbaugh would be in that category. Rodgers definitely is.

Here are some names of QB's drafted after round 1 in recent years:

Prescott (4), Siemian (7), Carr (2), Garoppolo (2), Glennon (3), Wilson (3), Cousins (4), and Dalton (2). Those are 8 starters or potential starters right now in the past 6 years. Not including Osweiller, who was a starter and may be again this year.

Compare that to the list of 1st rounders who are starters/potential starters in the same time frame (last 6 years) selected where we are picking or later in round 1: Paxton Lynch (26) and Bridgewater (32).

Unless there are 1-2 clear cut franchise type guys (those guys are taken in the top 3 in nearly every draft, the data states it is not wise to take a QB in the mid to late stages of round 1.

There was a fantastic post about this topic and I forget who the author was. He had statistics showing the likelihood of getting to the SB if you draft a QB outside of the top 5 (IIRC) picks in the first rd. Every week someone hits on the lottery but the vast majority of us don't.

It feels like we are saying pretty much the same thing.

 

[HGC]

I will flip s*** if we take Webb at any point of the draft.

I don't understand the hype for him. Sure he's big and has a strong arm but that's where it seems to end. If they go developmental I'd prefer Dobbs or Kaaya.

 

[overseascardfan]

Michael Bidwill was on XM Radio last night and they asked him about the QB position.

Bidwill basically said if there was a QB in the draft who they really liked they would draft him but they wouldn't reach. He said that the Cardinals have proved that you don't need to draft a franchise QB to be successful. He referenced Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer as examples of ways the Cardinals have been successful in that aspect.

I don't see the Cardinals drafting a QB at #13 this year as I'm not sure that there is a QB who they are in love with. If there is one that falls to them outside of round 1 who intrigues them then they might pull the trigger.

That is the feeling I am getting. Radio guys have been saying last few days that ARZ is not going QB at #13. But again that's not to say they won't if they trade down.