Matt Cassel traded to Chiefs

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We'll see. It isn't often that you see the Patriots get fleeced. I agree with Russ that Cassel will look very ordinary outside of NE.

Vrabel is a throw-in who is close to the end of his career.

They have the 23rd pick in round one, and will be in a position to pick up one of the better linebackers, and there is always first round quality that drops out of the first and available near the top of the 2nd.

Let's not forget that they just added Vrabel's number, plus close to 15 million on Cassell, to $$$ available in free agency and extensions.

Fleeced??? left to be seen...
 

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I don't understand how stuff like this can go on. If the Patriots franchised Cassel they shouldn't be able to just, essentially, give him away. Isn't this like insider trading or collusion or something? A starting QB and a starting LB for a single, 2nd round draft pick? That's ridiculous.
 

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Those "quotes" about Haley are bunk. I don't buy it for a second that they ignored Haley as the OC yet still made the Super Bowl.

Not bunk! Mike Jureki reported that there is pool going on within the offensive players on the Arizona Cardinals of when Haley will first be punched in the face by a Chiefs player.

I guess Waters had a brief conversation with Haley and asked him about current players and how they fit in with Haleys system. It was reported that Haley told Waters that he could walk put into the street and find 22 guys who could go 2-14. I guess Waters took offense to that.:)

I don't know what Cardinals players told Waters exactly but it is known that Haley is not a players coach. He doesn't like to chit chat and is all business and believes coaches coach and players play. So it is no surprise that Haley wasn't all that thrilled with Waters inquiring about what his plans were.
 
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I don't understand how stuff like this can go on. If the Patriots franchised Cassel they shouldn't be able to just, essentially, give him away. Isn't this like insider trading or collusion or something? A starting QB and a starting LB for a single, 2nd round draft pick? That's ridiculous.

????

Why shouldn't they accept whatever compensation they consider adequate?

The Pats sure as heck didn't want the cost associated with the 3rd pick for Cassell, and in the end got something neighbouring the first round for a guy that could have walked away from them without compensation, if they hadn't used the tag.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Vrabel and Cassel for the #34 overall. WOW! The Chiefs pulled off a major coup in this deal!

Agreed...significant improvement on both sides of the ball for a 2nd rounder. The AFC west is weak as hell, a couple more nice additions and the Chiefs may be a contender in the division. I believe Haley will run a wide open offense similar to what Cassel was doing in NE. They'll at least be more entertaining to watch.
 

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????

Why shouldn't they accept whatever compensation they consider adequate?

The Pats sure as heck didn't want the cost associated with the 3rd pick for Cassell, and in the end got something neighbouring the first round for a guy that could have walked away from them without compensation, if they hadn't used the tag.

Mokler isn't happy cause when KC restructures Cassel to around 8 mil a year, Warner won't be justified asking for 14.5 mil from the Cards.
 

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Why shouldn't they accept whatever compensation they consider adequate?
Obviously they can do whatever they want but with all the values placed on each draft pick I don't see how 2 NFL starters equates to a 2nd round pick.

I'm pretty sure teams aren't allowed to just give away their draft picks during the actual draft(based on the value scale) so I don't see why Bellichick is allowed to give a good buddy discount to Pioli and the Chiefs. The Raiders, Chargers and Broncos should be especially pissed.

I'd bet that there would have been quite a few offers to NE if it was know that a 2nd round pick would get them Cassel and Vrabel. There's no way NE is getting any kind of value on this deal and it's typical shenanigans by them.

Let's look at it in a different light. What if Whis did the same type of thing and gave Leinart and Okeafor to the Chiefs for a 2nd round pick? Would that be a fair deal to the Cardinals?
 

moklerman

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Mokler isn't happy cause when KC restructures Cassel to around 8 mil a year, Warner won't be justified asking for 14.5 mil from the Cards.
Oh boy. Another stalker. It's sad that you need me to feel good about yourself.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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by them.

Let's look at it in a different light. What if Whis did the same type of thing and gave Leinart and Okeafor to the Chiefs for a 2nd round pick? Would that be a fair deal to the Cardinals?
I would give them Okeafor for a 2nd rounder :D.
 

moklerman

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I would give them Okeafor for a 2nd rounder
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I just picked Okeafer because he's listed, like Vrabel, as the starting left side LB for their respective teams by NFL.com. You can't leave out the former USC QB with about a season's worth of starts out of the equation though.
 

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Matt Cassel imo is a good Qb. When Leinart was out, I don't remember if it was injury or they were simply kicking butt (or both at various time), I thought Cassel was the better Qb.

That's what my eyes were telling me. My head thought 'still want leinart' since he was the guy that achieved what he did. I felt my suspicions were confirmed when Cassel got drafted, and it was NE who did it.

As of now, personally I feel Palmer, Cassel, Leinart in that order of talent. Where does Sanchez fit in. Ofc I can be wrong, but I feel Sanchez is either a little bit better than Leinart, or a little less. At this stage Sanchez is a 2nd-3rd round Qb, nothing more imo.

In five years it might be 1) Cassel, 2)Palmer and then however Leinart/Sanchez end up imo. I feel Sanchez has potential bust written all over him. But I could very well be wrong. I didn't watch every USC game, but Sanchez never impressed me much.

NE is on the hook for Brady's salary. Cassel's only on a 1 year contract via the franchise tag. I'm not an expert, but my guess is that it makes it easier to trade a franchise player because there is no signing bonus involved. (thus no dead cap space which hinders trades usually)

Next season they'd either have to sign cassel to a long term deal and cut brady, or lose Cassel entirely w/o compensation.

It is a risk if Brady isn't ready, so one would have to think that they did their due diligence about Brady and feel comfortable he will be recovered. But you never know, and things can go wrong even when due diligence is done.

That said, acquiring the 34th pick is excellent. Generally there are 30-40 players worthy of being 1st round selections. 34th gives them a great chance to get a guy that slipped who has 1st round talent, but not have to pay 1st round price.

Again because of cap numbers I'm in full belief that without being the luckiest GM alive, teams are better off consistently picking lower in the first round of the draft. High seconds, like they've become in NBA can have more appeal than a 25th-32nd.

If that player busts, the cap hit is relatively negligible.

Meanwhile for KC getting a starting Qb and a good starting lb for the 34th pick is a sweet deal. I think both made out like bandits because the trade fits so well for both.

Thigpen looks surprising good at times last season. I payed a bit more attention than I normally would since I picked him up on my fantasy team. That said, I'd rather have Cassel going forward, and you still have thigpen. Cassel is on a 1 year contract. (although they'll probably extend him). But if not, they can feel them both out, and figure out what the best thing to do before next offseason. It's not like thigpen has a huge cap number.

Also I can see a 2nd deal coming down to replace the #34 with a similar pick (2nd rounder above 50 or so) for TG. Not that Haley would like to have him, but at his age, and cap number, and this being the 1st year of a new Chiefs era, I can see him being traded. Ofc he very well may stay on the Chiefs, like what Haley is doing and re-sign for a couple more years. But all-in-all, I wouldn't be surprised that in a sense the end result is, TG for Vrabel and Cassel and maybe a 2nd round pick a couple of notches lower.
 

IAWarnerFan

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Only thing dumber than overspending on a QB:

Trading for an overspent QB when you have one that may be equal value!

Dumb! Dumb!! Dumb!!!

And to think I was starting to like where they were headed. :bang:
 

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Actually, to make it fair, the Patriots should get Thigpen as part of the deal. Let him have a training camp and a few games with the Patriots to see what he can do.
 

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Also interesting that no new contract was reported. Usually teams wait to complete the trade until after the new player agrees to a new deal.
 

IAWarnerFan

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Actually, to make it fair, the Patriots should get Thigpen as part of the deal. Let him have a training camp and a few games with the Patriots to see what he can do.
He played well for the Chiefs last year. Just think of what he could do for the Pats. He very well may be better than Cassel.
 

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Also interesting that no new contract was reported. Usually teams wait to complete the trade until after the new player agrees to a new deal.
I also never heard that Cassel actually signed the franchise offer that the Patriots place on him. I know it was widely reported that the team franchised him but much after that it was also reported that he never actually signed it and I never heard a follow up to it.
 

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He played well for the Chiefs last year. Just think of what he could do for the Pats. He very well may be better than Cassel.
It's all a crap-shoot to be sure but I certainly give Thigpen credit for doing what he did on a pretty bad team and not having 1st or 2nd string reps during training camp. That says quite a bit about his potential if he was able to come in cold like that and still put up some pretty respectable numbers.
 

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I don't have any problem with this deal in regards to fairness. Right now, it seems to favor the Chiefs because they have gotten 2 players and New England has gotten a pick in the high second round.

Why would New England do this deal for only a 2nd rounder? Well, first and foremost, "a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush." They were not going to be able to hold onto Cassel and Vrabel is nearing the end of his career, so why not take what you can get. Smart teams build through the draft. In this case the Pats took a 7th round pick and turned it into a 2nd round pick. Pretty good deal for them. New England dumped some players that were on their way out the door anyways and got something in return which is more than most teams would have gotten.
 
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Also interesting that no new contract was reported. Usually teams wait to complete the trade until after the new player agrees to a new deal.

They pick up the signed tag... and have time on their side.
 

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New England dumped some players that were on their way out the door anyways and got something in return which is more than most teams would have gotten.
The more I think about it, my problem isn't so much what they got(which you have summed up nicely) it's that it wasn't a fair market deal. If Cassel was sitting there with the tag on his head no other team in the league would dream of offering a 2nd round pick for not only him, but Vrabel thrown in for free. You think the Jets, Browns, Vikings, etc. wouldn't have matched or exceeded that offer?

That's why I think it's unfair. Pioli and Billechick are essentially cheating everyone else. It's almost like the Patriots and Chiefs are one team and just interchanging parts any way they please. To me, it falls right into the idea that 1 owner can't own two different teams.
 
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The more I think about it, my problem isn't so much what they got(which you have summed up nicely) it's that it wasn't a fair market deal. If Cassel was sitting there with the tag on his head no other team in the league would dream of offering a 2nd round pick for not only him, but Vrabel thrown in for free. You think the Jets, Browns, Vikings, etc. wouldn't have matched or exceeded that offer?

That's why I think it's unfair. Pioli and Billechick are essentially cheating everyone else. It's almost like the Patriots and Chiefs are one team and just interchanging parts any way they please. To me, it falls right into the idea that 1 owner can't own two different teams.

Perhaps so, in your view... but... after team (a) assesses the possibilities they are free to take whatever offer fits their needs best. And, let's not forget - we are not privy to the Pats thinking on this issue, although, I doubt that making their former employee (Pioli) happy was very high on the agenda.
 

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Obviously they can do whatever they want but with all the values placed on each draft pick I don't see how 2 NFL starters equates to a 2nd round pick.

I'm pretty sure teams aren't allowed to just give away their draft picks during the actual draft(based on the value scale) so I don't see why Bellichick is allowed to give a good buddy discount to Pioli and the Chiefs. The Raiders, Chargers and Broncos should be especially pissed.

I'd bet that there would have been quite a few offers to NE if it was know that a 2nd round pick would get them Cassel and Vrabel. There's no way NE is getting any kind of value on this deal and it's typical shenanigans by them.

Let's look at it in a different light. What if Whis did the same type of thing and gave Leinart and Okeafor to the Chiefs for a 2nd round pick? Would that be a fair deal to the Cardinals?


Parcells and Ireland traded a 4th rounder to Dallas last year for Akin Ayodele and Anthony Fasano

this kind of thing is much more common when you're trading with front offices that you know
 
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