Matt Leinart does not look like a rookie

[Stallion]

This Mark Linehart fella looks pretty good.

We got a huge break when he dropped to 10. Keep investing in the O-line and we'll be set on offense for years to come.

 

[Cheesebeef]

seesred, you've got your head on your shoulders. Leinart has yet to see a defense specifically scheme to confuse him. Warner has seen everything thrown at him, including the kitchen sink. He's not top notch physically, but he can make reads as good as anyone you can think of and far better than the majority of NFL QBs. It can only help Leinart to watch for a while.

Most of the people pushing Leinart starting were scolding people for not taking preseason seriously enough after the whipping in NE. It's still just preseason, whether we look good or bad.

I'm telling you guys, if Warner is our starter all year, I have zero faith that we win more than 7 games. People can spout about his great year last year (Josh was on the same pace yardage wise in his six games and Josh is terrible) and his Super Bowl MVP but that's in the past.

Now, I'm not saying Matt would win usmore than 7 gamesand he probably wouldn't, but I don't see us going to the playoffs either way and that's why I want Matt in there.

I just happen to think Kurt's relatively washed-up. He'll be a GREAT backup QB next year though!

That being said, I KNOW Matt's not going to start and I hope to be proven wrong about Kurt's washed-up-ed-ness.

 

[ReddBird]

From what I've read, Warner could have walked away from Arizona and easily signed with another team. He stayed with the Cards for a variety of reasons -- he liked it here, wanted stability, and so on -- but one reason was that he was promised the starting QB job. He'd earned it.

If that's true, the team needs to stand by its promise. New York screwed Warner when they let Eli Manning take over...after promising KW that they'd go with whoever was the best quarterback at the time. Bull: They went with their big money #1 pick. Warner ended up leaving the team and Manning suffered from a lack of development time.

I know: It's a business, NY wanted to sell tickets, excite the public, yatta yatta. I still say, you honor your promises.

Leinart shows great poise and I'm surprised by the skills he's shown this preseason. The more I watch, the happier I am that we drafted him and that he finally signed with us (the delay in signing = I blame his agent). Let him grow, let him learn, and let him start next year.

 

[az1965]

Well said, aj. Warner is our best chance to get to the playoffs which we will this year if no major injuries.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I know: It's a business, NY wanted to sell tickets, excite the public, yatta yatta. I still say, you honor your promises.

selling tickets is NOT an issue with the giants. they are sold out for generations. not a consideration. they just threw eli in there to get started on their future.

 

[Big Red Line]

I'm glad Matt is our QB and look forward to many exciting and successful years. However, I also have plenty of confidence in Kurt Warner, a QB who deserves respect and admiration. Hyping the rookie QB is shallow and shortsighted. We need stability. We need experience. We need Kurt.

As this thread demonstrates, there will always be a groundling element that overreacts to the events of the moment, and puts more faith in wishful thinking than level-headed observation.

Matt is great PR. He is off to a good start. He is not yet the QB that Warner is and will not be this year and possibly next. Any sensible Cardinals fan should concentrate her or his hopes on Warner staying healthy.

 

[conraddobler]

From what I've seen and read of Matt, if Warner goes down we might be suprised.

I like having both of them but you can't compare Matt to most rookies, so far I don't think he's asked Warner as much as what time it is. That means he intends to take the job as soon as possible and if I were Kurt I'd stay healthy.

Everyone saying that Warner is the better QB right now and should start, well, at the moment I agree but this isn't your normal rookie situation, he's not normal at all, so this thread is aptly named.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If that's true, the team needs to stand by its promise. New York screwed Warner when they let Eli Manning take over...after promising KW that they'd go with whoever was the best quarterback at the time. Bull: They went with their big money #1 pick. Warner ended up leaving the team and Manning suffered from a lack of development time.

I know: It's a business, NY wanted to sell tickets, excite the public, yatta yatta. I still say, you honor your promises.

Manning suffered from a lack of development time? The guy threw for 3500 yards, 24 tds and 17 INT while QBing his team to a first round home playoff game - boy, I'd hate for Leinart to suffer that kind of progression...

As far as selling tickets, yada, yada... come on man. They were playing for their future like Ouchie said. Something I bet we'll see come Week 10 when we're out of the playoff race.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm glad Matt is our QB and look forward to many exciting and successful years. However, I also have plenty of confidence in Kurt Warner, a QB who deserves respect and admiration. Hyping the rookie QB is shallow and shortsighted. We need stability. We need experience. We need Kurt.

As this thread demonstrates, there will always be a groundling element that overreacts to the events of the moment, and puts more faith in wishful thinking than level-headed observation.

Matt is great PR. He is off to a good start. He is not yet the QB that Warner is and will not be this year and possibly next. Any sensible Cardinals fan should concentrate her or his hopes on Warner staying healthy.

Any sensible Cardinal fan should recognize Warner for what he is - a stop-gap, bandaid at best who's best years are behind him.

And the people pushing for Matt are "shortsighted"... do you know what that wor4d actually means? If anything, the people that are pushing for Leinart are FAR-SIGHTED because they're looking towards their future, and are willing to sacrifice this season to develop the kid so next year we can be GREAT, while those pushing for Warner are actually viewing the Cards with short-sightedness as all they care about is THIS season, or what's directly in front of them.

As far as calling the others "shallow" - well that's just stupid and inflammatory. Way to go there tough guy!

 

[ajcardfan]

Manning suffered from a lack of development time? The guy threw for 3500 yards, 24 tds and 17 INT while QBing his team to a first round home playoff game - boy, I'd hate for Leinart to suffer that kind of progression...

As far as selling tickets, yada, yada... come on man. They were playing for their future like Ouchie said. Something I bet we'll see come Week 10 when we're out of the playoff race.

But, his rookie year was horrendous after he took over from Warner. The Giants were 4-3 under Warner and won only 1 game after that IIRC. I think Leinart is better than Eli, but I don't want to tank a season to develop a player. I think Eli could've had very similar success to what he had the next year anyhow.

I just don't see it as "either-or". We can win with Warner this year and still have a stud QB in Leinart for years to come.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But, his rookie year was horrendous after he took over from Warner. The Giants were 4-3 under Warner and won only 1 game after that IIRC. I think Leinart is better than Eli, but I don't want to tank a season to develop a player. I think Eli could've had very similar success to what he had the next year anyhow.

I just don't see it as "either-or". We can win with Warner this year and still have a stud QB in Leinart for years to come.

I guess that's where we differ - I don't see us winning anything with Warner or even getting to the playoffs. That's why I'd rather see Leinart in there.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But, his rookie year was horrendous after he took over from Warner. The Giants were 4-3 under Warner and won only 1 game after that IIRC.

actually the Giants were 5-4 when Warner got the hook and had already started ot fall apart losing 3 of 4 to horrendous teams (us, the Lions and The Bears) after their defense got them out to a 4-1 start.

And yes, the Giants only one 1 game the rest of the year, but there was PROGRESSION from Eli throughout the end of the season and in the last three game sof the season, they lost 33-30 against the 15-1 Steelers, 23-22 against the bengals who were pushing for a playoff spot, then beat the Cowboys on the road, to knock the Cowboys out of the playoffs in the last game of the season and now...

They're the defending NFC EAST CHAMPS and a team some are saying is a Super Bowl Contender. I'd say playing Eli worke dout just fine for them

 

[ajcardfan]

I guess that's where we differ - I don't see us winning anything with Warner or even getting to the playoffs. That's why I'd rather see Leinart in there.

Who knows what's going to happen. But, based on how he's doing in preseason, I think he will get the job done. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he made the Pro Bowl IF he stays healthy. That said, everyone knows this is Leinart's team. Even Warner knows it.

I'd rather see us follow the plan the Bengals followed with Palmer. They let him sit a year and went 8-8 with Kitna as QB. They gave him the reins the next season, and he's been fantastic. I'd take Palmer over Eli Manning everyday and twice on Sunday.

We have a better team overall than those Bengals did the first year after they drafted Palmer. It's our best shot at the playoffs since 99, how can we throw that away to develop a player no matter how good he is?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Who knows what's going to happen. But, based on how he's doing in preseason, I think he will get the job done. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he made the Pro Bowl IF he stays healthy. That said, everyone knows this is Leinart's team. Even Warner knows it.

I'd rather see us follow the plan the Bengals followed with Palmer. They let him sit a year and went 8-8 with Kitna as QB. They gave him the reins the next season, and he's been fantastic. I'd take Palmer over Eli Manning everyday and twice on Sunday.

We have a better team overall than those Bengals did the first year after they drafted Palmer. It's our best shot at the playoffs since 99, how can we throw that away to develop a player no matter how good he is?

I just don't think we have that great of a shot at the playoffs this year - on paper the Hawks, SOMEONE FROM THE NFC NORTH, the Falcons, the Giants, the Skins, The Cowboys, The Bucs and The Panthers are all better than us - right there that's 8 teams for six slots - I think the playoffs are a prayer this year and personally, I'd rather see the 13-3 mark Peyton put up or the 11-5 and a Super Bowl that Big Ben put up OR Eli's 10-6, all in their second years over Palmer's 8-8.

 

[PJ1]

I guess that's where we differ - I don't see us winning anything with Warner or even getting to the playoffs. That's why I'd rather see Leinart in there.

What exactly do you think the Cards are missing? Do you believe our QB play is what is keeping us out of the playoffs?

It is really simple in my opinion. If we can establish a running game on offense and play the run consistently better on D we are a contender. If not, doesn't matter who we have at QB.

 

[PJ1]

I just don't think we have that great of a shot at the playoffs this year - on paper the Hawks, SOMEONE FROM THE NFC NORTH, the Falcons, the Giants, the Skins, The Cowboys, The Bucs and The Panthers are all better than us - right there that's 8 teams for six slots - I think the playoffs are a prayer this year and personally, I'd rather see the 13-3 mark Peyton put up or the 11-5 and a Super Bowl that Big Ben put up OR Eli's 10-6, all in their second years over Palmer's 8-8.

Your comparisons are fine if we can run the ball like the Colts, Steelers and Giants. How do you think those QB's would have done with Arizona last year?

You believe Ben could lead a team with our OL from last year to a Super Bowl? He would fare better on his motorcycle.

 

[hsandhu]

actually the Giants were 5-4 when Warner got the hook and had already started ot fall apart losing 3 of 4 to horrendous teams (us, the Lions and The Bears) after their defense got them out to a 4-1 start.

And yes, the Giants only one 1 game the rest of the year, but there was PROGRESSION from Eli throughout the end of the season and in the last three game sof the season, they lost 33-30 against the 15-1 Steelers, 23-22 against the bengals who were pushing for a playoff spot, then beat the Cowboys on the road, to knock the Cowboys out of the playoffs in the last game of the season and now...

They're the defending NFC EAST CHAMPS and a team some are saying is a Super Bowl Contender. I'd say playing Eli worke dout just fine for them

Dude, you can make arguments for both sitting or playing, with examples for both. I can throw out carson palmer, who most experts pick (pre-injury), as do I, as the best of the eli/roethlisberger/palmer trio, and he sat his entire first year.

People are raving about philips rivers this pre season, and if he does in fact turn out to be good, he sat for his first TWO years.

There is no way you can argue one way is better than the other, as there are examples on both sides of it working/not working. Heck a couple years ago Manning/McNair shared the MVP, one got thrown into the fire, the other sat, yet they both eventually became MVP's.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Dude, you can make arguments for both sitting or playing, with examples for both. I can throw out carson palmer, who most experts pick (pre-injury), as do I, as the best of the eli/roethlisberger/palmer trio, and he sat his entire first year.

People are raving about philips rivers this pre season, and if he does in fact turn out to be good, he sat for his first TWO years.

There is no way you can argue one way is better than the other, as there are examples on both sides of it working/not working. Heck a couple years ago Manning/McNair shared the MVP, one got thrown into the fire, the other sat, yet they both eventually became MVP's.

good lord - the argument isn't one way works better than the other - of course both ways have worked - the argument is one way works FASTER than the others - the faster you play, the faster you get your team to the playoffs. The Bengals had to wait THREE SEASONS to get to the playoffs with Carson, the Titans had to wait god knows how many years to get to the playoffs with McNair. Even AFTER they sat on the bench, there was a learning curve and sacrificed years for both of those guys and that's my point. ANY year we finally decide to throw Leinart to the fire is going to be a bumpy road and a missed playoff year more than likely. Again, using Palmer and McNair as examples, both the Bengals and the Titans faile dot make the playoffs until those guys were in AT LEAST their third years in the league.

On the other hand, if you take Eli, Ben, Peyton and hell even Vick, and then even keep going back to guys like Donovan and Bledsoe (all the high #1s who were actually successfull) they ALL made the playoffs and made their teams instant year in year out contenders by the 2ND season. A QB gets it or he doesn't and I just would rather get the future started now, than wait, because if Matt goes in next year, we ain't making the playoffs as he's gonna take his licks just like every first year QB.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What exactly do you think the Cards are missing? Do you believe our QB play is what is keeping us out of the playoffs?

It is really simple in my opinion. If we can establish a running game on offense and play the run consistently better on D we are a contender. If not, doesn't matter who we have at QB.

Right now - I think the Cards are missing an average O-line and a reliable QB.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Your comparisons are fine if we can run the ball like the Colts, Steelers and Giants. How do you think those QB's would have done with Arizona last year?

You believe Ben could lead a team with our OL from last year to a Super Bowl? He would fare better on his motorcycle.

Uh - what does Ben winning a Super Bowl with our OL from last year have to do with anything in the context of wanting Matt to start right now? I was demonstrating that ALL OF THOSE #1 QBs got exponentially better in their second seasons after playing a full rookie season.

The above has nothing to do with the conversation.

 

[PJ1]

Uh - what does Ben winning a Super Bowl with our OL from last year have to do with anything in the context of wanting Matt to start right now? I was demonstrating that ALL OF THOSE #1 QBs got exponentially better in their second seasons after playing a full rookie season.

The above has nothing to do with the conversation.

Uh, go back and read what you posted. You would rather see a Super Bowl like Ben won. You would rather see a 13-3 season or a 10-6 season. I assume you mean that is what we will get in his second season if we play Leinart now. Right? Isn't that what we are talking about? Aren't these the examples you are using to make your point?

Those records have plenty to do with the teams these QB's play for. All have running games and until we get one the QB won't matter.

You are convinced replacing Warner with Leinart gets us to where we want to be. We have a passing game. We need a running game and a consistent D to contend. Leinart will be good but he will need support to succeed.

I want the Cardinals to win. QB is far from their biggest problem right now. You don't agree and on the basis of one preseason game want a change at QB.

We will never agree on this one. So be it.

 

[D-Dogg]

I'd just rather have Matt learn behind Warner and take over for him in week 6 or 7 when Warner gets hurt, so that he has some more time to acclimate to the league and read and study in-game defenses and adjustments.

Warner can get us off to a good start, and I think he will probably get hurt at some point...I want Matt to come in fresh and ready to perform rather than shoving him out the gate with the world on his shoulders (see JJ Arrington's performance last year and the way he is playing this year after the world fell off his shoulders in 2005).

I think Matt plays this year, and if it is mid-season, I'm not sure if Warner gets his job back. If it is very early in the year, Warner will go back in because as good as Matt is, he's still going to struggle at times. The more time reading and studying defenses will be exponentially better to his development than live action. The kid is SMART and can learn by watching as well as doing.

We are SET at QB. Isn't that freaking weird?? We are also set at RB with three deep with great-potentially very good-good RBs. Isn't that also weird? Let's get that Oline together and we really do have a contender here.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You don't agree and on the basis of one preseason game want a change at QB.

again - this is ridiculous and completely ignoring my argument. My argument has nothign to do with ONE preseason game - my argument has everything to do with history and history shows that the faster a high number one draft pick gets on the field, the fast he's goingtoo take you to the playoffs, PERIOD.

But hey, if you want to project stupidity on to me like you do above, well, whatever. It's par for the course around here.

 

[football karma]

I just don't think we have that great of a shot at the playoffs this year - on paper the Hawks, SOMEONE FROM THE NFC NORTH, the Falcons, the Giants, the Skins, The Cowboys, The Bucs and The Panthers are all better than us - right there that's 8 teams for six slots - I think the playoffs are a prayer this year and personally, I'd rather see the 13-3 mark Peyton put up or the 11-5 and a Super Bowl that Big Ben put up OR Eli's 10-6, all in their second years over Palmer's 8-8.

Cheese, you are probably right, although I am not sold on the Bucs.

That being said, the NFC east and south teams all have to play each other within their divisions.

The Cards may finish second in the division with a 4-2 or 5-1 divison record vs a 3-3 record for the second place teams in the NFC East and South.

At that point, it could very well come down to tie-breakers, where the division record helps as it is also a part of the conference record.

I am not convinced that to make the playoffs, the Cards have to win the west. At the same time, they could finish 10-6 and like the Chargers, miss the playoffs on a tiebreaker.

 

[Renz]

Cheese, you are probably right, although I am not sold on the Bucs.

Also, WASH is 0-3 this preseason, outscored 87-17.

Atlanta isn't going to be that strong IMO.

The NFC North might be the weakest division in the league. At first glance, only MINN might be better than us.

I'm not saying we should be a playoff favorite or anything, but we have a real shot at a Wild Card if things fall into place and we get off to a good start which could happen since we get SF and STL both at home in the first three games.