Mavs @ Suns Game 6 - 6/3/2006 -Scouting Report

[KingLouieLouie]

"No sense in trading Marion.. he's still the best complementary player in the NBA.. provides some many of the intangibles...."



Sorry but Diaw is going to be getting PAID this offseason, and he deserves it.

That means we now cant afford to pay a complementary player max money anymore if we want to build a legit contender and not a team that gets beat every year in the WCF.

The Suns dont have to necessarily break the bank for Diaw at this time... He impressed in a small sample-size.. if he indeed does bulk-up and adds some more post-up and aggressive inside moves into his aresenal... pounds the board with more frequency.. then he will warrant such a contract.... Never invest on someone who could turn-out to be a MAJOR fluke.....

The Suns will be title contender with Amare and KT back... Marion would no longer be the 2nd or 3rd option on offense.. he can go back to playing the dirty game that he's fully capable.... He's such a multi-dimensional player.. but was asked to do too much this post-season w/out Amare and KT and then in this series since Bell went down.....

True... he doesnt completely deserve his max-deal.. but why would Minnesota trade away possibly the best player in the league for Marion? That wouldnt make sense whatsoever from their stand-point.. even if Barbosa would be included in the package (which the Suns wont part with Diaw.. unless they somehow manage to get a true PG this offseason to spell Nash.. which is rather slim).....

No sense in breaking this team apart since they managed to do the remarkable.. with their resiliency..... Everything will perfectly fall into place for the Suns in '06-'07.. never lose faith regardless....

 

[Chaplin]

So whats your point? Because he makes money he should do better then the MVP Nash even without KT and Amare for the majority of this playoff run.

We started asking him to cover up for the loss of Amare he did fine but when KT went down, they started to ask him for making up for that too.



As much as I love Diaw he hasn't earned being given the 3rd option yet. One good year does not a player make.

He could be another JJ or he could simple be another Q ... remember that guy. How is he doing with the Knicks



Or we can do something crazy like keep both. When the problem for your team has been injury problems, isn't it usually wise to make sure the team is as deep as possible so that you can make a run on it next year.

It just seems some people don't understand that a) depth for this team is an absolute must and b) massive turnover of the roster AGAIN isn't the answer for everything.

One of the problems the Colangelos always had was they wouldn't just leave the damn team alone. This team took one of the best teams in the NBA to 6 games with 3 out of its 5 starters missing.



Amare may not and probably will not be 100% next year at any point of the year. The big man we would put into the lineup is the same one we had on the bench for this damn series ... Kurt Thomas and besides the point people on here have to quit acting like good big men can be easily found when the rest of the league is deperate for them.

Its not exactly like we can go to BIG Men R Us and just a find a starting center. We have to have a lot of damn luck to find one or to have one land in your lap

If the Suns lose next year with Amare, Marion and the rest of the team healthy then so be it. The financial burden of Diaw and LB would more then likely kick in and we have a reason to trade the guy. But until that point ... add pieces through the draft and FA but leave the rest of the damn team ALONE

This post is terrific. It's basically common sense that only 10% of this board actually understands.

1) You want a legit big man? Uh, we have one already. His name is Kurt Thomas. And he will be much more effective next year than he was the 3 games he was available this postseason.

2) I am in support of a fantasy Garnett for Marion trade, but since that will never happen, my first prioriity for this team is to keep it together. Use the picks we have to build up the bench, try to figure out the Tim Thomas situation and go into next season with a very similar lineup It's that simple. No need for major tweaking like getting rid of Marion, which MOST LIKELY would produce 2 average players and a draft pick or two.

3) Diaw still has a lot to prove. If Amare comes back strong, he will be a terrific 4 for this team. Marion and Diaw would compliment Amare extremely well. That frontcourt will be probably pound-for-pound the best in the NBA.

Here is my most realistic projection and want for next year:

Starting 5:
Nash
Bell
Marion
Diaw
Amare

Key Bench Players:
Tim Thomas
Kurt Thomas
Barbosa
James Jones
Draft Pick #1
Draft Pick #2

That's 11 players, and if we can conceivable sign Tim Thomas, I would be happy with just one semi-productive draft pick, making us 10 deep.

 

[elindholm]

As much as I love Diaw he hasn't earned being given the 3rd option yet. One good year does not a player make.

Diaw's fundamentals are miles beyond Marion's. He sees the floor better, has better footwork, and has better form on his jump shot. Marion is stronger and better defensively, but that can be overcome.

Diaw may not have shown that he can be a long-term third option, but he was clearly the second or even the first option throughout most of these playoffs.

It just seems some people don't understand that a) depth for this team is an absolute must and b) massive turnover of the roster AGAIN isn't the answer for everything.

I agree with both points. But trading Marion, in most scenarios, would improve the Suns' depth, because they'd get multiple players for him and/or have the cap room to retain Tim Thomas.

If Marion is not traded, I can guarantee that Tim Thomas will not be back. There just isn't room for him in the payroll.

If Stoudemire and Kurt Thomas come back at all, next year's team is going to look much different anyway. That's unfortunate, but it's inevitable. So if they're going to make changes, why not make more of them, if it improves the team and makes them stronger for the long term?

 

[NastyOne]

So whats your point? Because he makes money he should do better then the MVP Nash even without KT and Amare for the majority of this playoff run.

We started asking him to cover up for the loss of Amare he did fine but when KT went down, they started to ask him for making up for that too.



As much as I love Diaw he hasn't earned being given the 3rd option yet. One good year does not a player make.

He could be another JJ or he could simple be another Q ... remember that guy. How is he doing with the Knicks



Or we can do something crazy like keep both. When the problem for your team has been injury problems, isn't it usually wise to make sure the team is as deep as possible so that you can make a run on it next year.

It just seems some people don't understand that a) depth for this team is an absolute must and b) massive turnover of the roster AGAIN isn't the answer for everything.

One of the problems the Colangelos always had was they wouldn't just leave the damn team alone. This team took one of the best teams in the NBA to 6 games with 3 out of its 5 starters missing.



Amare may not and probably will not be 100% next year at any point of the year. The big man we would put into the lineup is the same one we had on the bench for this damn series ... Kurt Thomas and besides the point people on here have to quit acting like good big men can be easily found when the rest of the league is deperate for them.

Its not exactly like we can go to BIG Men R Us and just a find a starting center. We have to have a lot of damn luck to find one or to have one land in your lap

If the Suns lose next year with Amare, Marion and the rest of the team healthy then so be it. The financial burden of Diaw and LB would more then likely kick in and we have a reason to trade the guy. But until that point ... add pieces through the draft and FA but leave the rest of the damn team ALONE

We're not the New York Knicks, we dont have that much money to play with.

There is noway we can afford Stoudemire,Nash,Marion,Bell and Diaw's new contract and still put a winning team on the floor.

Unless you want a depleted bench.

Cause thats what will happen when we have to trade Kurt Thomas and Jones while letting Tim Thomas walk this offseason and Barbosa after next season.

We have a chance at Moving Marion and getting more than one legit piece in return.

Financially its just smarter to move him this offseason.

 

[Chaplin]

If Marion is not traded, I can guarantee that Tim Thomas will not be back. There just isn't room for him in the payroll.

Not exactly true. If for some inconceivable reason Tim Thomas really wants to be back, we can easilly sign him for a one-year contract, since Boris and Leandro's extensions wouldn't kick in until 2007-2008.

 

[elindholm]

If for some inconceivable reason Tim Thomas really wants to be back, we can easilly sign him for a one-year contract, since Boris and Leandro's extensions wouldn't kick in until 2007-2008.

That's true. I would think that Thomas would want some long-term security in exchange for taking a big pay cut, but maybe he's been smart about the money he's made already. If he REALLY wants to stay with the team and see if they can make a title run with the current gropu intact, he could agree to a one-year deal.

So let me say I can "almost" guarantee that Tim Thomas won't be back if Marion isn't traded.

 

[Chaplin]

So let me say I can "almost" guarantee that Tim Thomas won't be back if Marion isn't traded.

 

[NastyOne]

Not exactly true. If for some inconceivable reason Tim Thomas really wants to be back, we can easilly sign him for a one-year contract, since Boris and Leandro's extensions wouldn't kick in until 2007-2008.

Tim wants to stay in Phoenix for a longtime

So what im getting from his quotes is that he doesnt care about the money to much, but the years in the contract.

To expect him to signup for one year and risk injury is not going to happen.

Move Marion and resign Tim Thomas for 4 years 16Million 4mil per.

But there is noway we can build a bench with Marion on this team.

One of Stoudemire,Nash or Marion would have to be moved, so guess which one is the odd man out?

 

[Chaplin]

They are not going to trade Marion to accomodate Tim Thomas. That's crazy talk.

 

[NastyOne]

They are not going to trade Marion to accomodate Tim Thomas. That's crazy talk.

Its not to accommodate Tim Thomas

Its to build a deep team, which we won't beable to do with Marion being the highest paid player on the team.

Our style of play needs fresh reliable bodies off the bench, and Marion is starting to eat up too much capspace to allow that.

No need to keep Marion when Diaw is turning into a better fit at SF than Marion.

Shawn could bring back not only alot of talent, but also much needed caproom.

 

[Evil Ash]

We're not the New York Knicks, we dont have that much money to play with.

There is noway we can afford Stoudemire,Nash,Marion,Bell and Diaw's new contract and still put a winning team on the floor.

Unless you want a depleted bench.

Cause thats what will happen when we have to trade Kurt Thomas and Jones while letting Tim Thomas walk this offseason and Barbosa after next season.

We have a chance at Moving Marion and getting more than one legit piece in return.

Financially its just smarter to move him this offseason.

Only Amare's extension kicks in next year. Diaw's and LB's would come the year after that

In short, we don't pay that much more money next year. Nice try though

 

[Evil Ash]

Tim wants to stay in Phoenix for a longtime

So what im getting from his quotes is that he doesnt care about the money to much, but the years in the contract.

To expect him to signup for one year and risk injury is not going to happen.

Move Marion and resign Tim Thomas for 4 years 16Million 4mil per.

But there is noway we can build a bench with Marion on this team.

One of Stoudemire,Nash or Marion would have to be moved, so guess which one is the odd man out?

You do know that if you trade Marion that more then likely you are getting the same amount of salary back in return, right?

Why is it when people come up with these dream scenarios they also forget to mention that part for some reason?

Again, we'd be going backwards and praying that every player that we get in return can contribute to this team in the short term but have short contracts so they don't effect us the long term

Good luck with that

 

[elindholm]

You do know that if you trade Marion that more then likely you are getting the same amount of salary back in return, right?

Says who? The Suns could trade him to a team with cap space or for an expiring contract.

 

[Evil Ash]

You do know that if you trade Marion that more then likely you are getting the same amount of salary back in return, right?

Says who? The Suns could trade him to a team with cap space or for an expiring contract.

If we did that we aren't improving this team next year and it would just be a salary dump.

People on here want to get rid of Marion's contract while at the same time improving the roster. Can't have it both ways

 

[elindholm]

If we did that we aren't improving this team next year and it would just be a salary dump.

Trading Joe Johnson was, in some respects, a salary dump. And look what happened. The Suns got Diaw and Jones, then had playing time available for Tim Thomas when he went on the market. There are lots of ways to improve a team.

Barring Chaplin's unlikely one-year scenario, Tim Thomas is gone unless the Suns trade Marion. So any Marion trade, in effect, includes keeping Thomas as part of the package.

 

[Evil Ash]

If we did that we aren't improving this team next year and it would just be a salary dump.

Trading Joe Johnson was, in some respects, a salary dump. And look what happened. The Suns got Diaw and Jones, then had playing time available for Tim Thomas when he went on the market. There are lots of ways to improve a team.

Barring Chaplin's unlikely one-year scenario, Tim Thomas is gone unless the Suns trade Marion. So any Marion trade, in effect, includes keeping Thomas as part of the package.

True but do you really want to pull off a trade an Allstar for a maybe (whatever the heck somebody trades us which may or may not turn out like we lucked out with Diaw) and keep Tim Thomas and consider that an improvement?

People seem to forget that even the Suns FO office has admitted that they didn't think Diaw would be this good.

Way too risky IMO. If they fail to win it all with Marion, Amare and the rest of the team next year then trade Marion. However trading Marion, having more roster turnover, and praying for a miracle that the player you traded for can contribute now and doesn't cost much isn't what I consider to be a wise way to improve the team

 

[elindholm]

Any move has risks. The Suns can't afford to wait for something that's guaranteed to work, because that never comes.

What bothers me the most is that Dallas got away with ignoring Marion. I don't think Avery Johnson and his staff spent more than five minutes asking themselves, "What are we going to do about Marion?" The guarded him with the likes of Stackhouse and (in tonight's game) Terry and got away with it.

What good is an All-Star who won't punish mismatches? The Suns need players that will make defenses react. The Mavericks had to react to Nash, Diaw, Thomas, and Barbosa, but not to Marion. He didn't make their task any harder at all.

 

[Evil Ash]

Any move has risks. The Suns can't afford to wait for something that's guaranteed to work, because that never comes.

What bothers me the most is that Dallas got away with ignoring Marion. I don't think Avery Johnson and his staff spent more than five minutes asking themselves, "What are we going to do about Marion?" The guarded him with the likes of Stackhouse and (in tonight's game) Terry and got away with it.

What good is an All-Star who won't punish mismatches? The Suns need players that will make defenses react. The Mavericks had to react to Nash, Diaw, Thomas, and Barbosa, but not to Marion. He didn't make their task any harder at all.

I'm not saying I'm not pissed on Marion's effort tonight because I am. I'm pretty much pissed at the whole team's lack of effort especially in the 2nd half

However trading Marion just for the sake of trading him is just a step in the wrong direction. Maybe we get a miracle where something like Diaw comes along but I have my doubts.

I want this team to improve but a salary dump does not improve them really in any way. Besides the point I still don't understand why keeping Marion or trading Marion is going to stop us from using our MLE (the max we can give TT anyways) and bringing TT back. We'd be over the cap with or without him thanks to the extension of Amare going into effect next year

 

[elindholm]

Besides the point I still don't understand why keeping Marion or trading Marion is going to stop us from using our MLE (the max we can give TT anyways) and bringing TT back. We'd be over the cap with or without him thanks to the extension of Amare going into effect next year

Luxury tax, unless Thomas takes only a one-year deal, which is incredibly unlikely.

 

[panfolk]

Its not to accommodate Tim Thomas

Its to build a deep team, which we won't beable to do with Marion being the highest paid player on the team.

Our style of play needs fresh reliable bodies off the bench, and Marion is starting to eat up too much capspace to allow that.

No need to keep Marion when Diaw is turning into a better fit at SF than Marion.

Shawn could bring back not only alot of talent, but also much needed caproom.

I've watched 2/3 of the Suns games this year... not enough to call myself a diehard fan I'm sure. Anyways... when have we seen Diaw playing at SF? It gets fuzzy assessing roles on the Suns but Most of the minutes I've seen had Diaw guarding a big and playing offensively like a point power forward. Not to be nitpicky I'm just not sure on this one.