McCown

[Harry]

I wrote the following paragraph, posted it and then deleted it before anyone read it.

I think it's more than coincidence that King goes in right as the Cards face two of the toughest pass rushing teams they will see all year. There was little to be gained from McCown playing in those two games. I expect King to take another beating this week and then we’ll see McCown back in at Detroit.

I deleted it so I could have some time to respond to the article on King. I couldn't disagree more with the premise. I don't believe King was Green's secret weapon. IMO he was always seen as a backup; nothing more. I also don't think the McCown issue is dead. I think Green is just now seeing McCown had wasted most of his prior time under Mac. He was little more than a rookie when he started this season. That isn't to say McCown is next year's starter. I earlier mentioned Warner who apparently scared everyone to death. I don't think Bledsoe would be consider. He is winning but clearly not the player he once was. Trent Green may be available, as may the other Trent, Mr. Dilfer. I think Navarre and any draft choices are certainly out of the question. If McCown doesn't move forward, Green will not experiment any further.

As to drafting Fitzgerald, Manning was already taken. Rothlisberger was passed by quite a few teams besides the Cards. There is no question he looks great, but Fitz was the sure thing and the Cards had to be certain with that pick. Green made the correct choice. I also think Russ may be right in his thinking that Boldin might be traded, especially if he doesn't appear to gain back his speed. There is serious question as to how he fits into Green's offense if he has lost even half a step. No question he is valuable, but he and Fitz are more alike than I think even Green suspected. Clearly the contract extension is also a major concern.

 

[red desert]

You're scaring me with the Boldin talk. Enough.

 

[jstadvl]

I wonder

Harry. Maybe. I don't think things are as rosey as we might think. There has to be a trust between a player and a coach and I think Green blew it with McCown. He'll constantly be looking over his shoulder if he gets back in.

 

[ajcardfan]

He'll constantly be looking over his shoulder if he gets back in.

Honestly, that's exactly how I think he's played most of this season.

 

[jstadvl]

Surely

after the Atlanta game, I would have to agree. I still think he'll be ok. But I don't think Green did any good in the locker room. And I'd be willing to bet some players feel that way.

 

[Stout]

Harry. Maybe. I don't think things are as rosey as we might think. There has to be a trust between a player and a coach and I think Green blew it with McCown. He'll constantly be looking over his shoulder if he gets back in.

MCCOWN has a trust issue with GREEN? Man, I sure in the heck would say it damn well better be the other way around!!! McCown's played like doggy doo for most of the season, seeing smaaaall progress every once in a while and horrendous play the rest of the time, even regression in most of the games. Now that he's benched, MCCOWN'S supposed to lose trust in GREEN? Wow! That's a bold statement!

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Wow. I completely agree with you Harry. This builds off your earlier posts about Green over-estimating the talent he had on the team prior to the season.

It will be interesting to see how several things pan out on offense for the remainder of the season - QB is still unfilled for the long term, RB will probably be a battle for the starting slot next year, WR situation - but I think the YAC for the remaining games will help Boldin differentiate himself from Fitzgerald (hopefully), OLine shake down for next year.

The only thing we are set at is head coach

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I've often said that a couple of weeks on the bench might have helped plummer.

I know for a fact that Lomax got benched occassionally, and he would come back with some of his best performances. So, McCown still may get another shot, and he may play better than before.


With that said, We as fans, need to support Denny's decisions (as long as we think the franchise is moving in the right direction), and therefore need to support Shaun King today against the Jets.

 

[football karma]

I've often said that a couple of weeks on the bench might have helped plummer.

I know for a fact that Lomax got benched occassionally, and he would come back with some of his best performances. So, McCown still may get another shot, and he may play better than before.


With that said, We as fans, need to support Denny's decisions (as long as we think the franchise is moving in the right direction), and therefore need to support Shaun King today against the Jets.

A couple parrallels--

Matt Hasselback showed up in Seattle after a few seasons as back up in Green Bay and some awesome looking pre season appearances. Cant think of a better QB training ground -- yet he really struggled for almost two seasons in Seattle -- being benched about the same time into his inaugural season with Seattle, and not getting his job back until Dilfer was hurt. Was better but just okay even after his return, and then later things really started to click. Went to the pro-bowl the next year.

Drew Brees was horrible for most of his two seasons, regularly getting pulled and replaced by Flutie. This in spite of having arguably the best RB in the league to take pressure off the passing game. Brees was so bad the Chargers felt compelled to take Phillip Rivers high in the draft. Now Brees is having an awesome season.

I think it is wayyyyy too early to give up on McCown. At the same time, I think sitting him for a few weeks, particulalry if he does have a concussion, is a good move.

I have been concerned in recent weeks about a growing bad habit of Josh's to resort to the throw off the back foot when feeling even some pressure ---I think this is from being hit too much. That volume of hits turned Plummer from a guy who would stand in and deliver the ball to a guy who would lob off the back foot --

Finally -- it wouldnt hurt Josh to be able to watch a couple games to reflect on what is going on.

 

[Stout]

A couple parrallels--

Matt Hasselback showed up in Seattle after a few seasons as back up in Green Bay and some awesome looking pre season appearances. Cant think of a better QB training ground -- yet he really struggled for almost two seasons in Seattle -- being benched about the same time into his inaugural season with Seattle, and not getting his job back until Dilfer was hurt. Was better but just okay even after his return, and then later things really started to click. Went to the pro-bowl the next year.

Drew Brees was horrible for most of his two seasons, regularly getting pulled and replaced by Flutie. This in spite of having arguably the best RB in the league to take pressure off the passing game. Brees was so bad the Chargers felt compelled to take Phillip Rivers high in the draft. Now Brees is having an awesome season.

I think it is wayyyyy too early to give up on McCown. At the same time, I think sitting him for a few weeks, particulalry if he does have a concussion, is a good move.

I have been concerned in recent weeks about a growing bad habit of Josh's to resort to the throw off the back foot when feeling even some pressure ---I think this is from being hit too much. That volume of hits turned Plummer from a guy who would stand in and deliver the ball to a guy who would lob off the back foot --

Finally -- it wouldnt hurt Josh to be able to watch a couple games to reflect on what is going on.

Problem is, we need to decide what to do with him after THIS season. We don't have the time on his contract to wait. Do we tender him? If so, how high a tender (he's a RFA). His play hasn't warranted a dime. Does he still have enough potential to pay for and HOPE he pans out? I'm not so sure, but ya never know.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

A couple parrallels--

Matt Hasselback showed up in Seattle after a few seasons as back up in Green Bay and some awesome looking pre season appearances. Cant think of a better QB training ground -- yet he really struggled for almost two seasons in Seattle -- being benched about the same time into his inaugural season with Seattle, and not getting his job back until Dilfer was hurt. Was better but just okay even after his return, and then later things really started to click. Went to the pro-bowl the next year.

Drew Brees was horrible for most of his two seasons, regularly getting pulled and replaced by Flutie. This in spite of having arguably the best RB in the league to take pressure off the passing game. Brees was so bad the Chargers felt compelled to take Phillip Rivers high in the draft. Now Brees is having an awesome season.

I think it is wayyyyy too early to give up on McCown. At the same time, I think sitting him for a few weeks, particulalry if he does have a concussion, is a good move.

I have been concerned in recent weeks about a growing bad habit of Josh's to resort to the throw off the back foot when feeling even some pressure ---I think this is from being hit too much. That volume of hits turned Plummer from a guy who would stand in and deliver the ball to a guy who would lob off the back foot --

Finally -- it wouldnt hurt Josh to be able to watch a couple games to reflect on what is going on.

I agree, including that it is too early to give up on McCown. I honestly believe (and I know I'll be pummeled by the several on the board for this)
that he should be given the rest of the season, through maybe 8 or 10 games next year to prove himself.

Stout:

"Not worth a dime"? Come on man.

 

[conraddobler]

Problem is, we need to decide what to do with him after THIS season. We don't have the time on his contract to wait. Do we tender him? If so, how high a tender (he's a RFA). His play hasn't warranted a dime. Does he still have enough potential to pay for and HOPE he pans out? I'm not so sure, but ya never know.

Well his lack of production makes him cheaper to sign and he's had time in the system.

Honestly I'd be for getting whoever you want and signing him to a deal as the backup and then him having potential is a plus again instead of a really big crapshoot.

He's proven he can win games but isn't setting anything on fire so to me that spells a very valuable backup with upside potential. I think it makes sense.

People will say no way because the other guy will be looking over his shoulder and what not but honestly if you can't beat out McCown's performance to date you aren't a world beater yourself and deserve to worry about your job.

I'd say a New QB via FA or draft, Josh and Navarre would be ok with me.

 

[Stout]

Stout:

"Not worth a dime"? Come on man.

All right, he did manage to win one game after contributing greatly to us being down in that game...he's worth a dime. Nothing more.

Seriously, what's he done of worth this season? He hasn't won games...games have been won in spie of him. So tell me, what makes him valuable?

 

[Crimson Warrior]

All right, he did manage to win one game after contributing greatly to us being down in that game...he's worth a dime. Nothing more.

Seriously, what's he done of worth this season? He hasn't won games...games have been won in spie of him. So tell me, what makes him valuable?

1. Values the ball
2. Good arm
3. Good/great wheels
4. Values the ball

 

[BigRedArk]

Stout

Seriously, what's he done of worth this season? He hasn't won games...games have been won in spie of him. So tell me, what makes him valuable?

He looked pretty good on that beeline pass to Fitz in the Miami game, that took it down to the 3 or so. Then he hit the lob to Fitz again for the gamewinner.

I agree he hasn't set the world on fire this year, but neither has the OL or our running game. The QB can't do it all by himself. He needs some more help I say. Too early to judge. He may turn out to be a 2nd stringer at best but I say resign him and give him some more time.

 

[Duckjake]

Seriously, what's he done of worth this season? He hasn't won games...games have been won in spie of him. So tell me, what makes him valuable?

He looked pretty good on that beeline pass to Fitz in the Miami game, that took it down to the 3 or so. Then he hit the lob to Fitz again for the gamewinner.

I agree he hasn't set the world on fire this year, but neither has the OL or our running game. The QB can't do it all by himself. He needs some more help I say. Too early to judge. He may turn out to be a 2nd stringer at best but I say resign him and give him some more time.

It's a moot point. Both King and McCown have played themselves off the Cards roster next season. I doubt Green will have either one of them back.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

It's a moot point. Both King and McCown have played themselves off the Cards roster next season. I doubt Green will have either one of them back.

I think McCown has earned a spot as a backup with potential. He doesn't lose games, pretty good time management given his experience, pretty accurate. Good enough to keep on with minimal salary and allow to fight for a slot.

 

[conraddobler]

It's a moot point. Both King and McCown have played themselves off the Cards roster next season. I doubt Green will have either one of them back.

I think Josh will be back maybe as a backup but he will be back IMO.

 

[wierwolf]

I think Josh will be back maybe as a backup but he will be back IMO.

I agree. Josh will be back next year if only as a Backup

 

[BigRedArk]

Harry

I also think Russ may be right in his thinking that Boldin might be traded, especially if he doesn't appear to gain back his speed. There is serious question as to how he fits into Green's offense if he has lost even half a step. No question he is valuable, but he and Fitz are more alike than I think even Green suspected. Clearly the contract extension is also a major concern.

What about trading Bryant Johnson in hopes of picking up a more bonafide deep threat either thru the draft or in exchange for another veteran?

 

[conraddobler]

I also think Russ may be right in his thinking that Boldin might be traded, especially if he doesn't appear to gain back his speed. There is serious question as to how he fits into Green's offense if he has lost even half a step. No question he is valuable, but he and Fitz are more alike than I think even Green suspected. Clearly the contract extension is also a major concern.

What about trading Bryant Johnson in hopes of picking up a more bonafide deep threat either thru the draft or in exchange for another veteran?

Bryant isn't worth jack.

To us or anyone else.

Therein lies the problem. Boldin has value. It's declining but he has value and that's the rub.

 

[Russ Smith]

I also think Russ may be right in his thinking that Boldin might be traded, especially if he doesn't appear to gain back his speed. There is serious question as to how he fits into Green's offense if he has lost even half a step. No question he is valuable, but he and Fitz are more alike than I think even Green suspected. Clearly the contract extension is also a major concern.

What about trading Bryant Johnson in hopes of picking up a more bonafide deep threat either thru the draft or in exchange for another veteran?

Johnson has ZERO market value right now. He's done nothing to show that the pre draft reports on him were wrong, drops balls, doesn't run great routes, not explosive.

 

[az1965]

Boldin trade talkes are ridiculous, even more so than the fact that they started to talk about his contract extension just after one season. Let the guy show at least two season the consistent performance worthy of big contract. Also, he was coming of an injury and you need to see if he is the same guy after the injury as he was before.

 

[Wildfire]

On TV they showed a shot of Green and McCown having what can only be discribed and a lively conversation on the side line right before McCown went in to the game.

Anyone else see that and what do you think took place?

 

[conraddobler]

On TV they showed a shot of Green and McCown having what can only be discribed and a lively conversation on the side line right before McCown went in to the game.

Anyone else see that and what do you think took place?

I hope Josh told him something to the effect of I'm going to wing the damn ball if you put me in there.