McCown's skills set better fit for Cards

[Rats]

Yeah only teams like Phili can do that with Westbrook and Owens. Those to were what 90% of the offense

Not this last week. Westbrook barely saw the ball. Davis and TO and a host of others.

 

[Redsz]

Crap yeah right, if you don't want people to be objective about it dont compare the guy to the best Running QB's in the league. It doesn't matter that Josh ran 4.63 and the rest of the QB's were slower.

Straight from the NFL.com prospect profile:

4.59 in the 40-yard dash … 2.7 in the 20-yard dash … 1.64 in the 10-yard dash … 3.9 in the 20-yard shuttle … 6.85 in the three-cone drill … 38.5-inch vertical jump … 10'0" broad jump … 315-pound bench press … 465-pound squat … 330-pound power clean … 30 1/2-inch arm length … 9-inch hands … Right-handed.

Speed absolutley does matter when your making a comparison about their running ability. The fact that Garcia, Culpepper, McNabb and McCown have similar 40 times mean you can draw a comparison and a parallel to them in how they run.

The stats speak for themselve. Your comparing Josh McCown to Daunte Culpepper and McNabb. Neither of them run as much as they did when they came into the league, but still get way more yards rushing then Josh.

Pennington ran for 2 less times then Josh, Chad had 14 more yards. Josh ran 9 more times then Hassle Beck, Josh had 12 more yards. Josh ran 17 more times Bulger, Josh had 13 more yards. Your comparing the top 3 ranked rushing QB's to the 35 ranked rushing QB.

No stats are very deceptive and need to be put in context.

There is no way you can even compare any of Bulger, Hasselbeck or Pennington in terms of pure athlectic ability. That is a freakin' joke. Do you think because Marc Bulger has a better average or more yds that means he is comparable to Josh in athletic ability?

The reason those guys have higher averages or more yds is because the defense doesn't even have to account for them running. They are pocket passers. And when they move out of the pocket to scramble they generally pick up more yds because the defense is not expecting it or accounting for other guys on the field. I don't think you would find any Seahawk, Rams or Jets fans that agree that any of those guys have more speed or mobility than Josh. Your falling into the stat trap.

Ok so Josh made 2 people miss in his career on a run, McNabb and Culpepper make 10 people a game. They are not comparable. Josh is not elusive at all. That is a fact. Did you see Big Bens run against the Pats he made several people miss. He is somewhat elusive. Josh runs in a straight line.

Ugh, I said they are comparable runners. I didn't say he was better or worse. Just comparable. I have seen Josh make people miss, I have seen him use his speed to get on the outside and I have seen him use his speed to pick up first downs eaxactly like Culpepper, McNabb and Garcia did.

 

[Redsz]

He did it against CB's that were selling insurance and weren't even on the 9ers the week before according to G & A. That is pretty tuff to not even being in game shape, to go in and cover someone, let alone Fitz and Boldin.

Then G & A are full of crap again.

The guys covering Boldin and Fitzgerald where Shawntae Spencer, Mike Adams, Derrick Johnson and to an extent Tony Parrish. All of them, bar one (because he is a rookie) had played for the 9ers this year and last year.

 

[CardinalLaw]

Not this last week. Westbrook barely saw the ball. Davis and TO and a host of others.

Last year, Mcnabb seams to be spreading it out alot more this year. Doing a great job at it. Wish he was my fantasy QB, and real one. I just remember seeing ridiculous stats like McNabb threw the ball to those guys 160 times and the next guy was 20 or something. And Td's was some ridiculous number too, like 20+ tds to like 2 before TO got injured. They weren't even trying to throw it to other people before it.

 

[CardinalLaw]

Straight from the NFL.com prospect profile:

4.59 in the 40-yard dash … 2.7 in the 20-yard dash … 1.64 in the 10-yard dash … 3.9 in the 20-yard shuttle … 6.85 in the three-cone drill … 38.5-inch vertical jump … 10'0" broad jump … 315-pound bench press … 465-pound squat … 330-pound power clean … 30 1/2-inch arm length … 9-inch hands … Right-handed.

Speed absolutley does matter when your making a comparison about their running ability. The fact that Garcia, Culpepper, McNabb and McCown have similar 40 times mean you can draw a comparison and a parallel to them in how they run.



No stats are very deceptive and need to be put in context.

There is no way you can even compare any of Bulger, Hasselbeck or Pennington in terms of pure athlectic ability. That is a freakin' joke. Do you think because Marc Bulger has a better average or more yds that means he is comparable to Josh in athletic ability?

The reason those guys have higher averages or more yds is because the defense doesn't even have to account for them running. They are pocket passers. And when they move out of the pocket to scramble they generally pick up more yds because the defense is not expecting it or accounting for other guys on the field. I don't think you would find any Seahawk, Rams or Jets fans that agree that any of those guys have more speed or mobility than Josh. Your falling into the stat trap.



Ugh, I said they are comparable runners. I didn't say he was better or worse. Just comparable. I have seen Josh make people miss, I have seen him use his speed to get on the outside and I have seen him use his speed to pick up first downs eaxactly like Culpepper, McNabb and Garcia did.

Well combine times change from every source you look at.

Sam Houston State’s Josh McCown dominated the Combine testing among quarterbacks, putting on quite a show. His 38 1/2-inch vertical jump, 10-foot broad jump and 4.62-second 40 were tops among quarterbacks.

Yes thats great if he did run a 4.59 it sure is alot closer to 4.62 then it is to 4.4 like you posted before. I just don't understand how you draw comparisons between there running style. I can understand drawing a comparison to there 40 time. Culpepper makes people miss and if he doesnt they just bounce off him, same thing with McNabb. Garcia is just makes people miss, like Vick but not nearly as good. McCown does neither and you can say nothing to prove me otherwise. I watched every single game the guy played in too. I just don't see it. The guy is not a good scrambler. I don't care if he ran 3.05 40, and had a vertical Jump of 15 feet. He definetly doesn't show it off in games, he runs for 3 yards a rush on average he is just not good at it.

Its like comparing every 4.75 40 WR to Boldin, he might run a 4.75 40 but he makes alot more moves, yards, and catches then most 4.75 WR's out there, if not all.

Your falling into a over rated Combine trap. Does Kyle Boller throwing the ball 75 yards on his knees make him a great passer, no. Does a 4.59 40 time make Josh a great runner, no. Guys train just for the combine, Josh was probaly one of them. He probaly worked on his 40 time for 3 months. You think its the same now, you think its the same with pads on.

 

[Redsz]

Yes thats great if he did run a 4.59 it sure is alot closer to 4.62 then it is to 4.4 like you posted before.

Eh, I just wrote 4.4/4.5 because I couldn't recall if he ran a 4.49 or a 4.59 at his workout.

I just don't understand how you draw comparisons between there running style. I can understand drawing a comparison to there 40 time. Culpepper makes people miss and if he doesnt they just bounce off him, same thing with McNabb. Garcia is just makes people miss, like Vick but not nearly as good.

McCown does neither and you can say nothing to prove me otherwise. I watched every single game the guy played in too. I just don't see it. The guy is not a good scrambler. I don't care if he ran 3.05 40, and had a vertical Jump of 15 feet.

How can you not compare something if they have similar traits? They all have comparable running speed which makes a comparison between McNabb, Culpepper, Garcia and McCown valid IMO.

Furthermore, there are many different styles of running. There is no 'right' way to run out there. Josh is no Mike Vick, but I have seen him pull out moves and use his speed to pick up first downs or TD's. You don't call a QB keeper/draw to attempt a 2 point conversion if your QB can't move out there.

He definetly doesn't show it off in games, he runs for 3 yards a rush on average he is just not good at it.

Again, statistics decieve. Kurt Warner is averaging 4.8 YPC, does that make him a good runner? No. Infact he is proburbly furthest from a scrambling QB there is in the NFL. Using this line of thinking, we should be starting Kurt at tailback because he has such a high average per carry.

Furthermore, Josh is actually averaging 4.6 YPC for his career and 6.0 YPC for 2005. Not 3.0. Which really makes this whole line of thinking about yds, YPC etc to illustarate how good a scrambler or a runner a QB is bunk.

Its like comparing every 4.75 40 WR to Boldin, he might run a 4.75 40 but he makes alot more moves, yards, and catches then most 4.75 WR's out there, if not all.

Your falling into a over rated Combine trap. Does Kyle Boller throwing the ball 75 yards on his knees make him a great passer, no. Does a 4.59 40 time make Josh a great runner, no. Guys train just for the combine, Josh was probaly one of them. He probaly worked on his 40 time for 3 months. You think its the same now, you think its the same with pads on.

And you don't think McNabb, Culpepper or Garcia trained to boost their 40 time? Everyone is different with pads on. Not just select guys. Anyway, that is besides the point...

I never said because Josh can run a 4.59 that makes him a 'good' runner. I can see that he is effective at running with my own two eyes. The 40 time was simply one way to make a comparison between the three. Not to say he was better or worse than the afore mentioned QB's.

Again, they have similar 40 times and I have seen Josh make people miss, I have seen him use his speed to get on the outside of defenders and I have seen him use his legs to pick up first downs like Culpepper, McNabb and Garcia did and continue to do. They are absolutley comparable.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think the reason people aren't quick to lump Josh in with McNabb and Culpepper is plain and simple production. Yes Josh is fast but his career high in rushing yardage is 158 in one season, Vick has topped that in one game at least twice, McNabb and Culpepper have rushed for 4 times that much in one season before.

josh is fast but in the past he wasn't very good about knowing when to run, lots of times last year where he had an easy first down but didn't run. Sunday I thought he showed a lot better decision making on when to run, but he clearly still doesn't get the when to slide part. He also still doesn't look downfield when running he's eitehr running, or dumps it off short.

It's a nice weapon to have but in the end Vick is the only Qb in the NFL who actually wins games consistently with his feet. If Josh can use his speed to avoid some sacks and pick up some key first downs that's just fine with me.

 

[jstadvl]

My 2 cents

You have to scheme for Josh somewhat, now that you know he WILL run.
He can take a hit and isn't afraid of a bloody nose, ala Culpepper and McNabb early on.
If McCown has turned the corner, he'll be comparable to any scrambling QB in the league. Right now we can only compare certain aspects of his game to other QBs and unfortunately, so far, he's not in their league, but for the running game.