Mike D'Antoni and Steve Kerr

[Bufalay]

Frank Johnson sucks!

 

[Tyler]

Frank Johnson sucks!

uhhhhhh OK?

 

[TheHopToad]

The players who have been most affected by Gentry's coaching style have not been here during DA years. Dudley, Frye, Amundson, Dragic and Lopez have given this team levels of depth that I haven't seen on a Suns team in decades. I just don't see Gentry having similar success with the likes of Banks, House, Rose, Jacobsen, Marks or Burke. There's a reason why a lot of our past bench players are either out of the league already or warming benches for other teams. People keep saying how we had so much talent in the past, but that was mostly constrained to our top 5 or 6 players. We never really had much talent beyond that until now.

Very good point.

Pat Burke....gotta wonder what he's up to these days. Only in America can you find a job that pays you $800K to sit on your ass and do nothing.

 

[hsandhu]

Mostly I agree that Mike D's teams were entertaining as hell and there was one year we could have been title bound. But that team, while talented, doesn't have the cohesiveness we're seeing right now.

And frankly, whether you liked D'Antoni or not, I'm tired of everyone bringing him up all the time. It's a killjoy when you're just trying to enjoy what was a spectacular win and series.

A HUGE part of cohesiveness is building a strong bench that you have FAITH in and are willing to let make mistakes. When you have a roster where 7-8 guys are playing a ton, and everyone else is just hanging around, those guys have a tendency to tune out.

Jalen Rose brought up that exact point about his time in phx.

 

[Chaplin]

Maybe if we could bring this guy back from the dead everybody would be happy. If you dont know who he is, look up Suns history.

You must be registered for see images attach

If anyone here doesn't know who that is, they should be banned.

 

[hafey]

I don't really care about D'Antoni the coach. He's a gimmicky coach that was very successful here. I enjoyed the success, but the smart people in the NBA realize his and his system's flaws now.

The thing that makes me enjoy this Suns team's success and D'Antoni's failure in New York more with each passing day is that he is a stubborn, small man. He was handed, as a career .460 coach, a golden ticket in Phoenix. Those Suns teams were legitimately special teams, and I'm not sure anyone is disputing that. However, D'Antoni's hubris got in the way of those teams achieving their full potential.

 

[Mainstreet]

I just keep defending DA because so many like to rag on him. DA deserves better. I prefer the direction the Suns are going with Gentry.

However, let me ask one question. Do you really think Gentry would be the head coach he is today if he had not learned under DA's offensive system. I think not. What Gentry did was take the foundation DA laid and built a better version of the Suns with defense, depth and camaraderie throughout the whole team.

Now let's enjoy the Suns.

 

[cly2tw]

Gentry has been phenomenal at getting this team to play at the level they are playing at now. He got them to enjoy playing defense without sacrificing any of our offensive explosiveness. He helped build incredible chemistry. But could he have the same success with prior Suns teams? Imo, probably not quite.

The players who have been most affected by Gentry's coaching style have not been here during DA years. Dudley, Frye, Amundson, Dragic and Lopez have given this team levels of depth that I haven't seen on a Suns team in decades. I just don't see Gentry having similar success with the likes of Banks, House, Rose, Jacobsen, Marks or Burke. There's a reason why a lot of our past bench players are either out of the league already or warming benches for other teams. People keep saying how we had so much talent in the past, but that was mostly constrained to our top 5 or 6 players. We never really had much talent beyond that until now.

Ultimately, I strongly believe, as I always had, that it is the players that win and lose games, not coaches. Does anyone really believe we would be in the position we are now had we not had our second unit the whole season? And btw, even though we haven't beaten the Spurs with DA we had been to the Western conference finals, twice, even one year without Amare. How can people not consider that an accomplishment?

And you know what the sad part is? If the Suns don't win a title this season, a few years from now the same people who now blame DA for all our past failures will look at this season and consider it a failure too, and then blame Gentry for it. It's just the way it works.

It's not the fact we won 3 games vs. Spurs but the manner with which we won, the poise, the confidence.
As to bench players, Banks was his own choice and he was valuable to Sarver because he declared that he would not play the bench and told Sarver not to bother with it in the first place.

OTOH, Gentry was kinda "forced" to his luck of having to develop the bench due to Nash's decline and Amare's recovery. He was forced to change offensive strategy after the bad stretches in Dec/Jan where we lost so many games we led double-digit in the fourth. Even in the Portland series, he started following DA's tradition of overusing Nash to wear him down, before he had no other choices but sticking to trusting his bench. Unlike DA, he is just willing to adapt to the situation. And luckily, we have found a new identity along the way.

 

[mojorizen7]

And you know what the sad part is? If the Suns don't win a title this season, a few years from now the same people who now blame DA for all our past failures will look at this season and consider it a failure too, and then blame Gentry for it. It's just the way it works.

No. Because those people figured this SUNS team was probably good for an 8th seed plus maybe a 2nd rd exit at best. Make no mistake. This is still DA's core: Nash & Amare plus DA's bench which = Barbosa.

I get your point though Griff. When man invented the wheel it was a square at one point....which eventually lead to the circle. The square wheel was still a bad idea.

I admire your attempt at blanketing the underachievement that was Mike D'Antoni.....but i strongly disagree with it. His philosophies were FLAWED....greatly flawed.

I guarantee you(well i cant guarantee it...but anyway...) Greg Popovich longed for the days of coaching against a Mike D'Antoni coached SUNS team after feeling the sting of game 2 in this series......D'Antoni's teams got to the WCF on nothing but pure talent and athleticism....and Steve Nash.

This team has a legit head coach and this roster has guts & a little toughness.

Where are all the SSOL 7 man rotation squads in the post-season?
If you want to call DA's teams a stepping stone to more intelligent & better things(teams) than you & I are in full agreement.

 

[cly2tw]

I just keep defending DA because so many like to rag on him. DA deserves better. I prefer the direction the Suns are going with Gentry.

However, let me ask one question. Do you really think Gentry would be the head coach he is today if he had not learned under DA's offensive system. I think not. What Gentry did was take the foundation DA laid and built a better version of the Suns with defense, depth and camaraderie throughout the whole team.

Now let's enjoy the Suns.

I'd say, Gentry has learned more from DA's failure as the closes eye-witness, and from his own adhering to some of DA's principles like sticking to Nash for 40 min in close games with the belief "our MVP will will us the win", which has not occurred for over 2 years now due to body breakdown.

 

[ninous26]

Maybe if we could bring this guy back from the dead everybody would be happy. If you dont know who he is, look up Suns history.

You must be registered for see images attach

RIP, the suns and we (the fans) have to do it for this guy.. Win a championship for Cotton.

 

[hsandhu]

I just keep defending DA because so many like to rag on him. DA deserves better. I prefer the direction the Suns are going with Gentry.

However, let me ask one question. Do you really think Gentry would be the head coach he is today if he had not learned under DA's offensive system. I think not. What Gentry did was take the foundation DA laid and built a better version of the Suns with defense, depth and camaraderie throughout the whole team.

Now let's enjoy the Suns.

I agree D'Antoni's style was the basis for great offense. And he absolutely gets credit for that.

But he would not alter his philosophy in any way. Despite the fact all evidence, and logic, pointed needing SOME emphasis on defense and a bench to win a title. That's why I called him a stubborn fool.

In 2006 WCF he was playing seven guys, that's ridiculous.

 

[HooverDam]

Yeah right they are inferior now that we pretty much beat them but before they were called a favorite to win the title after they beat the Mavs?

I didnt hear anyone calling them a favorite to win the title, I certainly didn't. Its been LA, Cleveland and Orlando all along for most folks. The rest of your post was so moronic Im not going to bother to respond.

Just admit it... you were WRONG about DA's "genius". We're just as successful without him as we were with him and without Nash, he's just as AWFUL as he's ALWAYS been.

How was I wrong about anything? Guess who's offense that is the Suns are running out there? Hint: its a guy who's in NYC now.

The Suns were not 'just as successful' with out him as they were with him. Take a look at their W-L percentage with and without him, guess what: its better with. Now that they're back to D'Antonis offense they're having good results, so to act like D'Antonis system was the failure is silly. Those D'Antoni teams had a lot of bad luck some years and others they just weren't the best team. This years Spurs team isn't the Spurs from earlier this decade though, and while I'm thrilled to be beating them, it doesn't make Kerr or Gentry some kind of geniuses and D'Antoni a fool. Thats the sort of moronic, black and white thinking that unfortunately plagues most sports fans and has me checking the Suns subforum less and less these days.

If you think D'Antoni is an awful coach you don't know much about basketball and thats the long and short of it. I don't think he's a Hall of Famer (though he may get there some day) but to criticize him for not having success with the other rosters he's had is ridiculous. Isiah Thomas screwed that Knicks team up in a gigantic way and everyone knew it was going to take a few years to blow things up and rebuild.

 

[Griffin]

Even in the Portland series, he started following DA's tradition of overusing Nash to wear him down, before he had no other choices but sticking to trusting his bench. Unlike DA, he is just willing to adapt to the situation. And luckily, we have found a new identity along the way.

Yes, but had DA done the same, that would mean putting the game in the hands of someone like Banks. Would you have faith in that? And you can fault DA for signing Banks instead of drafting Rondo, but having a real GM instead of DA in that role would have prevented that. And you can fault DA for not developing Banks (or someone else?) into a player like Dragic, but then again no other coach in this league has been able to do that with Banks or anyone who's been on our roster.

No. Because those people figured this SUNS team was probably good for an 8th seed plus maybe a 2nd rd exit at best.

Ah, but that was pretty much the case before the 2004/05 season too. We were just hoping for a return to the playoffs; certainly no one even dreamt about having the best record in the league or getting to the Western finals.

Anyway, certainly DA had flaws and Gentry did learn from both what DA did right and what he did wrong. But I will not agree that DA is the reason the Suns have not won a title in the past, just like, should we not win it under Gentry, I won't agree that he was the reason either.

 

[mojorizen7]

Ah, but that was pretty much the case before the 2004/05 season too. We were just hoping for a return to the playoffs; certainly no one even dreamt about having the best record in the league or getting to the Western finals.

Before Nash arrived sure......i'll give you that. How about the expectations locally & nationally the next 3 seasons though?
Look, we disagree on the DA issue. I'm getting my drink on tonight in celebration of a 3-0 series lead against the vaunted S.A. Sterns.

I'm also glad that D'Antoni is in NY.
Cheers

 

[HooverDam]

Anyway, certainly DA had flaws and Gentry did learn from both what DA did right and what he did wrong. But I will not agree that DA is the reason the Suns have not won a title in the past, just like, should we not win it under Gentry, I won't agree that he was the reason either.

This post is excellent, well reasoned, logically and well written. Prepare to be shouted down by an army of people who rely solely on platitudes and cliches to inform their view on sports.

 

[Griffin]

This post is excellent, well reasoned, logically and well written. Prepare to be shouted down by an army of people who rely solely on platitudes and cliches to inform their view on sports.

Oh, I'm used to it

Though I would recommend that everyone just enjoy the ride for the time being and see how far we can go rather than keep dwelling on the past. That's what the off-season is for.

 

[hsandhu]

Yes, but had DA done the same, that would mean putting the game in the hands of someone like Banks. Would you have faith in that? And you can fault DA for signing Banks instead of drafting Rondo, but having a real GM instead of DA in that role would have prevented that. And you can fault DA for not developing Banks (or someone else?) into a player like Dragic, but then again no other coach in this league has been able to do that with Banks or anyone who's been on our roster.

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter if D'Antoni drafted Rondo, he would have never played him. He doesn't fit what D'Antoni wants.

 

[cly2tw]

Yes, but had DA done the same, that would mean putting the game in the hands of someone like Banks. Would you have faith in that? And you can fault DA for signing Banks instead of drafting Rondo, but having a real GM instead of DA in that role would have prevented that. And you can fault DA for not developing Banks (or someone else?) into a player like Dragic, but then again no other coach in this league has been able to do that with Banks or anyone who's been on our roster.

A.

The Banks reference is quite ignorant and lacks any trace of logic. DA hand-picked Banks himself and gave him 25/5 contract as the GM, while spitting out the famous quote "I ain't in the business of developing rookies" when he had the chance to pick Rondo with our first-round pick. (And people wrongly blamed Sarver of being cheap for selling that pick to Boston.) So, it turns out that Banks was his excuse for only playing 6- or 7-man rotation? Did he even know how to use Banks as Nash's sub? Did he know how to game-plan a rotation with more than 7 guys, at all? Because he protected himself from subjecting to this test/caveat by not picking any bench player he could use in games as GM, it appeared.

 

[Tyler]

RIP, the suns and we (the fans) have to do it for this guy.. Win a championship for Cotton.

I was at the game he got inducted to the Ring. We played the Warriors and lost. Doesnt matter, that was one of the most moving nights I have ever been a part of. I wish I was a few years older so I could really appreciate what he did for this team/city.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Banks reference is quite ignorant and lacks any trace of logic. DA hand-picked Banks himself and gave him 25/5 contract as the GM, while spitting out the famous quote "I ain't in the business of developing rookies" when he had the chance to pick Rondo with our first-round pick. (And people wrongly blamed Sarver of being cheap for selling that pick to Boston.) So, it turns out that Banks was his excuse for only playing 6- or 7-man rotation? Did he even know how to use Banks as Nash's sub? Did he know how to game-plan a rotation with more than 7 guys, at all? Because he protected himself from subjecting to this test/caveat by not picking any bench player he could use in games as GM, it appeared.

No Griffin selected Banks for DA. You can argue that DA was the GM at the time but if anyone recalls he was just a figure head as a GM until Kerr arrived. In reality Griffin acted as the true GM and he selected Banks for DA.

Anyway these arguments are getting old especially with the Suns winning in the playoffs. We will have all summer to argue these same tired arguments again.

Go Suns.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Ultimately, I strongly believe, as I always had, that it is the players that win and lose games, not coaches.

Tell that to the Denver Nuggets.

After watching the Nuggets collapse this year, my opinion changed and I now believe solid coaching has everything to do with being a successful playoff team.

You need great players don't get me wrong, but without a great coach you cannot go deep in the playoffs.

Coaching is the key in the playoffs.

 

[shazaam6]

The Nash led Mavericks led the league in scoring the two years prior to leading the Suns to lead the league in scoring. NASH is the offense, not d'Antoni. That is why no one could run the offense like Nash except Nash. It's his unique skills that run our offense which can't just be copied. Like Magic Johnson running the Lakers or the allstar teams he played on. Nash plays his way, not d'antoni's. Get it straight Suns fans, this is Nash's offense based on his ambidextrous abilities and court vision, some of which is being learned by Dragic who is purposely trying to add Nash's skills and playing style to his game because Nash was an idol of his growing up. The best thing is that Dragic is a taller, quicker, younger, better defender learning from Nash himself. This is just the beginning for Dragic and the Suns, he is still learning but look what he can do already. Print up the Dragic jerseys because there will be a demand soon.

 

[sunsfn]

Mike D'Antoni is an excellent coach!
The bench players we had while he was here were horrible compared to what they have now.
All of the drafts were Sarvers getting rid of players for money, which forced D'Antoni to make comments like I am not here to teach players.

The year Joe Johnson broke his face was the year they could have gone all the way.........that year is the most frustating for me!!!

I am enjoying this year and think Gentry is an excellent coach also!
I do not think this team can go all the way, but I hope they can prove me wrong.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I didnt hear anyone calling them a favorite to win the title, I certainly didn't. Its been LA, Cleveland and Orlando all along for most folks. The rest of your post was so moronic Im not going to bother to respond.



How was I wrong about anything? Guess who's offense that is the Suns are running out there? Hint: its a guy who's in NYC now.

I'm sorry man, but if you think we're running the same offense now as we were then, you're huffing paint. This team doesn't run anything CLOSE to 7 seconds or less. That offense was predicated on one thing and one thing only... get the ball to Nash and RUN. This offense is SO much more multi-faceted it's not even funny.

The Suns were not 'just as successful' with out him as they were with him. Take a look at their W-L percentage with and without him, guess what: its better with.

Regular season sure... and that's really all DA supporters care about but one year with a halfway decent coach and what do you know? We're back in the Conference Finals, JUST AS SUCCESSFUL as any DA team. You measure success in regular season, fine. I measure it by post-season and here we are AGAIN.

Now that they're back to D'Antonis offense they're having good results, so to act like D'Antonis system was the failure is silly.

again, you're a simpleton if you think just because we're scoring a ton of points that we're running DA's system.

Those D'Antoni teams had a lot of bad luck some years and others they just weren't the best team.

cry me a freaking river... as if this team... WHO'S MISSING IT'S STARTING CENTER is the luckiest team alive. Give me a break.

This years Spurs team isn't the Spurs from earlier this decade though, and while I'm thrilled to be beating them, it doesn't make Kerr or Gentry some kind of geniuses and D'Antoni a fool. Thats the sort of moronic, black and white thinking that unfortunately plagues most sports fans and has me checking the Suns subforum less and less these days.

you're right... that alone doesn't make hem genuises, nor do I think they are one, but that PLUS the fact that DA has been a complete and UTTER FAILURE EVERYWHERE but with Nash DOES ake him a fool. A one trick pony.

If you think D'Antoni is an awful coach you don't know much about basketball and thats the long and short of it. I don't think he's a Hall of Famer (though he may get there some day) but to criticize him for not having success with the other rosters he's had is ridiculous. Isiah Thomas screwed that Knicks team up in a gigantic way and everyone knew it was going to take a few years to blow things up and rebuild.

and meanwhile Isiah was able to win at the same clip that DA has. I mean, if DA was a great coach as you say he is, shouldn't he at least elevate that team A LITTLE?