Marion to Utah?

[panfolk]

If the Suns do this trade, I want Millsap. We need a back up big who could actually play. The Jazz also may have wanted Banks (they wanted a back up point). So Marion, Banks, Pike for Kirilenko, Giricek, Millsap. It also helps us save on some of the back end of Kirilenko's contract by dumping Banks. Plus it saves us 3 million dollars this season, plus the luxury tax, which means it saves 6 million dollars.

Swap Giricek for Harpring and I'm sold. With Bell and Barbosa we don't need Giricek, but Harpring could be behind Hill on the depth charts as Tucker is still unproven. We'd still need a backup point.

Nash/Strawberry
Bell/Barbosa
Hill/Harpring/Tucker
AK/Diaw
Amare/Millsap/Marks

 

[dodie53]

ak and millsap
for
marion and banks

 

[slinslin]

Don't be surprised to see this catching lot of steam after the euro tournament.

Russia is 1 minute away from beating Lithuania to get to the finals against Spain and Kirilenko has ~30 points. He has played very well in the tournament.

And it wouldn't be overrating him to say that he is anchoring the russians defense.

29 points 8 rebounds 3 steals 4 blocks for AK47 I think.

 

[Cheesebeef]

man, I would be really nervous if we did this deal. Although I think AK is a better defender, I do think he's just as mentally soft as Marion, not to mention definitely more injury prone. But if we were able to get Milsap or Brewer and able to unload Banks somehow and Marion was really becoming that much of an issue in the lockerroom, it seems like it might be a deal we could make and possibly prosper with.

So that would make us, what?

Nash
Bell
Hill
Kirlineko
Amare

Leo
Diaw
Milsap

Interesting - also, probably some minutes here and there from the rooks? It probably also means no PJ, right? Man, I don't know.

Why the hell won't PJ Brown just sign with us and give us the monster unstobbale team that we should be already!

 

[AsUdUdE]

i think this is a very good deal for us considering marion in all likelyhood is OUT-A-HERE, next year...

Why not bring in a potential top 15-20 player in the league who is younger and plays better defense (most of the time) that Marion....

that said i honestly think this deal has about a 2-5% chance of happending... this late in the offseason, doesn't seem to make much sense, IMO.....

maybe towards the trade deadline... but not before the season if at all....

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

barbosa, diaw, pj, milsap, tucker, potapenko, marks, strawberry is a great bench

AND

getting rid of banks would make this a successful summer imo

 

[Cheesebeef]

i think this is a very good deal for us considering marion in all likelyhood is OUT-A-HERE, next year...

Why not bring in a potential top 15-20 player in the league who is younger and plays better defense (most of the time) that Marion....

that said i honestly think this deal has about a 2-5% chance of happending... this late in the offseason, doesn't seem to make much sense, IMO.....

maybe towards the trade deadline... but not before the season if at all....

i don't know - there are blockbuster deals that do happen right before the season - the Dice deal sending him from Denver to Phoenix happened in October back in the day... and there's a couple of others that I can't remember.

but yeah, my guess is this doesn't happen.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

From realgm boards
http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=710317&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=48

You guys can believe me or not believe me, but Marion is being talked about SERIOUSLY. The last three days in the office have been hectic to say the least. Between him and Banks...they are all the rage right now. No one likes cancer in the locker room and both are considered cancers by the coaching staff. Marion has almost worn out his welcome completely...Banks, never really was welcome.

He goes on to say how he lives in thousand oaks but his parents have connections to the suns brass

and he predicts some other things while explaining that he hasnt been online keeping up with rumors so its all new news to him

I haven't logged in to RealGM for a few weeks...go ahead and check with the admins around here if you don't believe me.

And you'll likely see a story soon about the WNBA finals and Sarver being VERY pissed because the rule about leaving the bench during altercations is exactly the same as the NBA, yet the Shock players didn't get suspended whatsoever. Saver was screaming at someone behind closed doors about that.

The AK deal has been talked about in the last week...guaranteed. Turns out they saw some stuff in film that turned them off on him. And about Shawn, lets just say that the coaching staff had a face to face with him recently and he was not very pleasant. He also burned all of his bridges with USA basketball. J. Colangelo isn't too happy about that. He certainly isn't making any more friends. I personally love the guy...he is nothing but nice to me when I talk to him...I just don't get his attitude.

It is amongst authorized staff...obviously I can't give up who it was because they can get in trouble, but if someone (admin or whatever) wants to contact me, I can let someone verify that I know people. Or you guys can just believe me. I can understand skepticism though...I wouldn't believe me either. So believe what you guys want. I know what I know...and obviously I'm not saying everything I am aware of. Gotta protect the innocent ya know. Just keep your eyes on those sports tickers...

Take it how you will, just thought i'd relay the message.

 

[Cheesebeef]

oye - here we go again with the RealGM boards!

seriously - it amazes me that a player like Marion can be as burned as he is about the way people see him considering he took the most shots on the team and makes the most money. if he's really that pissed, than good lord, what a freaking baby.

 

[azirish]

Alledged insider information is always the most exciting. Not accurate, but exciting.

This is a very tough case to evaluate because it is all based on "off the floor" stuff. Stats and finances make it hard to understand the discussion. But off the floor issues are often the reason for trades that don't otherwise make sense.

But is this really as big a deal as it is being made out? I wish I knew.

 

[sly fly]

Kirilenko: The one thing that has always bugged me about this guy, is that he's failed to develop his body since entering the league. He's skinny, which has probably contributed to his body breaking down late in the year.

This failure has left me wondering about his dedication.

In addition, his outside shot has also never developed on a consistent basis.

On the other hand, Marion may not be lights out from outside, but at least he's durable and gets a ton of easy baskets from running the floor and offensive put backs.

The only way I do this trade is if a Harpring or Milsap is included. Even then, I would be skeptical until I saw how it relates to W's and L's halfway through the dog days of the season.

Be careful what you wish for Sun's fans. We may not realize what we're missing until it's too late.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Kirilenko: The one thing that has always bugged me about this guy, is that he's failed to develop his body since entering the league. He's skinny, which has probably contributed to his body breaking down late in the year.

This failure has left me wondering about his dedication.

In addition, his outside shot has also never developed on a consistent basis.

On the other hand, Marion may not be lights out from outside, but at least he's durable and gets a ton of easy baskets from running the floor and offensive put backs.

The only way I do this trade is if a Harpring or Milsap is included. Even then, I would be skeptical until I saw how it relates to W's and L's halfway through the dog days of the season.

Be careful what you wish for Sun's fans. We may not realize what we're missing until it's too late.

agreed - I may not be Marion's biggest fan in the world, but I've always said the only deal I move him in has to be a slam dunk - this one is fraught with risk. I'd definitely have to take a wait and see approach to it even if we got both Milsap/Harpring and Andrei.

 

[elindholm]

Guys who post on message boards saying "You can believe me or not, I don't care" and then spewing a bunch of gossip are full of it about 99.9% of the time. This board's insider is a little different because he divluges his sources (privately, of course) and doesn't overstate things.

A Marion/Kirilenko deal wouldn't completely shock me, but there's no way the Suns would also get Millsap.

 

[nowagimp]

The benefit of this trade would be that Kirilenko does exactly what the Suns want Shawn Marion's role to be. Kirilenko never considers himself a go to scorer. Kirilenko is an excellent defender who plays better at the power forward spot. He doesn't try to take over as a scorer. He can block shots, run the floor, and keep the team small. His salary is also more in tune with what a player with that role should be getting paid. Kirilenko is also a very good passer and more of an overall game type of player. He's one of the few players in league history to record 5X5s (at least 5 stats in 5 categories: points, blocks, rebounds, assists, steals).

The other risk is that Marion's plantar fasciitis could be a nagging injury that removes Marion's ability to out-athlete more skilled or bigger players this season. Is he still the miracle-injury-comeback player we remember?

Also, when players of these caliber get traded, they tend to get at least one season of rejuvenation. If that's enough for a title, I say pull the friggin' trigger.

However, the reasons not to do this trade are obvious. Marion is a better scorer, better rebounder and somewhat close as a defender.

In the end, I'd call this a calculated risk. I would think the Suns should get something back in addition with this trade.

Marion, Banks, Piatkowski for Kirilenko, Millsap, Giricek?

I'm gonna present the devils advocate position to your post.

1) Marions scores alot with no plays called for him, hmmm, I dunno about AK, this is part of DA's strategy. AK doesnt finish as well as marion(eg alleyoops),one way DA trys to loosen the defense up when they try to use marions man on amare or Nash in a double team. Marion is also way faster on the break, not even close.
2) Worrying about Marions plantar facitis vs AK's whole body? Kinda looking at the glass less than half full there. Marion plays major minutes and has been consistently durable, AK plays alot less and always has. AK is physically struggling to compete in the NBA with that skinny body, thats why he's always hurt.
3) I like AK's unselfishness, he's a much better passer, but not a better shooter, not at all. Most teams will treat him like marion, leave him alone at the perimeter and use his man to pack the lane against the pick and roll. His FT percentage is significantly worse than shawns, and he's nowhere near the rebounder, agreed.
4) I also like AK's defense on the PF's if he can stay healthy and he's a better shot blocker and intimidator coming on help defense IF he can return to his healthy form, but thats uncertain. One thing he cant do is play D at the guard position, he gets eaten up, unlike Marion who is pretty effective guarding Nashs man, allowing Nash to guard a designated offensive stiff.


I will agree that I do like AK being the help defender on TD, Dirk better than marion. He's better than marion defending almost anyone but a guard with good footspeed. I just cant get past his "always injured" nature.

 

[nowagimp]

If the Suns do this trade, I want Millsap. We need a back up big who could actually play. The Jazz also may have wanted Banks (they wanted a back up point). So Marion, Banks, Pike for Kirilenko, Giricek, Millsap. It also helps us save on some of the back end of Kirilenko's contract by dumping Banks. Plus it saves us 3 million dollars this season, plus the luxury tax, which means it saves 6 million dollars.

Jerry Sloan, a coach who exercises a high level of discipline, wants Banks like he wants a case of permanent hemhorroids.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I will agree that I do like AK being the help defender on TD, Dirk better than marion. He's better than marion defending almost anyone but a guard with good footspeed. I just cant get past his "always injured" nature.

completely agree. the duability thing is THE main issue here and it's definitely a scary one.

 

[cly2tw]

There are pros and cons in the debate AK or Marion without money consideration. But the most serious concern with AK is his health. Assuming talentwise they were a wash, the contract aspects will dictate that AK +Giricek for Marion + Banks with the other two players being cap fillers sounds relative fair.

Now, I prefer AK over Marion regarding skills .

1. AK will be able to score down low against most players smaller than 6'7, so teams can't hide the likes of Harris, Terry, Parker on him on defense and harass Nash with a big athlectic 2/3 guy.

2. He is a much better position defender and help defender, due to better fundamental. The only area Marion has over him is the ability to defend PGs with some success. But outside Parker, this is not really needed. And with Spurs, we could always hide Nash on Bowen and move Raja on Parker etc.

3. On offense in general, AK has a better release and attacks the basket much better. Well, Marion is probably the best finisher at fastbreak, but he is gone anyway you look at it even if not for AK. Within the league, AK's fastbreak finishing is still among the better 3/4s. I agree, like Marion, AK is also a fair-weather player and can't be relied on under pressure. But we have Amare and Nash for that anyway, and Hill is a vet good at that too. As to the total offensive production, once AK plays in this system, I believe he will be almost as productive on paper as Marion, with say 17pt in 35 min.

 

[panfolk]

barbosa, diaw, pj, milsap, tucker, potapenko, marks, strawberry is a great bench

AND

getting rid of banks would make this a successful summer imo

If we got Milsap in the trade I doubt we'd get both Potapenko and PJ Brown as well.

 

[SunsTzu]

completely agree. the duability thing is THE main issue here and it's definitely a scary one.

Made all the more scary when we already have to worry about Amare's knees, Hills ankles, Nash's back and Barbosa's various illnesses and injuries he always gets.

If healthy though I'd take AK47 straight up over Marion but that is a big "if".

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Kirilenko is one of the most overrated players in the NBA. His career best PER is Marion's career worst. He doesn't make the Suns any better, actually some how ******* more (and literally cries tears to the media when things don't go his way), and has a FAR worse outside shot.

Then you get to his health problems and it is just a dumb dumb idea.

 

[cly2tw]

__________________
My avatar is just one example of women you will never see in Seattle.

-----

So, Chris, do you mean women in Seattle are never as plastic?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

__________________
My avatar is just one example of women you will never see in Seattle.

-----

So, Chris, do you mean women in Seattle are never as plastic?

You just took a large debit to your man card if you looked at that picture and thought "Plastic".

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

My first reaction was: why the hell would anyone ever wear suspenders?

 

[dodie53]

who's the babe?
=)

 

[azirish]

Kirilenko is one of the most overrated players in the NBA. His career best PER is Marion's career worst. He doesn't make the Suns any better, actually some how ******* more (and literally cries tears to the media when things don't go his way), and has a FAR worse outside shot.

Then you get to his health problems and it is just a dumb dumb idea.

The health issue makes the contract length a likely deal killer. But in terms of what each guy brings to the table on a single year basis, I'm not sure AK is as far down the scale as a pure stats comparison would suggest.

Any comparsion of offensive stats has to take into account playing for Jerry Sloan's slow and slower offense. I seriously dobut Marion could put up very good offensive stats on a team that does not typically run.

On defense, Marion can defense 1-4; but from what I've seen AK's length makes him a much better low post defender than Marion. Even more important, AK is an outstanding shot blocker inside the circle. Considering how teams are constantly attacking the basket against the Suns, the value of this would be magnified on Phoenix.

Still, $63 million for a guy with a history of injuries would be awfully chancy.