Mike Mayock's interesting take on Cards draft philosophy and 49er's impact.

[Lomax to Green 84]

I saw a brief clip on Path to the Draft recently where Mike Mayock explained what he thought the Cardinals were thinking with that 13th pick. Mayock didn't indulge who he thought the pick would be, but he did give some insight into a philosophy he said most teams employ when they are trying to track down a division rival (in our case the 49ers).

Mayock expects the Cardinals to try and become a more physical team to match the tremedous physicality of the 49ers. He said that BPA is just a term that can be applied to a number of different scenerios. What may be considered BPA for the Cardinals could be totally different for a team that plays in a wide open passing division like the NFC North.

There were a few names bantered about. Mostly the obvious ones: DeCastro and Reiff, but they also talked about being more physical on the defensive side to combat the 49ers run game. A name mentioned was Dontari Poe and not just as a NT but someone who could fit a Haloti Nauta role.

I'm predicting a bit of a curveball pick by the Cardinals, hopefully in a trade down scenerio. I still think Courtney Upshaw would really upgrade the physicality of the Cardinals and he would definitely fit this type of philosophy. Poe is also interesting and NFL Exec. guys like Casserly and Lombardi really like Poe for more than just the measurables.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

I'm not a proponent, but a "downhill linebacker" like Dont'a Hightower or Upshaw could also be the reference. Wouldn't have to be a lineman.

 

[JeffGollin]

The Pittsburgh media mentioned the Cards as being one of several teams interested in Poe.

Usually, when several teams are mentioned to be interested in a player, you'll find an agent's PR staffer hard at work.

That said - I raised the possibility of the Cards becoming more physical on defense to counter all 3 division rivals' offensive physicality.

Poe would give us a Ngata-like presence in the middle, but there have been recent negative rumbles concerning the non-stoppability of his proverbial motor. I think he could definitely be on the Cards' top 13 board (though my most recent mock has him going to either Jax or Carolina).

I think an equally likely candidate should AZ decide to go in that direction would be Cox due to his versatility (& depth behind Calais & Darnell).

Who knows? (My gut still tilts toward Ingram if Reiff or possibly DeCastro are off the board).

 

[BigRedRage]

POE is NT correct? This would mean kinda giving up on dumpster dan..doesnt make a ton of sense. I would assume ILB/OLB or OL/WR for #1

 

[JeffGollin]

POE is NT correct? This would mean kinda giving up on dumpster dan..doesnt make a ton of sense. I would assume ILB/OLB or OL/WR for #1

Not if you believe we need a 6-man rotation consisting of 6 "starters" in order to match up with Gore, Jacobs, jackson, (possibly Richardson) and Lynch so as not to lose wars of attrition.

 

[Chopper0080]

The Pittsburgh media mentioned the Cards as being one of several teams interested in Poe.

Usually, when several teams are mentioned to be interested in a player, you'll find an agent's PR staffer hard at work.

That said - I raised the possibility of the Cards becoming more physical on defense to counter all 3 division rivals' offensive physicality.

Poe would give us a Ngata-like presence in the middle, but there have been recent negative rumbles concerning the non-stoppability of his proverbial motor. I think he could definitely be on the Cards' top 13 board (though my most recent mock has him going to either Jax or Carolina).

I think an equally likely candidate should AZ decide to go in that direction would be Cox due to his versatility (& depth behind Calais & Darnell).

Who knows? (My gut still tilts toward Ingram if Reiff or possibly DeCastro are off the board).

Isn't this why we spent a first rounder on Dan Williams. Pass on the idea of drafting another "run stopper." Games are won and lost in the passing game these days. The 49ers didn't beat the Saints because of Frank Gore, they beat them throwing the ball down the field to Vernon Davis.

Melvin Ingram, David DeCastro, Michael Floyd or trade down are the only options I can live with after spending way too much time watching college football games, youtube clips, and reading scouting reports. There are just too many good players to be had later on for me to take a risk on these other players probably available.

 

[Phrazbit]

Poe would give us a presence in the gym and a bench warmer during the games. The guy was a nobody on the field on college. I dont expect that to magically change because he hustled at the combine.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

POE is NT correct? This would mean kinda giving up on dumpster dan..doesnt make a ton of sense. I would assume ILB/OLB or OL/WR for #1

He's viewed as athletic to the point of being able to play all D-line roles.

 

[BigRedRage]

He's viewed as athletic to the point of being able to play all D-line roles.

As far as I am concerned our DL is set with campbell, williams dockett and then rotation of eason, the old guy and some later round picks. No need for a first rounder.

 

[Duckjake]

I saw a brief clip on Path to the Draft recently where Mike Mayock explained what he thought the Cardinals were thinking with that 13th pick. Mayock didn't indulge who he thought the pick would be, but he did give some insight into a philosophy he said most teams employ when they are trying to track down a division rival (in our case the 49ers).

Mayock expects the Cardinals to try and become a more physical team to match the tremedous physicality of the 49ers. He said that BPA is just a term that can be applied to a number of different scenerios. What may be considered BPA for the Cardinals could be totally different for a team that plays in a wide open passing division like the NFC North.

There were a few names bantered about. Mostly the obvious ones: DeCastro and Reiff, but they also talked about being more physical on the defensive side to combat the 49ers run game. A name mentioned was Dontari Poe and not just as a NT but someone who could fit a Haloti Nauta role.

I'm predicting a bit of a curveball pick by the Cardinals, hopefully in a trade down scenerio. I still think Courtney Upshaw would really upgrade the physicality of the Cardinals and he would definitely fit this type of philosophy. Poe is also interesting and NFL Exec. guys like Casserly and Lombardi really like Poe for more than just the measurables.

Mayock's usually got some good insight but indications I get are the Cards are looking for players who have the mental capacity to handle their complex schemes. Arizona doesn't seem to want to over power teams they want to out maneuver them. So went Patrick Willis comes in to deliver a huge hit the Cardinal player he blasts isn't the ball carrier. Meanwhile LSH is running for 50 yards.

This is probably the smart thing to do given the way the rules are going. How can you be a physical team when you can't hit anybody? I expect even more of a crackdown now because of all the publicity the Saints have generated.

 

[john h]

I'm not a proponent, but a "downhill linebacker" like Dont'a Hightower or Upshaw could also be the reference. Wouldn't have to be a lineman.

Is it not true that in most cases linemen need a year or more to develop and learn the schemes and know the players next to them? I do not think you generally expect to draft a lineman and he immediately steps in and becomes a game changer. I think you add these guys one by one and over a few years put together a solid OL or DL that you can keep together as a unit. A RB or WR come come into the NFL ready to play. Not so much with linemen even great ones. They develop into all pros. My thoughts.

 

[bg7brd]

Isn't this why we spent a first rounder on Dan Williams. Pass on the idea of drafting another "run stopper." Games are won and lost in the passing game these days. The 49ers didn't beat the Saints because of Frank Gore, they beat them throwing the ball down the field to Vernon Davis.

Melvin Ingram, David DeCastro, Michael Floyd or trade down are the only options I can live with after spending way too much time watching college football games, youtube clips, and reading scouting reports. There are just too many good players to be had later on for me to take a risk on these other players probably available.

I agree but would add Fletcher Cox to that list if he some ho falls.

 

[Goldfield]

Not sure I like the idea of drafting guys to play against a type of team. I would think you have the type of team you want to be and try to become the most balanced you can at every aspect.

 

[Dougmo]

Poe does not strike me as overly 'tough' more of a work out warrior. Cox seems more in line with 'tough', but I really hope we don't go defensive line in the first.
That thought does get me more intersted in Upshaw. I've been reading a few places how he is seen as a perfect fit at OLB for Pittsburgh (which I assume means perfect fit for our D as well). If he were the pick, I could muster some enthusiasm for that, and assume he's exactly what Horton is looking for at OLB.
That's where I feel like we could use some talent/rotation guys, seeing as we really only have 2 pups with potential and 1 old guy (I assume we keep Haggans).

 

[Duckjake]

Poe does not strike me as overly 'tough' more of a work out warrior. Cox seems more in line with 'tough', but I really hope we don't go defensive line in the first.
That thought does get me more intersted in Upshaw. I've been reading a few places how he is seen as a perfect fit at OLB for Pittsburgh (which I assume means perfect fit for our D as well). If he were the pick, I could muster some enthusiasm for that, and assume he's exactly what Horton is looking for at OLB.
That's where I feel like we could use some talent/rotation guys, seeing as we really only have 2 pups with potential and 1 old guy (I assume we keep Haggans).

I'm with you on the Pittsburgh connection. Seems to me that if a guy fits the Steelers he should fit the Cardinals. Unless Horton is running something different not wanting to follow what leBeau did in Pittsburgh.

As for Haggans it's odd that there hasn't been any talk about him. I wonder if he's just going to fade away like Okeafor did. Seems like if the brass thinks Paris Lenon can still play they wouldn't think Clark was too old. But with no news who knows.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'm with you on the Pittsburgh connection. Seems to me that if a guy fits the Steelers he should fit the Cardinals. Unless Horton is running something different not wanting to follow what leBeau did in Pittsburgh.

As for Haggans it's odd that there hasn't been any talk about him. I wonder if he's just going to fade away like Okeafor did. Seems like if the brass thinks Paris Lenon can still play they wouldn't think Clark was too old. But with no news who knows.

I see Haggens as a post draft type of signing. I'm sure as close to the cap as the Cardinals are, they don't want to sign a vet player who isn't getting much interest from the rest of the league until they see how the draft plays out. Cap space can be created, but why restructure deals at this point unless you have to. Same goes for Vonnie Holliday, and the Calais Campbell long term contract (though his would create space).

As much as I dislike Rod Graves, I am pretty positive he will get Campbell signed to a long term deal. There hasn't been enough negative comments from either Campbell and his camp or the Arizona media to make me think it won't happen.

 

[Duckjake]

I see Haggens as a post draft type of signing. I'm sure as close to the cap as the Cardinals are, they don't want to sign a vet player who isn't getting much interest from the rest of the league until they see how the draft plays out. Cap space can be created, but why restructure deals at this point unless you have to. Same goes for Vonnie Holliday, and the Calais Campbell long term contract (though his would create space).

As much as I dislike Rod Graves, I am pretty positive he will get Campbell signed to a long term deal. There hasn't been enough negative comments from either Campbell and his camp or the Arizona media to make me think it won't happen.

That makes sense. Was sort of curios why Haggans wasn't signed with the group, mostly RFA's, Monday and that probably explains it. Question though in a year with more cap breathing room wouldn't you want as many guys signed as possible when voluntary workouts started?

Speaking of restructure any thoughts on why Sendlein did his? Probably mentioned in another thread.

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

Poe would give us a presence in the gym and a bench warmer during the games. The guy was a nobody on the field on college. I dont expect that to magically change because he hustled at the combine.

I kind of thought the same thing until hearing Casserly, Lombardi, and Mayock talk about Poe during this piece on the Cardinals. Casserly said that Poe exhibits qualities that he always looked for in good defensive linemen (strong hands, good sense of balance and understanding of leverage). Mike Lombardi said that Poe is much more than a workout wonder, that the strength and speed does translate to the field. It was mentioned that Memphis was one of the worst teams in college football last year and teams that played them knew that Poe was hands down the best player on the field, so they just avoided him.

Lombardi mentioned that the "Planet Person" title was always best applied to defensive linemen. A "Planet Person" was a term used by former Giants GM George Young and it meant drafting a guy who was bigger and stronger and faster than anyone on earth who happened to play football. Young's theory was if you had a chance to grab that type of guy especially if he played the defensive line, you take him and make him fit into your scheme. Poe seems to fit the bill.

I'm not advocating Dontari Poe, but he is an interesting guy.

 

[WildBB]

Isn't this why we spent a first rounder on Dan Williams. Pass on the idea of drafting another "run stopper." Games are won and lost in the passing game these days. The 49ers didn't beat the Saints because of Frank Gore, they beat them throwing the ball down the field to Vernon Davis.

Melvin Ingram, David DeCastro, Michael Floyd or trade down are the only options I can live with after spending way too much time watching college football games, youtube clips, and reading scouting reports. There are just too many good players to be had later on for me to take a risk on these other players probably available.

Also DL is absolutely the deepest position of this entire draft.

Someone like DaJohn Harris later would be a coup.

 

[JeffGollin]

Also DL is absolutely the deepest position of this entire draft...

In addition to coining the term "Planet People - a strategy that helped him grab 2 bookend OT's in the same draft in (can't remember the first name) Moore and Jumbo Elliott - Young also believed in "drafting to the strength of the draft" position-wise.