Miley Cyrus

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Miley is in that weird category as Hanson. Is she a guy or is she a girl?
 

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Baldy head Sinead can at least sing. Miley can go jump in a lake. :)

Mulli can go jump in a lake, Miley can jump any line in the country and buy and sale every one of us without running through her allowance. Mulli cracks jokes, Miley cracks the 200 million dollar barrier in a few months. Miley wines and dines, Mulli whines and diets. Miley wins.:D

Steve
 

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Mulli can go jump in a lake, Miley can jump any line in the country and buy and sale every one of us without running through her allowance. Mulli cracks jokes, Miley cracks the 200 million dollar barrier in a few months. Miley wines and dines, Mulli whines and diets. Miley wins.:D

Steve

So what? Milli Vanilli's albums went sextuple platinum. Their success did not vouch for their talent.

This girl is a product, and not even her own product. She belongs to her label. She's not making music. She's creating a culture spun from the dark corners of her media handling team. I doubt she remembers who she used to be. She's not a real person. She's a robot.

If she were not the daughter of a one-hit yokel, she would not have grown her childhood fanbase, and not a single person would know who she was. Her actual talent would have been recognized as pointless, redundant, and not worth anyone's time.

In music, talent is obvious. These are people sculpting their own music, involved in every process. It does not matter how many units it sold, especially in this post-radio environment where it requires over-the-top public scenes to draw attention. Talent is talent, and it is obvious to anyone who actually cares about music.

 
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AzStevenCal

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So what? Milli Vanilli's albums went sextuple platinum. Their success did not vouch for their talent.

This girl is a product, and not even her own product. She belongs to her label. She's not making music. She's creating a culture spun from the dark corners of her media handling team. I doubt she remembers who she used to be. She's not a real person. She's a robot.

If she were not the daughter of a one-hit yokel, she would not have grown her childhood fanbase, and not a single person would know who she was. Her actual talent would have been recognized as pointless, redundant, and not worth anyone's time.

In music, talent is obvious. These are people sculpting their own music, involved in every process. It does not matter how many units it sold, especially in this post-radio environment where it requires over-the-top public scenes to draw attention. Talent is talent, and it is obvious to anyone who actually cares about music.

I usually grant you instant credibility on just about any issue but this comment tells me all I need to know about you and this subject. We are viewing this through different lenses. Her job is to entertain and the scoreboard shows her to be a very successful entertainer. You may not appreciate country music but Billy Ray Cyrus is much more than just Achy-Breaky Heart. Talent may be talent but I love music as a fan, not as a musician, and I view each of them through that lens. You're ordering fine wine and I'm guzzling beer but it doesn't make me wrong. It just means I have a different palate. BTW, if this comes across like I'm calling you a music snob, well, my work here is done.;)

Steve
 

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I usually grant you instant credibility on just about any issue but this comment tells me all I need to know about you and this subject. We are viewing this through different lenses. Her job is to entertain and the scoreboard shows her to be a very successful entertainer. You may not appreciate country music but Billy Ray Cyrus is much more than just Achy-Breaky Heart. Talent may be talent but I love music as a fan, not as a musician, and I view each of them through that lens. You're ordering fine wine and I'm guzzling beer but it doesn't make me wrong. It just means I have a different palate. BTW, if this comes across like I'm calling you a music snob, well, my work here is done.;)

Steve

Music snob? Guilty as charged, I guess. Where else does this apply? If Charles Barkley and Dennis Rodman were mediocre athletes, would we still receive them as entertainers?

And are we really being entertained by their music, or are we just enjoying the royalty-like drama of public people making a public scene? It's all very post-modern and harshly lacking credibility to me, but maybe I'm less of a music snob and more of a 20th Century-ist. I still maintain art worth paying for requires meeting widely-accepted aesthetic standards, and I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt anyone named Cyrus could meet them if you handed them an instrument and required them to earn their dinner money performing.

So what we're really doing is celebrating a player in a reality play put on by the record industry, with funding supported by us buying the auto-tuned virtual reality we call Miley Cyrus' music.

And, BTW, there are some AMAZING country artists out there. No one named Cyrus is one of them, IMO.

 
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If she were not the daughter of a one-hit yokel, she would not have grown her childhood fanbase, and not a single person would know who she was. Her actual talent would have been recognized as pointless, redundant, and not worth anyone's time.

I also disagree with this. Billy Ray was much more than a one-hit wonder, yet alone a one-hit yokel.

 

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Yeah, when someone calls Billy Ray Cyrus a one-hit wonder (or some variation of that) it usually indicates they know very little about 90's country music (nothing wrong with that but it opens the door to erroreous comments). Again, as I've said about Miley, I'm not a fan but Billy has a lot more than one hit to his credit.

I can understand if someone wants to call him a no-talent yokel but he's had several top ten hits and his album "Some Gave All" is one of the most successful debut albums in any genre. There was such a tremendous backlash against him because of the enormous success of Achy-Breaky and the dance style it popularized that he's become a running joke to many people. But running joke or not, he's had a pretty successful career.

Steve
 

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And, BTW, there are some AMAZING country artists out there. No one named Cyrus is one of them, IMO.


I'm not familiar with this artist but I watched the video. I found it to be pleasant but not really my kind of music. In fact, it seemed much more like something Billy Ray Cyrus would do than anything I like to listen to. When I want to listen to country I gravitate more towards artists such as Fred Eaglesmith, Dallas Wayne, Dale Watson, Dwight Yoakam, Robert Earl Keen, Billy Joe Shaver, Allison Moorer and so on.

I'm curious, what is it you see in Dustin Lynch that warrants the label of talented that you would not apply to Billy Ray Cyrus?

Steve
 

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I'm not familiar with this artist but I watched the video. I found it to be pleasant but not really my kind of music. In fact, it seemed much more like something Billy Ray Cyrus would do than anything I like to listen to. When I want to listen to country I gravitate more towards artists such as Fred Eaglesmith, Dallas Wayne, Dale Watson, Dwight Yoakam, Robert Earl Keen, Billy Joe Shaver, Allison Moorer and so on.

I'm curious, what is it you see in Dustin Lynch that warrants the label of talented that you would not apply to Billy Ray Cyrus?

Steve

I don't think that song is is best example, but he's a gifted songwriter and and I know it was a personal one that the producer made a bit more generic for pop appeal.

I'm not even going to defend my country music credibility. I could tell you I was one impulsive decision away from joining my friend Bob Warren and Nashville to work for a Polygram songwriter that ended up helping shape the first BRC album. I could explain my family's somewhat sordid history with the Hank Williams clan. I could tell you how many people I know in Nashville right now, or have known the last 30 years.

But in truth, I have never had affinity for that music because, when it was time for me to ring that bell professionally, it had already become the same non-storytelling, over-produced, don't-be-creative-be-like-everyone-else hit factory that all the industries had become.

So if that's your music, more power to you. From my perspective country music stars are all pretending to be Hank Williams Jr., cut from the same boring cloth, singing the same "good ol boy" anthems, and many of them can't even play the guitar they insist on holding on stage. Their instrument is mostly a prop these days. Even Bosephus didn't have to pretend to so much. It's a long way from Hank Williams playing Tee Tot licks, singing songs about things that he actually lived and knew.

There is no music on this planet more corporate, more generic, more minted from the same foundation as country in the post-BRC era.
 

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I don't think that song is is best example, but he's a gifted songwriter and and I know it was a personal one that the producer made a bit more generic for pop appeal.

I'm not even going to defend my country music credibility. I could tell you I was one impulsive decision away from joining my friend Bob Warren and Nashville to work for a Polygram songwriter that ended up helping shape the first BRC album. I could explain my family's somewhat sordid history with the Hank Williams clan. I could tell you how many people I know in Nashville right now, or have known the last 30 years.

But in truth, I have never had affinity for that music because, when it was time for me to ring that bell professionally, it had already become the same non-storytelling, over-produced, don't-be-creative-be-like-everyone-else hit factory that all the industries had become.

So if that's your music, more power to you. From my perspective country music stars are all pretending to be Hank Williams Jr., cut from the same boring cloth, singing the same "good ol boy" anthems, and many of them can't even play the guitar they insist on holding on stage. Their instrument is mostly a prop these days. Even Bosephus didn't have to pretend to so much. It's a long way from Hank Williams playing Tee Tot licks, singing songs about things that he actually lived and knew.

There is no music on this planet more corporate, more generic, more minted from the same foundation as country in the post-BRC era.

Was there something in my post that made you think that modern day country (or modern day pop) was my kind of music? Are you really putting Eaglesmith and company in that group or was it just a stab in the dark? I can't stand what passes for country music and for me it began right about the time Willie, Waylon, David Allen Coe, Hank jr and others started singing about being outlaws.

I've never really been specifically a country fan, I pretty much named every country artist that appeals to me from the past decade or two. I love music and it's been a huge part of my life. Typically, at least in the past, my tastes coincided with whatever was popular. I'll admit, I have fairly simple tastes.

The music industry is worse now than it's ever been but it has long been this over-produced hit factory that turns out cookie cutter artists and cookie cutter songs. It didn't just start in the 90's.

Growing up, I never wanted to listen to just the Beatles. I wanted to listen to the Beatles but I also wanted to listen to The Sir Douglas Quintet. The music industry decided that Doug Sahm shouldn't sound like Doug Sahm any more, they insisted his little quartet had to get Beatles haircuts and mimic the Liverpool sound. They did the same thing with the Turtles and in England they did the same thing to Ray Davies and his group. That's what the music industry does. Gene Pitney was at the height of his popularity but the industry wanted to ride the British Invasion wave so they tossed him to the side. That's what they do and they've done it for at least the last 40 years.

But just because they pigeon-hole and package some young girl (or her father) into a particular role and start cashing huge checks off of them doesn't mean that young girl (or her father) lack talent. I happen to think both Miley and Billy Ray are reasonably talented entertainers. These guys keep trying to turn out these huge stars but they fail far more often than not. When they succeed, in the absence of a truly objective measurement of talent, I think it's reasonable to point to success as one way to gauge that talent level.

Steve
 
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So what? Milli Vanilli's albums went sextuple platinum. Their success did not vouch for their talent.

This girl is a product, and not even her own product. She belongs to her label. She's not making music. She's creating a culture spun from the dark corners of her media handling team. I doubt she remembers who she used to be. She's not a real person. She's a robot.

If she were not the daughter of a one-hit yokel, she would not have grown her childhood fanbase, and not a single person would know who she was. Her actual talent would have been recognized as pointless, redundant, and not worth anyone's time.

In music, talent is obvious. These are people sculpting their own music, involved in every process. It does not matter how many units it sold, especially in this post-radio environment where it requires over-the-top public scenes to draw attention. Talent is talent, and it is obvious to anyone who actually cares about music.



My sentiments exactly! :thumbup:
 

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Was there something in my post that made you think that modern day country (or modern day pop) was my kind of music? Are you really putting Eaglesmith and company in that group or was it just a stab in the dark? I can't stand what passes for country music and for me it began right about the time Willie, Waylon, David Allen Coe, Hank jr and others started singing about being outlaws.

I've never really been specifically a country fan, I pretty much named every country artist that appeals to me from the past decade or two. I love music and it's been a huge part of my life. Typically, at least in the past, my tastes coincided with whatever was popular. I'll admit, I have fairly simple tastes.

The music industry is worse now than it's ever been but it has long been this over-produced hit factory that turns out cookie cutter artists and cookie cutter songs. It didn't just start in the 90's.

Growing up, I never wanted to listen to just the Beatles. I wanted to listen to the Beatles but I also wanted to listen to The Sir Douglas Quintet. The music industry decided that Doug Sahm shouldn't sound like Doug Sahm any more, they insisted his little quartet had to get Beatles haircuts and mimic the Liverpool sound. They did the same thing with the Turtles and in England they did the same thing to Ray Davies and his group. That's what the music industry does. Gene Pitney was at the height of his popularity but the industry wanted to ride the British Invasion wave so they tossed him to the side. That's what they do and they've done it for at least the last 40 years.

But just because they pigeon-hole and package some young girl (or her father) into a particular role and start cashing huge checks off of them doesn't mean that young girl (or her father) lack talent. I happen to think both Miley and Billy Ray are reasonably talented entertainers. These guys keep trying to turn out these huge stars but they fail far more often than not. When they succeed, in the absence of a truly objective measurement of talent, I think it's reasonable to point to success as one way to gauge that talent level.

Steve

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Eaglesmith is a little outside of my range, but I'll take your word.

I consider Waylon Jennings a legitimate outlaw. LOL I was around when he was leaving the biz and hanging out with J. David Sloan and the Rogues. A lot of my friends ended up in the Rogues, who eventually became Lyle Lovett's band. Jennings never could get over the Buddy Holly plane crash, because he was supposed to be on it. He was a little crazy.

The guy that's sort of the godfather of Phoenix drummers (virtually everyone I know has studied with someone who studied with someone who started with him) is Pete Magadini. Pete's now a legendary jazz drummer, but he started in the Phoenix country scene playing with guys like Marty Robbins, Buck Owens and eventually Chet Atkins.

Because of that, I have the highest regard for country musicians.
 

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We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Eaglesmith is a little outside of my range, but I'll take your word.

I consider Waylon Jennings a legitimate outlaw. LOL I was around when he was leaving the biz and hanging out with J. David Sloan and the Rogues. A lot of my friends ended up in the Rogues, who eventually became Lyle Lovett's band. Jennings never could get over the Buddy Holly plane crash, because he was supposed to be on it. He was a little crazy.

The guy that's sort of the godfather of Phoenix drummers (virtually everyone I know has studied with someone who studied with someone who started with him) is Pete Magadini. Pete's now a legendary jazz drummer, but he started in the Phoenix country scene playing with guys like Marty Robbins, Buck Owens and eventually Chet Atkins.

Because of that, I have the highest regard for country musicians.


Eaglesmith is an acquired taste I guess. He sometimes gets compared to Tom Waits or John Prine and while I see similarities he's got his own style. I just emphasized him because whether you like him or not, it's hard to call his music over-produced and his unwillingness to bend to the industry has allowed his career to go mostly unnoticed.

As for Waylon, I was talking about the fact that they mainstreamed the "outlaw" gimmick. Artists such as Billy Joe Shaver and the Glasers (Tompall just passed away not long ago) were already outlaws as far as the music establishment was concerned. But somehow the industry managed to jump on the outlaw bandwagon and before you knew it, these outlaws were swallowed whole. Waylon's music changed after that and IMO by the 80's had become just as over produced and routine as anything Nashville was putting out. He might have forced the industry to let him use his own guys instead of the typical session musicians but it was a far cry from the days of the Waylors.

Steve
 

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Eaglesmith is an acquired taste I guess. He sometimes gets compared to Tom Waits or John Prine and while I see similarities he's got his own style. I just emphasized him because whether you like him or not, it's hard to call his music over-produced and his unwillingness to bend to the industry has allowed his career to go mostly unnoticed.

As for Waylon, I was talking about the fact that they mainstreamed the "outlaw" gimmick. Artists such as Billy Joe Shaver and the Glasers (Tompall just passed away not long ago) were already outlaws as far as the music establishment was concerned. But somehow the industry managed to jump on the outlaw bandwagon and before you knew it, these outlaws were swallowed whole. Waylon's music changed after that and IMO by the 80's had become just as over produced and routine as anything Nashville was putting out. He might have forced the industry to let him use his own guys instead of the typical session musicians but it was a far cry from the days of the Waylors.

Steve

Fair enough. Good conversation, sir. Also, agreed on Waylon's later efforts. It's hard to forgive him for the Dukes of Hazzard.
 

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I seriously doubt Billy Ray Cyrus had much of any pull on the decision-makers at DisneyTV who decided Miley could be a star.

If anything, those people would've seen BRC as irrelevant, or as a negative, when it came to making Miley "Hanna Montana".

Yeah, BRC was on the show, but he was obviously secondary to Miley.
 

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I was completely unaware of this trend. I don't watch or listen to country music (or pop music or rock music etc), I stick pretty much to my own library and add the occasional artist through word of mouth or soundtrack. I haven't listened to anything current on the radio or TV music channels in more than three decades. I had heard the Tim McGraw song (Southern Girl) and thought that country music be going through a bad spell if that's a top song. I've never cared for the lazy "let's name a few states so idiots from those regions will like us" approach to music. I did like the video you linked though I've never heard of him or or most of the artists on that list.

I wish I could link to YouTube. I'd post links to two songs by the same name (different songs though). One is a live version of "If That's Country" by Corey Smith and the other is a studio version by Dallas Wayne. Give them a listen, I suspect you'll agree with the sentiment in each song even if you don't care for the music.

Steve
 
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I wish I could link to YouTube. I'd post links to two songs by the same name (different songs though). One is a live version of "If That's Country" by Corey Smith and the other is a studio version by Dallas Wayne. Give them a listen, I suspect you'll agree with the sentiment in each song even if you don't care for the music.

Oh, YT is easy. Hit reply to this post and check out the youtube beginning/end tags at the bottom. The identifying number is the one that immediately follows "watch?v=" in the YouTube URL.

 
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