Marcin Gortat

[edukator1]

I am not a huge Gortat fan but he is pretty damn good and can play on my team any day.

We have far more problems to deal with than Marcin.

We have TOO MANY problems and like you said Marcin trade is our least...

 

[slinslin]

We should absolutely trade Marcin Gortat, imo.

Why?

He is the only one who could bring us back valueable rebuilding pieces. His value will not get higher as he is 28 and his conctract is going to be up soon and he is not as good as he is looks for this poopy team where he can generate 80% of his offensive output off of pick and rolls and assists.

Keeping Steve Nash from an emotional standpoint and because teams won't give up anything for him, fine. Let him retire here if he wants. Keeping Gortat makes no sense. He will be in his 30s and on a huge contract before we can hope to be a good team again.

 

[jagu]

We should absolutely trade Marcin Gortat, imo.

Why?

He is the only one who could bring us back valueable rebuilding pieces. His value will not get higher as he is 28 and his conctract is going to be up soon and he is not as good as he is looks for this poopy team where he can generate 80% of his offensive output off of pick and rolls and assists.

Keeping Steve Nash from an emotional standpoint and because teams won't give up anything for him, fine. Let him retire here if he wants. Keeping Gortat makes no sense. He will be in his 30s and on a huge contract before we can hope to be a good team again.

We'll never again see a true center for the next decade or more. For someone who posts a lot of stats, you don't know jack about basketball.

 

[Covert Rain]

None of the stats you posted mean anything. Pekovic is a 2nd year plazer and did not get minutes at the beginning of the season like he gets now so your volume stats are a farce. Since he is starting he produces basically the same numbers as Gortat in less minutes, on a better team, on less assisted baskets.

CREATED = [PTS - (PTS * %AST)] + (2 * AST)

If you compute the stats like this, Gortat is dead last on the team in creating point for himself or teammates.

Talk about stats meaning nothing. You still never touch on the fact That Gortat is told to play the role he is playing. He is not our go to guy nor is he asked to post up every time down the court. Pekovic wouldn't be doing it here on this team either.

We should absolutely trade Marcin Gortat, imo.

Why?

He is the only one who could bring us back valueable rebuilding pieces. His value will not get higher as he is 28 and his conctract is going to be up soon and he is not as good as he is looks for this poopy team where he can generate 80% of his offensive output off of pick and rolls and assists.

Keeping Steve Nash from an emotional standpoint and because teams won't give up anything for him, fine. Let him retire here if he wants. Keeping Gortat makes no sense. He will be in his 30s and on a huge contract before we can hope to be a good team again.

The team has already come out and said they are not rebuilding. They are retooling. So, your point doesn't make sense. If the team was going to truly rebuild anyway, you don't throw away something that historically has been difficult to get....a center.

Also...again....your he gets 80% of his points off of pick and rolls is pure B.S. Repeating it doesn't make it true.

Last but not least....last time I checked a person can still be in his prime will into his 30's. WTF are you talking about?

 

[AzStevenCal]

We should absolutely trade Marcin Gortat, imo.

Why?

He is the only one who could bring us back valueable rebuilding pieces. His value will not get higher as he is 28 and his conctract is going to be up soon and he is not as good as he is looks for this poopy team where he can generate 80% of his offensive output off of pick and rolls and assists.

Keeping Steve Nash from an emotional standpoint and because teams won't give up anything for him, fine. Let him retire here if he wants. Keeping Gortat makes no sense. He will be in his 30s and on a huge contract before we can hope to be a good team again.

Your "trade Gortat" comments would make a lot more sense if your trade scenarios returned something of real value to us.

I really like Gortat. He approaches the game the right way, he's a great teammate, he's very coachable and he's an above average center who's just coming into his own. His style of play and his lack of wear and tear suggests he probably has at least 7 or 8 more years at this level or above. Add that up and factor in that he plays a position that carries a premium over all other positions and I see no reason to just give him away.

You don't move a guy like that unless you're given a deal that's just too good to pass up. I think there's a reasonable chance that we might actually find a deal like that for Gortat and if so, great, but until then I'll continue to enjoy one of the few good things about this team.

Steve

 

[JustWinBaby]

Your "trade Gortat" comments would make a lot more sense if your trade scenarios returned something of real value to us.

I really like Gortat. He approaches the game the right way, he's a great teammate, he's very coachable and he's an above average center who's just coming into his own. His style of play and his lack of wear and tear suggests he probably has at least 7 or 8 more years at this level or above. Add that up and factor in that he plays a position that carries a premium over all other positions and I see no reason to just give him away.

You don't move a guy like that unless you're given a deal that's just too good to pass up. I think there's a reasonable chance that we might actually find a deal like that for Gortat and if so, great, but until then I'll continue to enjoy one of the few good things about this team.

Steve

Hard to argue with that position.

Maybe it makes too much sense.

 

[Covert Rain]

Your "trade Gortat" comments would make a lot more sense if your trade scenarios returned something of real value to us.

I really like Gortat. He approaches the game the right way, he's a great teammate, he's very coachable and he's an above average center who's just coming into his own. His style of play and his lack of wear and tear suggests he probably has at least 7 or 8 more years at this level or above. Add that up and factor in that he plays a position that carries a premium over all other positions and I see no reason to just give him away.

You don't move a guy like that unless you're given a deal that's just too good to pass up. I think there's a reasonable chance that we might actually find a deal like that for Gortat and if so, great, but until then I'll continue to enjoy one of the few good things about this team.

Steve

Steve...all great points. Nobody has said Gortat is untradeable. If someone was dumb enough to give us the 1st or 2nd pick and we could get the next <fill in superstar franchise player here>....it's a no brainer. Nobody is saying Gortat is the best center in the league either. The deal just has to be a very very good one to give up on all the things he brings to the team.

 

[jagu]

I agree, give me back a #1 for Gortat I'll do it. Other than that why would you trade away a young center for crappy draft picks or rejects who have high contracts. He's just coming into his own and getting used to being a starter so I expect better things once he adjusts and he is a quick learner.

My favorite Sun after Nash is Gortat. Lock him up for a long time Suns.. you won't regret it.

 

[slinslin]

Btw Marcin Gortat can and definitely will opt out after next year forcing the Suns to give him a massive deal at the age of 30 to keep him

hoopshype is an awfully inaccurate source for salaries.

Both
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/suns.jsp
and
http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/Phoenix.htm

Two of the most accurate and up-to-date sites show Marcin Gortat having an ETO for 2013-2014.

 

[slinslin]

The team has already come out and said they are not rebuilding. They are retooling. So, your point doesn't make sense. If the team was going to truly rebuild anyway, you don't throw away something that historically has been difficult to get....a center.

Also...again....your he gets 80% of his points off of pick and rolls is pure B.S. Repeating it doesn't make it true.

Last but not least....last time I checked a person can still be in his prime will into his 30's. WTF are you talking about?

Uh please, even Lon Babby has come out several times now and called this a rebuilding process.

Good lord what don't you understand, the numbers about Gortats production coming off pick and rolls is not made up. Go and sign up for synergy sports they log everything.

Gortat finishes 5 times more pick and roll plays than pretty much any other center.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[sunsfan88]

Slinslin when Amare played for the Suns, most of his production came from the pick & rolls as well so that must mean that he sucks without Nash too right?

WRONG!

23.5 ppg in his first season without Nash.

 

[Covert Rain]

Uh please, even Lon Babby has come out several times now and called this a rebuilding process.

He has called it a rebuilding process but this is not rebuilding. Rebuilding is blowing it up. This is retooling when you are building your team still around a 40 year old PG and you know it. Babby has said alot of things and used both words almost interchangeably.

Blowing up the team is not the direction the Suns want to go. They look at a franchise such as Chicago. The Bulls won six NBA titles -- 1991-93 and 1996-98 -- then posted losing records and missed the playoffs six consecutive seasons. The team didn't return to the conference finals for 13 years. "Bottom line: There is no tried-and-true formula," Babby said.

On Feb 1st interview on the Radio Babby compared the Suns situation to the freaking NY Giants. He said that the Giants were 7-7 and everyone was calling for changing for the Giants, TC head and things looking bad. He said and I quote "There is lesson here for staying for being patient and staying the course".

"Even look at Boston or Los Angeles; they had to get really bad in order to get better. We don't want to do that. We really think there is a way to do that while still remaining very competitive and retooling on the fly."

"We don't think we're in a market where the right way to go is to get really bad in order to get better. We're going to do everything we can to continue to be very, very competitive and add the pieces that we can"

Good lord what don't you understand, the numbers about Gortats production coming off pick and rolls is not made up. Go and sign up for synergy sports they log everything.

Gortat finishes 5 times more pick and roll plays than pretty much any other center.

LOL. I understand just fine. I understand that your changing your story. What happen to the 80% of his shots come from the pick and roll with Nash? Where does it say that Gortat is just a pick and roll player? I pulled up that site just fine.

Here is what it also says:

65% of his shots don't come from the pick and roll. Which is exactly what I have been saying and means most of his shots are not from the pick and roll. The percentage of shots where he posts up or cuts to the basket to score is 39% versus the pick and roll at 35.1%.

You keep acting like 3.5 out of every 10 shots proves your point. I would say 6.5 out of every 10 shots shots he takes not being on the pick and roll says your full of it.

You know what those stats really prove Slin? It proves that if Gortat gets the most pick and rolls in the NBA and it only accounts for 3.5 out of every 10 shots......NO player in the NBA today gets most of his points off the pick and roll. It's a fallacy and gross over-exaggeration on your part.

Let's recap.

• 65% not from the pick and roll
• 55% of his shots resulting in jump shots according to 82 games.
• Gortat is not a go to option (post up every lay kind of guy)
• Is not assisted by Nash the majority of his points per game as you claim.

Yep....I think that sums it up.

 

[slinslin]

• 65% not from the pick and roll
• 55% of his shots resulting in jump shots according to 82 games.
• Gortat is not a go to option (post up every lay kind of guy)
• Is not assisted by Nash the majority of his points per game as you claim.

Yep....I think that sums it up.

80% assisted is not the majority? lol

35% of his total offense are finishing pick and rolls as the roll man and he shoots like 65% in those plays. Now take into account that post ups and isolations make up for a combined 20% of his total plays only that leaves the rest to jumpshots, many of which are the results of pick and roll plays or pick and pop plays with Nash. Take into account that he is shooting just 42% on jumpshots and postup situations and you can figure out yourself that the vast majority of his offensive production is a result of the pick and roll play with Nash.

58 of 130 field goals me made were just from being the guy rolling to the basket for the easy finish. That alone is almost 50% of his offensive production.

 

[sunsfan88]

Who the hell told you that rolling to the basket is "easy"?

If its so easy, why doesnt every team in the NBA have their bigs just do that? Or wait is Steve Nash the only player who knows how to run a pick & roll?

And its not Gortat's fault that the offense is designed around pick & rolls. Even when Amare was here, alot of Amare's points was assisted or whatever too.

Damn bro just to throw this question out there to anyone that can answer it, do Germans hate Polish people?

 

[Magnus]

Slinslin, what's your point? Noone argues that he is the best center out there, but for what he does, he is a great fit for this team. Yes, most of his points come off pick n rolls, but that's how this offense works. Do you suggest other centers would do better if paired up with Nash? Not many of them would.

 

[Covert Rain]

80% assisted is not the majority? lol

35% of his total offense are finishing pick and rolls as the roll man and he shoots like 65% in those plays. Now take into account that post ups and isolations make up for a combined 20% of his total plays only that leaves the rest to jumpshots, many of which are the results of pick and roll plays or pick and pop plays with Nash. Take into account that he is shooting just 42% on jumpshots and postup situations and you can figure out yourself that the vast majority of his offensive production is a result of the pick and roll play with Nash.

58 of 130 field goals me made were just from being the guy rolling to the basket for the easy finish. That alone is almost 50% of his offensive production.

You flip flop worse than a politician. First your complaint is that he is assisted on 80% of his shots by Nash. After that it was that he had no other game but pick and roll and that was also 80% of his offense. After that Gortat isn't that great of a defender despite having a better defensive efficiency rating versus the guy you were trying to tout as better. Then it was he has not scored 30. Then there is other ridiculous crap like Lopez would be just as good given the time that Gortat has...blah blah....the list is enormous.

What is next? He jumps off his right foot more than his left?

Let's be clear because you keep changing what you are saying.

Your first point. Gortat is assisted on 80% of his shots
Is he assisted on 80% of his shots? Yes. That is his role. He is not a post up, give it to him every time type of player. That is his role. If it was Gortat's job to post up every time and still was assisted 80% of the time you might have a point. You don't.

Your second point. Gortat is assisted by Nash for 80% of his offense
I have already refuted most of his production comes from Nash....your are ignoring that. Nash only averages 11 per game and assist other players during the course of the game. Do the math. The "majority" can't possibly come from Nash.

Fry assisted 77%
Hill Assisted 69%
Dudley assisted 74%
Morris assisted 72%

How are they any different from Gortat? That is a high percentage. What makes Nash's assists magically go to only Gortat so that the majority of his points from Nash and not Nash assisting the others above?

Your third point. Gortat's entire game was pick and roll from Nash.
False. Even your stats prove that.

Your forth point. Gortat has not scored 30.
Considering how many times he has been over 20 and does not play a post up every play type role. Pretty damn good.

Now you bring in the conversation "pick and pop". Seriously??
He still makes over 55% of his shots. He gets passes from several team mates and nails a large percentage. Players who pass you the ball can't help you shoot. When Lopez does play he makes approximately 44% of his jump shots. If a pass from Nash or any other team mate matters...why does Lopez shoot for a worse percentage? Who passes to you means NOTHING if you can't shoot.

Other point. Gortat is not that good Defensively
Since the trade last year has been one of the most efficient defenders at his position. He is more efficient defensively than most centers in the NBA and has managed to single handedly put the Suns on the map at the center position defensively. When it was just Lopez we were bottom feeders.

Intangibles
He has put the Suns on the map from the center position. The Suns have skyrocketed in many Center categories since the Gortat trade. When Lopez was our starting Center we were bottom feeders in too many categories to count. Gortat individually is up there with some of the best centers in the NBA in certain categories.

Seriously.....your posts are pathetic when it comes to Gortat.

 

[BC867]

Seriously.....your posts are pathetic when it comes to Gortat.

slinslin reminds me of that old saying, "Don't bother me with facts, my mind is made up."

Some people get attention by doing or saying outrageous things.

My older son will bring up a topic, hear my opinion, then take the opposing side whether he believes it or not. Just for the thrill of the debate.

He'd give you the shirt off his back. I love him dearly. But I have learned to not take him seriously when goes he goes into that mode.

I guess you could call people who do that master-debators.

 

[AzStevenCal]

slinslin reminds me of that old saying, "Don't bother me with facts, my mind is made up."

Some people get attention by doing or saying outrageous things.

My older son will bring up a topic, hear my opinion, then take the opposing side whether he believes it or not. Just for the thrill of the debate.

He'd give you the shirt off his back. I love him dearly. But I have learned to not take him seriously when goes he goes into that mode.

I guess you could call people who do that master-debators.

He could just be playing the odds.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

One of the reasons I've never liked Nash is that his assists come about because other players make shots. He really should only get credit for those assists where no one else is involved. Not only that but his rebound numbers aren't very impressive and his boards always seem to come on missed shots. Plus, the guy has never scored 50 points in a game either despite the fact the ball is often in his hands. He's very overrated.

Steve

 

[BC867]

One of the reasons I've never liked Nash is that his assists come about because other players make shots. He really should only get credit for those assists where no one else is involved. Not only that but his rebound numbers aren't very impressive and his boards always seem to come on missed shots. Plus, the guy has never scored 50 points in a game either despite the fact the ball is often in his hands. He's very overrated

LOL

He could just be playing the odds.

I thought that at first . . . until I heard him take the other side when "discussing" it with someone else.

Then especially when he finally told me that he's never believed (what he told me). We had been discussing politics that time. Something about which a person doesn't change long-held beliefs from conversation to conversation.

 

[jandaman]

I think a package of...

- Gortat
- Markieff Morris
- Suns 2014 Top 5 protected


Might be an acceptable deal for this year's 2012 No.1 overall pick...

Assuming the following teams get No.1
- Wizards
- Raptors
- Pistons


Or am I too optimistic?

 

[Griffin]

I think a package of...

- Gortat
- Markieff Morris
- Suns 2014 Top 5 protected


Might be an acceptable deal for this year's 2012 No.1 overall pick...

Assuming the following teams get No.1
- Wizards
- Raptors
- Pistons


Or am I too optimistic?

I think you are extremely too optimistic. Not many examples of teams trading away #1 pick, but back in 1993 Golden State traded three future first round picks just to move up from #2 to #1 for a player (Webber) that Orlando didn't really want or need.

 

[mojorizen7]

He has called it a rebuilding process but this is not rebuilding. Rebuilding is blowing it up. This is retooling when you are building your team still around a 40 year old PG and you know it.

There is no argument against this. None.

I know there a couple fans here that are adept at splitting hairs...but if the Suns were rebuilding we wouldn't be witnessing a team who's TWO best players are in the twilight of their careers. Spin it all you want,an objective view based in reality knows better than that.

 

[mojorizen7]

I think a package of...

- Gortat
- Markieff Morris
- Suns 2014 Top 5 protected


Might be an acceptable deal for this year's 2012 No.1 overall pick...

Assuming the following teams get No.1
- Wizards
- Raptors
- Pistons


Or am I too optimistic?

Jandaman...why? Who's the consensus #1 pick? I'll be honest...i dont know.
Look, i'm all for tanking but if i see an ESPN tracker showing the Suns traded Gortat,a promising young forward and a future pick WITHOUT involving Nashy or Over the Grant Hill i'm gonna blow a gasket.

 

[Covert Rain]

One of the reasons I've never liked Nash is that his assists come about because other players make shots. He really should only get credit for those assists where no one else is involved. Not only that but his rebound numbers aren't very impressive and his boards always seem to come on missed shots. Plus, the guy has never scored 50 points in a game either despite the fact the ball is often in his hands. He's very overrated.

Steve

Again...if you understood Slinslins advanced stats you would realize that Nash can hypnotize players to make shots, wills other players to rebound better (sometimes is just plain too polite to rebound over team mates and lets them have them too), his lack of 50 point games is because he is too helpful to other members of the team and specifically is so good a making sure that he only assists players named Gortat out of pure kindness...you would change your tune.

Overrated or too damn nice???