Mike Williams worth trading up?

[lrk27]

Originally posted by azdad1978
True but Fitz didn't see good competition like Williams did last year.

You mean like Miami, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Toledo, West Virginia and Boston College?

 

[SECTION 11]

Fitz's real value is in catching seven yard touchdown passes.

Let's save ourselves the wasted pick on a receiver and get the ball to 6'5" Freddie Jones (IF we make it to the red zone with this anemic running game).

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by lrk27
Fitzgerald had three games all year where he was held under 100 yards and only the Miami game could be considered close to shut down. Fitz had TEN 100+ yard receiving games and a TD in every regular season game.

Mike Williams was "shut down" as you would consider it by many more teams than Fitz. Oh and by the way, Williams wasn't even the only 1000 yard receiver on his team. He is a great WR, but a huge product of the system. They are the best college football team in the country because you can't double team MW and you can't just try to stop the run or the pass, they are too good. MW got man coverage all year. Larry Fitzgerald saw entire defenses geared to stopping him. You must look at all of the circumstances.

True, but the year before MW, Palmer was nothing special and USC was somewhat disappointing, and they had Colbert, and Kareem Kelly so they did have talent. the next year Williams comes in and Palmer is the first pick in the draft. Kelly graduates, they lose Fargas, Leinart is supposed to be keeping the job warm for John David Booty, and Leinart actually surpasses Palmer's numbers.

And while yes USC has more talent than Pitt, that works both ways, there. Cal beat USC, the closest ANY other team came all year was Michigan losing by 14 in the Rose Bowl, they won 10 games by 20 or more points, I'm fairly certain they led the nation in scoring margin. So there were a lot of games where Williams didn't play more than half the game.

Fitzgerald is a terrific player but he's about 4 inches smaller, probably not any faster, I'd be very surprised if LF goes ahead of MW.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by azdad1978
True but Fitz didn't see good competition like Williams did last year.

Ok we are talking abotut he Pac-10 here....

You mean all those powerhouses like

BYU 4-8
Arizona St 5-7
Stanford 4-7
Notre Dame 5-7
Washington 6-6
Arizona 2-10
UCLA 6-7

Yeah some competition!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Fitz's real value is in catching seven yard touchdown passes.

Let's save ourselves the wasted pick on a receiver and get the ball to 6'5" Freddie Jones (IF we make it to the red zone with this anemic running game).

So the 25 plays over 20 yards shouldnt matter right??

 

[B-Dogg]

I think the best way to look at this is that now I believe we will get either Fitz or Williams which gives us a great WR trio for many years to come...

 

[D-Dogg]

Originally posted by B-Dogg
I think the best way to look at this is that now I believe we will get either Fitz or Williams which gives us a great WR trio for many years to come...

Actually, I think this means we get Eli. Which is fine in my book; that's who I wanted since mid season. However, once MW declared Eli dropped to number 2 on my big board.

If an outside chance comes and Fitz is on the board, Green may take him and I'd be ok with that. I'd rather have Eli, Taylor or Jackson over Fitz myself. And of course, MW who will be wearing a Charger uni next year.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by D-Dogg
However, once MW declared Eli dropped to number 2 on my big board.

Where the hell can I get one of those big boards?

 

[D-Dogg]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
Where the hell can I get one of those big boards?

Staples.

 

[B-Dogg]

I actually prefer Big Ben to Eli but have changed my stance on drafting a QB. I think Green has a system and you dont need a franchise QB to be successful with it... as was shown in Minnesota... Plus I think Josh has to given an opportunity, if it wasnt for an injury to Bledsoe or Peete playing so badly in Carolina, neither of the two QB's in this years Super Bowl may have gotten their chance... so I think Josh deserves his, he has all the tools to be successful and now has the coach...

 

[D-Dogg]

There's always this scenario too:

1) Chargers: Eli Manning
2) Raiders: Larry Fitzgerald
3) Cardinals: Mike Williams

 

[ajcardfan]

I can't believe anyone would call Mike Williams a "product of a system". Yes, USC was good all round. But, Williams was the "straw that stirred the drink". If he was the only weapon on that offense his stats would've been much higher. He made his teammates better, they did not open things up for him. The defense constantly rolled double coverage on him.

Yes, Fitz had better stats this year, but Williams had much better stats his first year. Overall, they are seperated by less than 100 yds, for their career, and just 4 TDs.

I'd trade my mother for Mike Williams. But, I doubt I'd trade the #3 pick to get him. Well, if all it took was the number 3 pick AND my Mom I'd do it. Besides, she always liked San Diego.

 

[B-Dogg]

I'd trade my mother for Mike Williams. But, I doubt I'd trade the #3 pick to get him. Well, if all it took was the number 3 pick AND my Mom I'd do it. Besides, she always liked San Diego. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yesssssss

 

[azdad1978]

Originally posted by D-Dogg
There's always this scenario too:

1) Chargers: Eli Manning
2) Raiders: Larry Fitzgerald
3) Cardinals: Mike Williams

Dude thats wishful thinking but I'll be happy if that happens to us!!!

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
I can't believe anyone would call Mike Williams a "product of a system". Yes, USC was good all round. But, Williams was the "straw that stirred the drink". If he was the only weapon on that offense his stats would've been much higher. He made his teammates better, they did not open things up for him. The defense constantly rolled double coverage on him.

Yes, Fitz had better stats this year, but Williams had much better stats his first year. Overall, they are seperated by less than 100 yds, for their career, and just 4 TDs.

I'd trade my mother for Mike Williams. But, I doubt I'd trade the #3 pick to get him. Well, if all it took was the number 3 pick AND my Mom I'd do it. Besides, she always liked San Diego.

It's the east coast media bias, people just can't believe a kid on the West Coast is this good.

Let's not tell anybody MW is from Florida, maybe that way he slips to #3.

 

[lrk27]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
It's the east coast media bias, people just can't believe a kid on the West Coast is this good.

Let's not tell anybody MW is from Florida, maybe that way he slips to #3.

Just like Carson Palmer and David Carr.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
It's the east coast media bias, people just can't believe a kid on the West Coast is this good.

Let's not tell anybody MW is from Florida, maybe that way he slips to #3.

Problem is Russ is that there is some substantion to that bias. If you beleive that Pac-10 football is as good overall as the Big Ten, SEC, Big East, and now the ACC well its not true.

Pac-10 football is generally not nearly as physical as any of the other conferences named.

I am from the East but watch all kinds of conferences including the MAC, Mountain West etc but East Coast football is justa better brand.

I dont want to get into a debate about this, and of course everyone will through out USC this year, but that is the exception not the rule.

 

[Ryanwb]

Originally posted by lrk27
Just like Carson Palmer and David Carr.

You're on a roll today!

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by lrk27
Just like Carson Palmer and David Carr.

Dare I say it? Nah.


No one can deny the way Fitz was hyped. On this very board, AFTER USC won the championship, many people had heard very little about Williams. Everyone knew about Fitzgerald and their accomplishments are almost identical.

 

[lrk27]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
Dare I say it? Nah.


No one can deny the way Fitz was hyped. On this very board, AFTER USC won the championship, many people had heard very little about Williams. Everyone knew about Fitzgerald and their accomplishments are almost identical.

I can only blame you if you had heard very little about Williams after his second season. Everyone else in the nation who follows football at all, knew about Williams and how good he is. The biggest difference is that the Big East has a deal with ESPN, so in their quest to annoint Miami as the greatest thing ever, they show a lot of other Big East games, like Pittsburgh. USC's only national games are on Fox Sports and TBS, otherwise they are only regional. There may be something to an east coast bias, but with Williams and Fitzgerald, it's just ridiculous to think that that is what separates them. EVERYONE knew (or should have) who Mike Williams was this year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by lrk27
Easy on the Mike Williams hype. Give it a week or two and everyone will be back to talking about Fitzgerald. Williams is a nice receiver, but is not as advanced as Fitz is right now. Fitzgerald is a top 3 pick, Williams is still a top ten, maybe a top five. After all the workouts, Fitzgerald will still come out as the top WR in the draft.

sorry man, i think you're completely crackers on this one. mike williams is faster than fitz and comes with better hands. oh yeah, and he's bigger. mike williams is the best player in this draft.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by lrk27
I can only blame you if you had heard very little about Williams after his second season. Everyone else in the nation who follows football at all, knew about Williams and how good he is. The biggest difference is that the Big East has a deal with ESPN, so in their quest to annoint Miami as the greatest thing ever, they show a lot of other Big East games, like Pittsburgh. USC's only national games are on Fox Sports and TBS, otherwise they are only regional. There may be something to an east coast bias, but with Williams and Fitzgerald, it's just ridiculous to think that that is what separates them. EVERYONE knew (or should have) who Mike Williams was this year.

I knew who he was. I knew he would be a great player the first time I saw him play as a freshman.

ESPN is the most watched sports channel. They were constantly pimping Fitz for the Heisman. Of course is played a role. But, now that the football people will call the shots, we'll see who they think is better.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
Problem is Russ is that there is some substantion to that bias. If you beleive that Pac-10 football is as good overall as the Big Ten, SEC, Big East, and now the ACC well its not true.

Pac-10 football is generally not nearly as physical as any of the other conferences named.

I am from the East but watch all kinds of conferences including the MAC, Mountain West etc but East Coast football is justa better brand.

I dont want to get into a debate about this, and of course everyone will through out USC this year, but that is the exception not the rule.

No I'm not saying the Pac 10 is as good top to bottom, but the best team in the Pac 10 beat the best team in the Big 10, quite handily. And the best player in the pac 10, by far, was MW.

The other part of it is simply that people on the East Coast see a lot less of west coast games, than people on the west coast do of east coast games because of the time difference.

You see it at Bowl time every year. Before the bowl games I made several posts about Aaron Rodgers, and at least a couple about Kenechi Udeze, most of the "yeah I agree posts" were from people like AJ who see a lot of the Pac 10 and agreed with me. After the Bowl games, Rodgers was suddenly a hot commodity, and Udeze might even go in the top 5 in the draft.

They didn't get better, the reality is a large section of the country had barely seen either of them play until the Bowl games.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by lrk27
Just like Carson Palmer and David Carr.

Palmer didn't play, Carr is doing fairly well for a guy who started on an expansion team, compare his first 2 years to say Aikman.

 

[lrk27]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Palmer didn't play, Carr is doing fairly well for a guy who started on an expansion team, compare his first 2 years to say Aikman.

We're not talking about how good they are, this is about East Coast bias and nobody believing that players from the West coast are any good. The last two #1 overalls were from schools in California. That's all I'm saying.