Maybe letting Amare go wasn't such a bad idea

[95pro]

I listened to that interview with the Knicks beat writer and even though I still think Amare's knees has something to do with it the guy made a convincing argument about Carmelo. He said the offense this year is run through Carmelo and that Amare is no longer the go to guy. He feels it has impacted Amare's game.

He basically said what many of you are saying. Carmelo is incompatible with the team and he feels the main reason Amare's numbers are down.

i havent watched any interviews or ready anything regarding the knicks and their awful season.

the only thing i have watched are some of the knicks games lol.
its pretty obvious, bad knees or not, that the knicks dont have a plan as a team. the only plan is to dump it into melo and hopefully everyone else gets going.

and im also comparing amare's knicks pre-melo, to the melo's knicks as well.

 

[Lorenzo]

I actually think amare should have never left phx. he was the main scoring option and played with the best offensive pg in the game(or one of the best). amare is a great scorer and has some iso to his game. but a lot of his points in phx came from nash. in new york he has to do everything himself and melo is basically today's allen iverson. extremely talented and is extremely popular, but will probably not be the best teammate on the floor. I'm glad he plays for the NBA team that I don't root for. how can you explain denver improving the min he leaves?

I think for amare this was a case where he thought the grass was greener and found out that he had a great thing in phoenix if he would have just remained loyal. for dirk this was the same thing in dallas. for a while it looked like he was thinking about leaving, but he stayed and dallas surprised everyone by sweeping the lakers.


chandler is a role player. he did all the dirty work for dallas and did a darn good job of it. he is not a scorer and was actually the last option when he is on the floor offensively. he is mostly a lob dunker at best. the knicks overpaid for him based on hype from the media. he should not be getting paid like an allstar because he is not one and makes no impact in games when he plays against the elite big men in the league. he is effective in guarding skinny big guys like chris bosh, KG, or lemarcus aldridge because he is stronger than them and is quick. I would have loved for cuban to resign chandler because he was still the best center in the dirk era, but cuban paid a price for overpaying dampier then haywood. he couldn't afford to do it again with chandler. cubes is going after the real star players this upcoming free agency.

 

[JustWinBaby]

In my not-so-humble opinion, the Chandler acquisition was a great one - considering the team's make-up before the acquisition. The Knicks were clearly planning to build around Melo and Amar'e. Whether or not that pairing turns out to be a good one is still to be determined, but that's a little bit beside the point here, because no matter what our opinions might be, obviously the Knicks front office made those moves last season believing they would pan off in the long run. So, the Chandler signing was designed to give them tenacity, rebounding and shot-blocking on the interior for the 76 games (or 60, this season) in which Amar'e Stoudemire doesn't bring those qualities to the court. If the media is going to bill Chandler as the third member of the Knicks' "big three", then his play is going to disappoint. However, if you look at the teams that Chandler has been on, they have so often been one of those surprise teams that sort of comes out of nowhere. I think the Knicks brass envisioned him filling the same type of role that he did when he was in Dallas or in New Orleans - Dirk Nowitzki and Chris Paul are going to get all of the accolades, but Chandler gives them a little bit of a nudge in the right direction so they can really shine.

As for the Knicks' pg situation, it's bleak, but Chauncey Billups and a $14 million contract was not going to help. He's really just not very good anymore, but he attempts the same type of plays as if he is. He jogs up the court, dribbles for a few seconds, passes it, and then if he gets it back with anything less than 12 seconds on the shot clock, he just chucks up a contested 3-pointer from a couple of feet behind the line. But, I think people are going to be really surprised by what Barron Davis ends up bringing to the team. Even during his overweight days, his team was still much better with him on the court than without him. He looks like he's at least in good shape - I think he grew that hideous neck beard to cover up his chins when he got fat, but looking at him in warm-ups, etc. there is some jaw-line definition that has underneath that has been seriously lacking in recent years. He's a tremendous basketball I.Q. guy, and his on-court presence might just be enough to infuse some much-needed fluidity into D'Antoni's stagnant, muddy offense as it is today.

D'Antoni's stagnant, muddy offense as it is today

What does that mean?

I liked and still like Chandler. Unfortunately their guard play has been horrific not awful. It surely is not D'Antoni's offense it is who is on the court trying to execute it.

The group of Shumpert, Fields, Douglas and Bibby

FG % - 38.3%
3P% - 27.3%
32.6 Pts
10.7 assists (Nash 9.9 by himself)

Think of our backcourt without Steve Nash. That is what New York has supporting a very good Front Court.

JR Smith would be a major upgrade for them and he appears to want to play in New York. He may be nuts and play out of control but I would give him a chance. They really have nothing to lose and he is better than anyone on their roster. Melo also likes him. I expect they might also be interested in Brooks as well. I am still not sure who's property he is when the Chinese season ends. He also would be better than anyone they have on their roster.

I would not count the Knicks out at this point. They need some help but with decent back court play they could become a factor quickly. I doubt Dolan will hessitate to spend the money for anyone that can help.

Unfortunately I think their savior is Baron Davis. It appears that his injury is really serious. I doubt his health will allow him to do what is required.

I hope they do trade Amare and he ends up in Philadelphia, that is a rumor. I think he would be fantastic with that group.

Amare for Brand straight up - I think that puts Phillie in the hunt to get out of the East.

 

[mojorizen7]

This team would be in better shape(in terms of having a future)with a no name PG feeding Amare points rather than Nash feeding a crew of no names en route to a losing record.

Nashball = one way of running your offense and your defense being tied to the talent that can play with Nash on offense. Hope for the best and put your Dfensive legs between your ass.

 

[Phrazbit]

The reason why I think the Chandler signing was dumb is not because he is a bad player, that he is a bad fit with what they had. Amare needs space in the lane to be at his best on offense, Chandler being on the court denies him that. And more importantly, to get Chandler they had to go into the year with no point guard on their roster, and now are praying Baron Davis' corpse can save them. Yes, Billups would have been overpaid but having no point guard has destroyed that team and makes D'Antoni an utterly worthless coach. In my opinion, for the money they would have been better off keeping Billups or pushing for another PG than signing Chandler. Now they have a bad defense AND a bad offense.

After the Knicks season was over they picked up a 14 million dollar option on Billups, then used the amnesty provision on Billups before he ever played another game. The Knicks operate on a level of "stupid" that no other franchise approaches.

 

[JustWinBaby]

The reason why I think the Chandler signing was dumb is not because he is a bad player, that he is a bad fit with what they had. Amare needs space in the lane to be at his best on offense, Chandler being on the court denies him that. And more importantly, to get Chandler they had to go into the year with no point guard on their roster, and now are praying Baron Davis' corpse can save them. Yes, Billups would have been overpaid but having no point guard has destroyed that team and makes D'Antoni an utterly worthless coach. In my opinion, for the money they would have been better off keeping Billups or pushing for another PG than signing Chandler. Now they have a bad defense AND a bad offense.

After the Knicks season was over they picked up a 14 million dollar option on Billups, then used the amnesty provision on Billups before he ever played another game. The Knicks operate on a level of "stupid" that no other franchise approaches.

I agree with all of that

You know it is amazing how Dolan and Sarver have made their teams almost unwatchable so quickly.

Sarver had the Fantastic 4 when he bought the Suns and proceeded to get rid of all the good talent that he was handed. All is left is Steve Nash. The future is in the hands of a very late 2nd round pick.

Dolan hired Donnie Walsh to improve the mess he and Isiah created and just when it was starting to bloom he went stupid and gave away the farm for Melo.

D'Antoni may not be the best coach in history but has served under 2 of the worst owners in the past decade.

 

[Neo]

Stupidity in the Knicks organization did not begin with Thomas. Scott Layden had already put the club in a terrible position back in '01 when he made Allan Houston the second highest paid player in the game.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Stupidity in the Knicks organization did not begin with Thomas. Scott Layden had already put the club in a terrible position back in '01 when he made Allan Houston the second highest paid player in the game.

Agreed

Sarver has done a job on the Suns by himself. He has been the constant so he deserves the blame not the other popular targets, IMO.

 

[slinslin]

Letting Amare go was the right decision but it was negated by

- not agressively rebuilding
- signing Frye, Warrick and Childress who equate to a worse deal than what Amare is now

 

[95pro]

Letting Amare go was the right decision but it was negated by

- not agressively rebuilding
- signing Frye, Warrick and Childress who equate to a worse deal than what Amare is now

frye is kind of an okay signing. not bad, but not good.

whats terrible is what we are getting out of childress for what we are putting into him.

 

[Lorenzo]

I just wish amare would have stayed in phoenix. I think he thought the grass was greener in NY and obviously didn't think about the fact that the NYK problems with spending. people claim our govt has spending problems, it could be worse. you could be a knicks fan.

I'm sad to see nash spending his last few years that are left with no other great players on his team. amare and him were one of the best offensive combos I've ever seen. better than dirk and nash when they played together. I still think the best thing that ever happened to dirk was nash leaving.

 

[JustWinBaby]

I just wish amare would have stayed in phoenix. I think he thought the grass was greener in NY and obviously didn't think about the fact that the NYK problems with spending. people claim our govt has spending problems, it could be worse. you could be a knicks fan.

I'm sad to see nash spending his last few years that are left with no other great players on his team. amare and him were one of the best offensive combos I've ever seen. better than dirk and nash when they played together. I still think the best thing that ever happened to dirk was nash leaving.

I miss Amare and watching him run the pick and Roll with Steve.

 

[jagu]

I miss Amare and watching him run the pick and Roll with Steve.

Hell yes. I do miss this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW7yS-SdvjY

I still don't miss Amare a lot because we weren't going to win a ring with him.

 

[Neo]

But I don't miss this http://www.youtube.com/v/pUyYo5St2tY&hl=en&fs=1

Or this . . . http://www.youtube.com/v/klO09ftAWyw&hl=en&fs=1

 

[JustWinBaby]

Hell yes. I do miss this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW7yS-SdvjY

I still don't miss Amare a lot because we weren't going to win a ring with him.

This is what I really don't understand.

We weren't going to win a ring with him.

Exactly how are we in a better position without him to win a ring?

I just don't see it.

Was he the main reason that we did not win a ring during his stay in phoenix?

I don't think so.

I understand not wanting to take a chance on his knees holding up over the length of the contract. But unless we get lucky in the draft it is highly doubtful there will be a better player on this roster anytime soon.

Our overall talent level went down considerably with his departure.

Now if we land Drummond or Davis this summer in the draft or are able to sign someone like Dwight Howard in Free Agency, we could be back in busines. I hope we do.

 

[Gaddabout]

Amare, like no other player I can think of, has performance swings that align with his confidence. If he's getting fed balls a lot for dunks, his all-around play becomes all-pro. If he's not getting the ball, he takes a dump on the court.

There are a lot of players LIKE that, but I can't think of any who have such extreme swings like him. It's ridiculous, and it's been somewhat of a relief the Suns don't have so much cap space resting on a player like that.

 

[Gaddabout]

This is what I really don't understand.

We weren't going to win a ring with him.

Exactly how are we in a better position without him to win a ring?

It's called cap space. Amare demanded No. 1 money when he's clearly not a No. 1 on a good team. If you keep Amare, you can't another elite player. It forces the issue that you either believe Amare is one of the elite players at any position (he's not, regardless of his highlights) or you don't and you let someone else take that gamble.

I can't help that current management had no idea what to do with their cap space or understand a commitment to drafting, but that's another issue. The first issue was Amare and cap space.

 

[JustWinBaby]

It's called cap space. Amare demanded No. 1 money when he's clearly not a No. 1 on a good team. If you keep Amare, you can't another elite player. It forces the issue that you either believe Amare is one of the elite players at any position (he's not, regardless of his highlights) or you don't and you let someone else take that gamble.

I can't help that current management had no idea what to do with their cap space or understand a commitment to drafting, but that's another issue. The first issue was Amare and cap space.

I respect everyones opinion and arguments to not sign him.

Yeah he was too expensive and too much of a risk, I get it. I understand the reasoning not to sign him.

However to say we are closer to a Championship without him, just is not true. Posters continue to try to say you cannot win a Championship with Amare. That is what I disagree with. Of course if he blows out a knee again, you can't. If healthy I really think you can.

Would we have won a Championship in his last year with us if we had Gortat at Center rather than Robin Lopez?

Before you say it. Yeah I think Nash could have made it work for both Gortat and Amare. I think Amare and Gortat would have loved playing together. Amare is not a shot hog. He rarely complained about shot attempts unless the team was struggling. Most wanted him to get more attempts because of the high percentage he shot from the field and line. Nash would probably average 15 assist a night with those 2 on the court with him.

Amare always needed a Gortat alongside him. Now Gortat needs an Amare type player alongside him. Unfortunately when we do find that player Nash will probably be in another city or on Social Security.

Hopefully we find our replacement for Amare Sooner than later.

 

[jagu]

I never said we are closer to a ring without him. We are probably closer to a ring with him but that doesn't mean that ring is attainable. With his bloated contract we'd be screwed for years. With the leaving of Amare what had to be done was rebuilding. We are just in limbo right now..

 

[Phrazbit]

I dont think Amare needed a center with him; at least in the sense of 'Amare being his most productive.'

Amare needs space to move inside, he isnt going to back anyone down, his back to the basket game is basically non-existent. Amare was at his best offensively when he was the "center" matched up against slower big men who lacked interior help because of floor spacing.

Tons of Amare's points came off of him receiving the ball near the elbow and then trying to attack to the right past his man, right now that play isnt there because of a combination of lost speed and bad spacing, as a result Amare is basically a jump shooter... and, because he isnt as much of a threat to drive past, guys arnt giving him space on his shot, so he is a BAD jump shooter.

 

[JustWinBaby]

I dont think Amare needed a center with him; at least in the sense of 'Amare being his most productive.'

Amare needs space to move inside, he isnt going to back anyone down, his back to the basket game is basically non-existent. Amare was at his best offensively when he was the "center" matched up against slower big men who lacked interior help because of floor spacing.

Tons of Amare's points came off of him receiving the ball near the elbow and then trying to attack to the right past his man, right now that play isnt there because of a combination of lost speed and bad spacing, as a result Amare is basically a jump shooter... and, because he isnt as much of a threat to drive past, guys arnt giving him space on his shot, so he is a BAD jump shooter.

Amare may not have needed a center, but we did.

 

[Phrazbit]

Amare may not have needed a center, but we did.

Yeah, Id agree with that.

 

[BC867]

Amare may not have needed a center, but we did.

Amar'e and we both needed him to not be our only big man on the court. Amar'e, three Wings and a Point Guard was a handicap vs. contending teams.

 

[Gaddabout]

Bottom line, Barkley had it right: Rebounding IS Defense. And Amare never did enough of it. That's why you can't afford to give him so much money at the 4. Never would have won a championship with him as the No. 1 player. Ever.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Bottom line, Barkley had it right: Rebounding IS Defense. And Amare never did enough of it. That's why you can't afford to give him so much money at the 4. Never would have won a championship with him as the No. 1 player. Ever.

Barkley surely is an expert on defense and winning championships, considering all the Championships he won and defensive awards he received during his career. He also is a coaching expert, even though he has never been a coach. To his defense he has said many times that he is not an expert. He just has opinions, just like you and everyone else.

Add Chandler to the last Suns team that went to the WCF, Amare and the Suns probably win the Championship.

We would have NEVER won a Championship with him as our starting Center and didn't.

That is my expert opinion.

It obviously disagrees with your opinion. So be it.