Martay is back

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Card Trader
He never said he was dumb, he said his posts were dumb.....but I do like how in your on going effort to be constantly negative you would figure a way to twist someones words........

Hey Jim, you at the Cards facility today?

Sorry man but aren't our posts representative of who we are as football fans - and isn't someone saying one's posts are dumb basically saying that that person's ideas are dumb, hence that person is dumb - Hey man - I don't take offense to what Jim said, but people wonder why the organization gets a bad rap and personally I think it would serve them better if an employee wasn't calling people who pay for tickets dumb - I don't really see what the problem is there.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
And basically JIm - you're saying that what Kerouac wrote is true because most people here DON'T buy into his posts just like most NFL guys don't buy into Mac- that makes the organziation look even worse!

Huh???

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Sorry man but aren't our posts representative of who we are as football fans - and isn't someone saying one's posts are dumb basically saying that that person's ideas are dumb, hence that person is dumb - Hey man - I don't take offense to what Jim said, but people wonder why the organization gets a bad rap and personally I think it would serve them better if an employee wasn't calling people who pay for tickets dumb - I don't really see what the problem is there.

Cheesy...are you dumb???LOL

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Rivercard
Huh???

Okay - I knew I didn't explain myself correctly there. But the exchange was this -

K9 - Many of our guys don't buy into Mac's dumb post game hurrah speeches.
Jim O - Just like many of our posters don't buy into your dumb posts.

Jimmy making a comparison here whther he realizes it or not. By basically saying "just like" he's comparing the two to each other and since it's pretty much accepted that K9's post are viewed as Jim put it there, then it follows that Man of our guys don't buy into Mac's rah rah stuff.

Just like many of our posters don't buy into your dumb posts, many of our guys don't buy into Mac's dumb post game hurrah speeches is inessence what Just like does for - ah screw it I;m just bored - I still don't think it's in the best interest of Cardinal employees to tell their fans they are dumb when only 1/3 of the stadium is gonna have people in it on Sunday.

 

[Chaz]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I never thought of Jim's posts as being a voice for his employer any more than I am a voice for mine.

Jim has his own voice and opinions. The only thing I take as being from the Cardinals is the press releases he posts from time to time.

 

[Jttsaz]

How does this go from a "Martay is Back" thread...to a he said this/he said that thread...Noone on this board is stupid...but some people on this board(most of them)are very opinionated..and some are very aggressively opinionated.Some posters are overly critical, some are just the opposite...many of us are somewhere inbetween..For the record..I don't think Coach Mac's speeches are dumb...I would argue that most people in NFL/Media think that coach Mac is a hell of a coach given the impossible task of trying coach the Cards without a full deck...like so many predicessors before him...I for one appreciate Mac's honesty, accessibility, and enthusiasm...I just think that he is in a very tough spot...As for the other topic..I think everyone needs to lighten up a bit...

 

[Lars the Red]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Sorry man but aren't our posts representative of who we are as football fans - and isn't someone saying one's posts are dumb basically saying that that person's ideas are dumb, hence that person is dumb -

You are correct.

Stupid posts = Stupid Fan = Stupid person.

Negative posts = Negative Fan = Negative person.

Jim stated something he felt. He stated something many feel. Your stating your feelings in your usual negative, insulting fashion. Should I not do business with you or your employer because you are insulting and negative all the time or should I give your organization the benefit of the doubt and recognize your posts as individual feelings?

Jim would qualify as a loyal person who gives us informative posts and insight we are not normally privy to.

 

[Lars the Red]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
I still don't think it's in the best interest of Cardinal employees to tell their fans they are dumb when only 1/3 of the stadium is gonna have people in it on Sunday.

If Mr. B comes on the public address system at SDS and tells all of us the we are stupid, I would see your point. Jim telling a poster on the board he's the writer of stupid posts doesn't cross any lines in my book. The only people that might feel it does are those that are looking for any excuse imaginable to speak negatively about the organization.

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I'd beg to differ. Scobey's a draft choice, and Kasper's a guy that they signed off the street. Scobey is a guy that has been good enough to the coaches to put on IR last year, and to keep over Travis Prentice this season, so they have an investment in the guy.

Kasper is a player that apparently only fans like (and only some of them) but hasn't made a move up the depth chart, and is obvioulsly not one of his coordinator's or position coach's favorites (read the KFFL reports about how B. Johnson is struggling in practice. He's apparently getting the start in front of Kasper), as well as doesn't "fit in" with the rest of the wideouts on the roster. The only thing he does is return kickoffs, and now we have a kick returner who had a better average than him in 2002.

K9:

No need to beg. Go ahead and differ.

Josh Scobey's a draft choice who got beat out for #3 by a UDFA, and who--in the final cuts--beat out "a guy that they signed off the street." Whoopee. The Cards have cut higher draft choices than Scobey.

If Bryant Johnson starts this Sunday in front of Kasper--as well as Gilmore and Foster--it's because all three are hurt. Ultimately, you'd hope that a first-rounder would get on the field over two former UDFAs and a waiver pick-up (who, ironically, was the only one of the three drafted out of college).

Jenkins only had a significantly better average (20-559-28.0) returning kicks in 2002 because he broke one for 95 yards and a TD. Take that single play away, and he was 19-464, or 24.4 yards-per. And he's a turnover waiting to happen, every time he runs one back.

Kasper was 55-1,300-23.6, playing on three different ST units, and had the league's 4th-highest total return yards. Very comparable stats, in fact, to Kansas City's Dante Hall--3rd in total yards--who finished 57-1,354-23.8 and went to the Pro Bowl as a result.

WC

 

[who_me?]

Martay just fluncked his physical!!!!!!!!

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Wild Card
(who, ironically, was the only one of the three drafted out of college).

Jenkins had a better average (20-559-28.0) returning kicks in 2002 because he broke one for 95 yards and a TD. Take that single play away, and he was 19-464, or 24.4 yards-per. And he's a turnover waiting to happen, every time he runs one back.

Kasper was 55-1,300-23.6, playing on three different ST units, and had the league's 4th-highest total return yards. Very comparable stats, in fact, to Kansas City's Dante Hall--3rd in total yards--who finished 57-1,354-23.8 and went to the Pro Bowl as a result.

WC

WC:

I thought that Jason McAddley was drafted out of college.

So, take away Mar Tay's 96-yard TD return, and he still averages more than Kevin Kasper? How does this help your arguement? Second, Kasper better have been toward the top of the league in total return yards, at the end of the season, teams were scoring like crazy on the Cards defense, and he had a lot of opportunities (Dante Hall had 57 returns in a season, Kasper had 55 in six games. Of those 55, how many did he take to the house? Zero? Jenkins had one in 20. Kasper and Mar Tay had the same amount of TDs last season, but Mar Tay had fewer opportunities (Kasper had more starts, which equates to looks).

 

[Lex]

Jason McAddley- 5th rounder out of Alabama in 02.

Martay couldn't pass a physical. He could be non-white however.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by who_me?
Martay just fluncked his physical!!!!!!!!

 

[who_me?]

Martay Fluncked his physical!!!!!!!!!!!!

and "Who Me?" done flunck-a-did sPeLliNg!

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Lex
Jason McAddley- 5th rounder out of Alabama in 02.

Martay couldn't pass a physical. He could be non-white however.

I liked Mar Tay on kickoffs. They would play Destiny Child's "Jumpin' Jumpin'" and he'd get the crowd all pumped up. He was a player that I liked rooting for. Kasper doesn't seem to really be having a lot of fun playing, and that's one of the reasons that I don't like him. For the record, I don't not like him because he's white.

 

[cardsunsfan]

So for the record you don't like him because he doesn't look like he's having fun playing? How can you tell?

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by Jim Omohundro
Just like most people on this board don't buy into your dumb posts.

 

[Card Trader]

Originally posted by SunCardfan
So for the record you don't like him because he doesn't look like he's having fun playing? How can you tell?

No one is buying his drivel, he's backpedalling now and just looks more ridiculous.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by SunCardfan
So for the record you don't like him because he doesn't look like he's having fun playing? How can you tell?

His face is a little pale.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Actually I'm not trying to rip on anybody. I'm just wondering why people don't think he's that good of a receiver or at least better then either Foster,Gilmore, McCaddley, Jenkins? As Pasch mentioned he's only a #4 or #5 receiver at best. Why is that?! What makes him that way? Why doesn't Sully think he's good enough? I want to know!!!

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Jeez man - relax Jim O. If you're gonna work for an organization that is in the public eye and ARE a representative of that organization - you should know how to treat your fans - it's a problem most of think the Cards have anyways and posts like that only perpetuate it. Have thicker skin man - it's one thing to defend your organization or stay quiet on some issues - it's another to tell one it's fans who buys tickets how dumb they are.

No Cheesie, when Jim posts here he is doing at Jim, not as Cards representative. Get used to it.

He is just as entitled to post as the rest of us.

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Jeez man - relax Jim O. If you're gonna work for an organization that is in the public eye and ARE a representative of that organization - you should know how to treat your fans - it's a problem most of think the Cards have anyways and posts like that only perpetuate it. Have thicker skin man - it's one thing to defend your organization or stay quiet on some issues - it's another to tell one it's fans who buys tickets how dumb they are.

Jim is not posting as a Cardinals representative, just as Jim. He can post anyway he likes. Why do some people have such a hard time understanding this.

As a bonus he gives us insider info occasionaly, Chill Chesse

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I thought that Jason McAddley was drafted out of college.

So, take away Mar Tay's 96-yard TD return, and he still averages more than Kevin Kasper? How does this help your arguement? Second, Kasper better have been toward the top of the league in total return yards, at the end of the season, teams were scoring like crazy on the Cards defense, and he had a lot of opportunities (Dante Hall had 57 returns in a season, Kasper had 55 in six games. Of those 55, how many did he take to the house? Zero? Jenkins had one in 20. Kasper and Mar Tay had the same amount of TDs last season, but Mar Tay had fewer opportunities (Kasper had more starts, which equates to looks).

K9:

I didn't mention McAddley, who was drafted by the Cardinals. I said, >>If Bryant Johnson starts this Sunday in front of Kasper--as well as Gilmore and Foster--it's because all three are hurt. Ultimately, you'd hope that a first-rounder would get on the field over two former UDFAs and a waiver pick-up (who, ironically, was the only one of the three drafted out of college).<< Gilmore was a UDFA with the Cards, and Foster with the Lions.

In comparing Jenkins' and Kasper's averages, I said significant difference. 28.0 is a lot more impressive than 24.4. Averages often go down as attempts go up, for that matter; it'd be interesting to see if Jenkins would've finished a full 2002 season closer to his 2001 results (49-1,120-22.9) if he hadn't been injured.

Kasper had 55 returns last year in 13 games, for what that matters (?): 4 games with Denver, 3 with Seattle, and 6 with the Cards. (He was out injured weeks 1 & 2, and inactive week 4.) The comparison to Dante Hall is not only valid, it's glaringly obvious, from the total yards rankings:

#3 Dante Hall, KAN 57 1354 23.8
#4 Kevin Kasper, DEN/ARI/SEA 55 1300 23.6

Hall clearly helped his Pro Bowl resume by also returning punts (29-390-13.4, 2 TDs), but Kasper ranks among the better KRs in the league.

Finally, I hadn't compared Jenkins' and Kasper's productivity in 2002 as WRs, but since you brought it up:

MarTay Jenkins, ARI (8 games) 22-250-11.4, 1 TD
Kevin Kasper, ARI (4 games) 15-180-12.0, 3 TDs

I think it's important to remember that this was Jenkins' third season playing in the Cards offense, working with Plummer, while Kasper had been on the roster for about two weeks before his first start at WR. I'd give Kasper credit for being a quick study, if anything.

You're entitled to your opinion, guy, but you really need to do your homework on this stuff. JMHO.

WC

 

[Sandan]

Sorry, submit button overkill and PC lockup problem

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by SunCardfan
So for the record you don't like him because he doesn't look like he's having fun playing? How can you tell?

I said that Mar Tay looks like he's having a lot of fun on the field, and I like that. Kasper, to me, doesn't. He goes on the field, returns the kick, and then goes back. I haven't seen him "pumping up the crowd" or anything, which is one of the ways that Dex Jackson won me over big time in the first preseason game. You can like him for whatever reasons that you like him, and I can not like him for whatever reasons that I do.

I also don't like Kasper because in over 50 chances, he's never taken the ball back to the house. I think in 50 chances he only once took the ball past mid-field. You never knew when MarTay was going to take a ball all the way, and I like that in a player. I like Tim Dwight for the same reason.