Mike Jurecki on Ray Horton

[Cheesebeef]

First off, I don't think Whiz is getting fired. But, if he did, I'd be awfully surprised if he didn't get another HC job. If guys like Phillips, Turner, Mularkey, and even Dave Wannestadt all have been hired multiple times with less credentials, Whiz will too. In fact, I think he'll be a very succesful HC. Hopefully it's in Arizona.

This situation reminds of the Gary Kubiak situation in Houston. They were ready to run him out of town 2 years ago and decided to stick with him. Now look at them. One of the AZ Republic writers compared the situation to Lovie Smith in Chicago also. He was on his way out, they stuck with him, now look at them. The same can be said about Marvin Lewis in Cincy. They are about to make the playoffs for the 2nd year in a row and he WAS dead man walking two years ago.

Kubiak's teams never lost 8 in a row (and what could end up being 12 in a row). They were consistently 8-8 for years. Not an abomination of the sort we've seen this year. Lovie Smith was 45-35 at the time they were talking about firing him (as opposed to under .500 like Wiz). Marvin Lewis is closer... but really... are we striving to be... THE BENGALS... a team as dysfunctional as ours with a HC who's never even won a playoff game?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Seriously? How can you say that with such confidence? The guy has won at most 9 games and endured historic losing streaks. He is mediocre at best right now.

He has won 10 in a regular season, and a number of playoff games. He gets bonus points out there for having endured working for the historically bad Cardinals.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He has won 10 in a regular season, and a number of playoff games. He gets bonus points out there for having endured working for the historically bad Cardinals.

he loses bonus points from me when he's created a mess leading us right back to being the historically bad Cardinals.

 

[kerouac9]

I read Jurecki's "whispers" as the Cards letting fans know that the only positive in the franchise is under review and (ideally) going to be locked up. Otherwise it doesn't make a lot of sense as anything but PR.

Commenting that Whis would never get another NFL job is inane. He's overqualified to go back to his old job (coaching TEs), but the interesting wrinkle is that he's not like Mac where he has a network to fall back on--same with Grimm. The coaching staff in Pittsburgh has been scrubbed of Cowher's guys. If Cowher doesn't come back into the NFL, who has the relationship with Whis to bring him on as an assistant?

That said, Whis has a ton of respect with the League. You don't get on the Competition Committee without mad credit from your peers. He's a smart guy and a good executive, clearly. In the NFL, having an abudance of loyalty will get you further than a lack of it.

 

[Chopper0080]

I read Jurecki's "whispers" as the Cards letting fans know that the only positive in the franchise is under review and (ideally) going to be locked up. Otherwise it doesn't make a lot of sense as anything but PR.

Commenting that Whis would never get another NFL job is inane. He's overqualified to go back to his old job (coaching TEs), but the interesting wrinkle is that he's not like Mac where he has a network to fall back on--same with Grimm. The coaching staff in Pittsburgh has been scrubbed of Cowher's guys. If Cowher doesn't come back into the NFL, who has the relationship with Whis to bring him on as an assistant?

That said, Whis has a ton of respect with the League. You don't get on the Competition Committee without mad credit from your peers. He's a smart guy and a good executive, clearly. In the NFL, having an abudance of loyalty will get you further than a lack of it.

I agree.

 

[Garthshort]

Has anyone seen Mrs. Whiz, lately? Is there any chance that she's been kidnapped and is being held, not for ransom, but for Whiz being told who to play for three games. The 'nappers feel they can make enough money betting against the Cards in a survivor league to make it better than any ransom KW could afford. Does anyone agree?

 

[CtCardinals78]

Has anyone seen Mrs. Whiz, lately? Is there any chance that she's been kidnapped and is being held, not for ransom, but for Whiz being told who to play for three games. The 'nappers feel they can make enough money betting against the Cards in a survivor league to make it better than any ransom KW could afford. Does anyone agree?

No. There is no chance of that.

 

[Duckjake]

Kubiak's teams never lost 8 in a row (and what could end up being 12 in a row). They were consistently 8-8 for years. Not an abomination of the sort we've seen this year. Lovie Smith was 45-35 at the time they were talking about firing him (as opposed to under .500 like Wiz). Marvin Lewis is closer... but really... are we striving to be... THE BENGALS... a team as dysfunctional as ours with a HC who's never even won a playoff game?

I also don't think Kubiak ever had a run of 3-15. But he has won 11 of 13 like CKW.

This whole situation is baffling. 3-15 to 11-2 to 0-8 with the same coaches and many of the same players. Well maybe not so baffling after all they are the Cardinals and weird is what they do.

 

[Stout]

First off, I don't think Whiz is getting fired. But, if he did, I'd be awfully surprised if he didn't get another HC job. If guys like Phillips, Turner, Mularkey, and even Dave Wannestadt all have been hired multiple times with less credentials, Whiz will too. In fact, I think he'll be a very succesful HC. Hopefully it's in Arizona.

This situation reminds of the Gary Kubiak situation in Houston. They were ready to run him out of town 2 years ago and decided to stick with him. Now look at them. One of the AZ Republic writers compared the situation to Lovie Smith in Chicago also. He was on his way out, they stuck with him, now look at them. The same can be said about Marvin Lewis in Cincy. They are about to make the playoffs for the 2nd year in a row and he WAS dead man walking two years ago.

Everybody thinks a new guy is going to come in and be better but most cases that doesn't happen. Get Whiz a QB and let's see what effect Lichter has on free agency, then decide.

Cheese nailed it. None of those coaches have led teams to suffer such a horrific run as we have, save for Lewis. And that's not a ringing endorsement.

 

[conraddobler]

Game Sunday was a "JOKE", a fraud a big steaming crap on the brand.

All I know is that if you have an employee do that to your brand enough they should get fired and to me it'd of been enough, your mileage may vary.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

If they promote Horton to head coach they wouldn't have to worry about some crazy turnover because the one good part of the team could stay intact. Than bring in the best offensive coordinator you can find and the best QB coach you can find. The offense can't get worse than it currently is so bringing in new players and personnel on that side of the field isn't really going to set us back whatsoever. Also they could promote Keim to GM since they don't want to lose him anyways.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

All I know is that if you have an employee do that to your brand

Actually, Conrad, I think our brand IS to be the looser team with the cheap owner.

That's the problem. This is the wrong thread but that's why the Bidwill's should have some of the blame for all this laid at their feet. They haven't done what's necessary (or had the all-consuming desire) to change the brand.

 

[conraddobler]

Actually, Conrad, I think our brand IS to be the looser team with the cheap owner.

That's the problem. This is the wrong thread but that's why the Bidwill's should have some of the blame for all this laid at their feet. They haven't done what's necessary (or had the all-consuming desire) to change the brand.

Yes that's true and Michael has put in heroic efforts to change that but he's probably working within confines that restrict his hand on a lot of this.

I don't know the financials of the team, all I know is that we tend to be on the much less spendy end of the spectrum, that's fine, we can win like that but here's a few things that must happen for that to work.

STOP BEING STUPID!!

IMO the best outcome here is a power struggle with Whiz that Whiz loses badly, fire who you want to fire, promote someone to head of personell leave Graves in his position and let him do contracts and then set about shopping for a team you think Whiz can coach.

He's going to lose Horton, you'll need a new DC too who runs our scheme.

Bottom line that's the way this should go.

Whiz needs to be humbled bad if that fails then it fails, let him go.

The rest of the plan remains the same, just go shopping for a HC and don't limit yourself to Horton just because.

We need a head of personell who knows players, then it'll all work out from there.

 

[JeffGollin]

Whatever is our fastest, most surefire route to a good QB, a solid OL and good playcalling, that's what we gotta do - even if it means a clean sweep top to bottom.

If we could get there by surgical tweaking, I could live with that, but I get the impression that some really bad decisions have been made in the recent past that make it difficult to trust these guys to get the job done going forward.

If there are extenuating circumstances, what is it that we're missing?

 

[Duckjake]

Buddy Ryan was hired as our HC and our defense didn't suffer. In fact it improved from 21st in yards allowed to 3rd! So I don't know that having Horton as HC would necessarily hurt our D.

 

[desertdawg]

Buddy Ryan was hired as our HC and our defense didn't suffer. In fact it improved from 21st in yards allowed to 3rd! So I don't know that having Horton as HC would necessarily hurt our D.

Good point, plus I believe Horton has coached under like 3 different Superbowl caliber coaches (if we count Whiz ). So he's seen how it's done a few ways. Give him a 4 game trial, if he gets overwhelmed, tell the new HC that we hire that we are good on D, FIX THE REST.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Whatever is our fastest, most surefire route to a good QB, a solid OL and good playcalling, that's what we gotta do - even if it means a clean sweep top to bottom.

That's what I think as well. The future is now.

 

[vinnymac]

This is about where I am. Matter of fact, if he really has had the full power to choose his QB's, I'd definitely fire him. By full power though I mean that he's had the financial support to go after his first target. If he's had decision making power but lacked control of the purse strings and if that in any way shaped our pursuit of Kolb or inhibited our attempt to bring in Manning, I'm still okay with firing him but I'd like to see whoever was in his way shown the door too.

Steve

I agree 110%. The cardinals as a whole need to get better. This just the start of the finger pointing and covering of the back side.

 

[Mulli]

So Jurecki threw something out there, but nothing happens.

Great thread, compelling and rich.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

So Jurecki threw something out there, but nothing happens.

Great thread, compelling and rich.

Did you think something would happen this week? I still don't think anything happens until the off-season unless the offense is SO terrible this weekend that they do something just to placate the fan base. I could see Miller being fired as such an example if that is something that is going to happen in a few weeks anyways.

 

[CtCardinals78]

So Jurecki threw something out there, but nothing happens.

Great thread, compelling and rich.

I actually put it up more as a courtesy for those who might not have been listening or for those out of the PHX area without access to the PHX radio stations. If you don't want to read it, don't open the thread. You're welcome.

 

[Mulli]

I actually put it up more as a courtesy for those who might not have been listening or for those out of the PHX area without access to the PHX radio stations. If you don't want to read it, don't open the thread. You're welcome.

Fair enough. My bad. Peace!

 

[CtCardinals78]

Fair enough. My bad. Peace!

No problem!