Miller once again does it again!

[TJ]

I’ve been saying it from the beginning, where there’s so much smoke . . .

Look I don’t want to see it happen. I was quick to exonerate when it looked like the reporting was faulty. But recent ESPN article about the multiple calls traced to a phone connected to Miller heaps more smoke. And in a dirty business (and we all know ncaa sports is dirty), smoke just means someone found evidence on miller that hasn’t been found in others.

Bummed if it sets back the program big time.

There literally is no news here. None. This is ESPN taking 247 and SI’s report from 8 months ago, removing information about the tapes vindicating Miller, and representing it as breaking news. If this is so big of a story, why haven’t any of the other news networks picked up on it? Even Fran Frachelia at ESPN discounted the report’s significance. So many people with inside info on the investigation outside of ESPN have distanced themselves from this Miller/Dawkins story because there’s nothing there.

Since ESPN has admitted to reviewing 3000 hours of tape, why hasn’t it come out and confirmed the Schlabach piece about Ayton?

 

[TJ]

Miller says one thing, someone else says another. If there wasn’t even a little bit of proof, why would the school investigate? The writing’s on the wall.

You investigate to find out the truth and cover your own butt. Plus, the school will have to have a conversation with the NCAA soon and will likely bring the results of said investigation up to escape significant punishment

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There literally is no news here. None. This is ESPN taking 247 and SI’s report from 8 months ago, removing information about the tapes vindicating Miller, and representing it as breaking news. If this is so big of a story, why haven’t any of the other news networks picked up on it? Even Fran Frachelia at ESPN discounted the report’s significance. So many people with inside info on the investigation outside of ESPN have distanced themselves from this Miller/Dawkins story because there’s nothing there.

Since ESPN has admitted to reviewing 3000 hours of tape, why hasn’t it come out and confirmed the Schlabach piece about Ayton?

Hmm I hope you’re right. I didn’t recall reading about the calls before.

 

[GatorAZ]

Since ESPN has admitted to reviewing 3000 hours of tape, why hasn’t it come out and confirmed the Schlabach piece about Ayton?

The Ayton tape doesn’t exist for the reasons we know. The timeline doesn’t make sense and Dawkins had no connection to Ayton. So far everything about Ayton has either been Kansas related and his “friend” receiving 15k to give to Ayton in HS. If ESPN has tapes of Miller committing a crime and breaking NCAA rules I doubt they’d be sitting on it for the right time considering their constant jumping-the-gun reporting.

The thing that always made me nervous was Quinerly but he’s been investigated and cleared.

https://www.vuhoops.com/villanova-b...uitment-new-nba-g-league-policy-one-and-dones

 

[overseascardfan]

So I get nothing new on the scandal front but there is a meeting scheduled with AZ BOR to discuss future of UA basketball, "immediate action will not be taken in meeting" according to Arizona Daily Star. I believe he met with BOR to change wording in his contract to state if he is found to have involvement in scandal, they could recoup some money, correct? I just do not understand why would they need to meet now?

 

[Chaplin]

So I get nothing new on the scandal front but there is a meeting scheduled with AZ BOR to discuss future of UA basketball, "immediate action will not be taken in meeting" according to Arizona Daily Star. I believe he met with BOR to change wording in his contract to state if he is found to have involvement in scandal, they could recoup some money, correct? I just do not understand why would they need to meet now?

That's the point. Why now? Right after the trial happened, they're meeting? Why not back in February, when these allegations apparently were released?

I think a couple UA fans here are overly optimistic without knowing all the facts.

 

[TJ]

That's the point. Why now? Right after the trial happened, they're meeting? Why not back in February, when these allegations apparently were released?

I think a couple UA fans here are overly optimistic without knowing all the facts.

It’s not optimism. It’s facts. This meeting was always going to happen irrespective of The rehashing of this story.

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The knee-jerk reaction is from people who haven’t been paying attention and are headline readers. We’ve known about this for 8 months. Just because someone brings it up now doesn’t mean it has any impact on anything.

 

[TJ]

The Ayton tape doesn’t exist for the reasons we know. The timeline doesn’t make sense and Dawkins had no connection to Ayton. So far everything about Ayton has either been Kansas related and his “friend” receiving 15k to give to Ayton in HS. If ESPN has tapes of Miller committing a crime and breaking NCAA rules I doubt they’d be sitting on it for the right time considering their constant jumping-the-gun reporting.

The thing that always made me nervous was Quinerly but he’s been investigated and cleared.

https://www.vuhoops.com/villanova-b...uitment-new-nba-g-league-policy-one-and-dones

As has Little.

These are all good things for Arizona

 

[Willie D]

I haven't read the AZ Non-Profit Corporation Act for a while (10 ARS 3201 &c), but I believe they, as a public non-profit entity are required to observe the Open Meeting Law. The OML allows for "executive sessions" only in limited instances, such as:

1. Communications from counsel subject to attorney/alient privilege;
2. Pending or contemplated litigation, as either plaintiff or defendant;
3. Pending or contemplated action against a board member;
4. The health, performance, or financial records of any individual employee of the corporation;
5. The health, performance, or financial records of any individual employee of a vendor or contractor that serves the corporation.

Otherwise, all meetings and decisions must be held in the open, with proper advance notice.

 

[Russ Smith]

Hmm I hope you’re right. I didn’t recall reading about the calls before.

They were in a prior story but I don't recall anybody being this specific, 13 calls of at least 5 minutes in length, and several more calls that were not counted because they were 1 minute or less. If you just do the minimum that means at least 15 calls between Miller and Dawkins, I don't think I ever saw that number in the prior story.

The other part that's pretty clearly new IMO is that the defense tried to submit these calls into the trial that just ended as evidence but the judge denied it. In their submission they said Sean Miller was identified by the FBI as one of the "targets" in their wire tap requests. That doesn't mean TJ isn't right and there's no content in the taps that's bad, but when they submitted the paperwork to get permission to do the wiretaps, Sean Miller was one of the people they identified as a "target". I sure don't recall ever reading that before. They also pointed out for some reason there's many other calls between Miller and Dawkins that were not actually wiretapped, they don't explain why, sounds like some sort of glitch, but the 15 number is only the ones they actually successfully wiretapped, there were more.

Yes lots of coaches probably talked to Dawkins, he was brokering a kid they all wanted, of course they talked to him. But the Scheer(sic) number of calls between Dawkins and Miller has to make you wonder if this is literally a coach saying over and over I really like that player, we can find room for him to get minutes even if Trier comes back, and then finally when asked to pay money to get Bowen, Miller said oh no we don't do that. Miller said after the ESPN story that the only time he ever discussed money with someone for a player was when someone asked him to pay for a kid, he said no, and the kid didn't go to Arizona. Arizona fans insist that kid was Bowen. Everyone likes to point out that nobody has released a tape or transcript of Miller breaking any rules yet, I would also add nobody has released a tape of him being asked to pay Bowen and saying no. That would have been EXTREMELY relevant in the last case if it existed since the defense was trying to prove coaches knew what was going on. The 2 best ways to prove that were have a coach on tape agreeing to pay a kid, or have a coach on tape being asked for money and saying no.

I think it's odd how sunk in ESPN is on this. this story is literally Schlabach's career, it either is the story that pushes his career forward, or gets him fired. He clearly thinks he's right, it's odd he's going to this length but clearly ESPN believes he's right too or they wouldn't be letting him do this. I think they're smart enough to know all the hits from people reading the story won't matter if Schlabach is wrong.

It's going to be fascinating to see how it turns out.

 

[TJ]

This was always the case, but just to put minds at ease

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[TJ]

I actually agree with Russ. Schlabach is going all-in with this Miller story with the dealer showing 10 and he has a 6 on the table

 

[GatorAZ]

They were in a prior story but I don't recall anybody being this specific, 13 calls of at least 5 minutes in length, and several more calls that were not counted because they were 1 minute or less. If you just do the minimum that means at least 15 calls between Miller and Dawkins, I don't think I ever saw that number in the prior story.

The other part that's pretty clearly new IMO is that the defense tried to submit these calls into the trial that just ended as evidence but the judge denied it. In their submission they said Sean Miller was identified by the FBI as one of the "targets" in their wire tap requests. That doesn't mean TJ isn't right and there's no content in the taps that's bad, but when they submitted the paperwork to get permission to do the wiretaps, Sean Miller was one of the people they identified as a "target". I sure don't recall ever reading that before. They also pointed out for some reason there's many other calls between Miller and Dawkins that were not actually wiretapped, they don't explain why, sounds like some sort of glitch, but the 15 number is only the ones they actually successfully wiretapped, there were more.

Yes lots of coaches probably talked to Dawkins, he was brokering a kid they all wanted, of course they talked to him. But the Scheer(sic) number of calls between Dawkins and Miller has to make you wonder if this is literally a coach saying over and over I really like that player, we can find room for him to get minutes even if Trier comes back, and then finally when asked to pay money to get Bowen, Miller said oh no we don't do that. Miller said after the ESPN story that the only time he ever discussed money with someone for a player was when someone asked him to pay for a kid, he said no, and the kid didn't go to Arizona. Arizona fans insist that kid was Bowen. Everyone likes to point out that nobody has released a tape or transcript of Miller breaking any rules yet, I would also add nobody has released a tape of him being asked to pay Bowen and saying no. That would have been EXTREMELY relevant in the last case if it existed since the defense was trying to prove coaches knew what was going on. The 2 best ways to prove that were have a coach on tape agreeing to pay a kid, or have a coach on tape being asked for money and saying no.

I think it's odd how sunk in ESPN is on this. this story is literally Schlabach's career, it either is the story that pushes his career forward, or gets him fired. He clearly thinks he's right, it's odd he's going to this length but clearly ESPN believes he's right too or they wouldn't be letting him do this. I think they're smart enough to know all the hits from people reading the story won't matter if Schlabach is wrong.

It's going to be fascinating to see how it turns out.

I still don’t understand why detailed Bill Self texts are allowed but not audio of Miller considering he’s talking to Dawkins who was on trial. Not only that but details of an alleged Ayton payment of 15k, an alleged Little offer from Arizona plus the Pasternack connection were allowed through but not Miller? I’ve always thought Miller wouldn’t mind the tapes being released because I don’t think he’s dumb enough to negotiate payments (allegedly) over the phone. Not to mention the other ESPN inconsistencies.

 

[Russ Smith]

I still don’t understand why detailed Bill Self texts are allowed but not audio of Miller considering he’s talking to Dawkins who was on trial. Not only that but details of an alleged Ayton payment of 15k, an alleged Little offer from Arizona plus the Pasternack connection were allowed through but not Miller? I’ve always thought Miller wouldn’t mind the tapes being released because I don’t think he’s dumb enough to negotiate payments (allegedly) over the phone. Not to mention the other ESPN inconsistencies.

I don't understand either to be honest. they let in some stuff that made Self look bad, and didn't allow the alleged cash offer to Zion Williamson from Adidas, the alleged phone calls etc with dawkins and Miller and some other stuff. I'm not entirely clear what criteria the judge used on what to allow and what not to. I'm guessing the texts with Self were allowed because they included Gatto who was the guy on trial, whereas the stuff with Code was him telling Kurtis Townsend of Kansas that Zion's dad asked for money and a job, so it wasn't a first hand account and it was an assitant not a head coach. The defense was trying to show the coaches were in on it so maybe the judge drew a line that assistants were on one side and head coaches on the other, don't really know.

Kansas definitely got the biggest hit from the first trial but that's what should have been expected since it was Adidas guys on trial and Kansas was the big Adidas school. I'm sure if they do the same thing in the next 2 trials more schools might get in trouble.

 

[overseascardfan]

It’s not optimism. It’s facts. This meeting was always going to happen irrespective of The rehashing of this story.

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The knee-jerk reaction is from people who haven’t been paying attention and are headline readers. We’ve known about this for 8 months. Just because someone brings it up now doesn’t mean it has any impact on anything.

I wouldn't call it knee jerk, first article was very ambiguous as to the purpose of the meeting. Miller mentioned in Arizona Daily Star article that he has been in in constant contact with someone on Board of Regents, so if that's true why meet? Apparently, its to discuss legal advice per ESPN, AZ Central could have mentioned that in their first article instead of a follow up 5 hours later.

 

[GatorAZ]

I don't understand either to be honest. they let in some stuff that made Self look bad, and didn't allow the alleged cash offer to Zion Williamson from Adidas, the alleged phone calls etc with dawkins and Miller and some other stuff. I'm not entirely clear what criteria the judge used on what to allow and what not to. I'm guessing the texts with Self were allowed because they included Gatto who was the guy on trial, whereas the stuff with Code was him telling Kurtis Townsend of Kansas that Zion's dad asked for money and a job, so it wasn't a first hand account and it was an assitant not a head coach. The defense was trying to show the coaches were in on it so maybe the judge drew a line that assistants were on one side and head coaches on the other, don't really know.

Kansas definitely got the biggest hit from the first trial but that's what should have been expected since it was Adidas guys on trial and Kansas was the big Adidas school. I'm sure if they do the same thing in the next 2 trials more schools might get in trouble.

KU got thru that with only one headline article. Meanwhile ESPN is on the edge of their seat for Thursday’s ABOR meeting!

I don’t want to really see anyone go down but I’d love to see Duke implicated somehow.

 

[Russ Smith]

KU got thru that with only one headline article. Meanwhile ESPN is on the edge of their seat for Thursday’s ABOR meeting!

I don’t want to really see anyone go down but I’d love to see Duke implicated somehow.

It's definitely odd. I know ESPN is a big Duke honk but the lack of coverage by them since the trial about Zion is pretty startling. IMO the biggest revelation that came out of that trial is his dad asking Kansas for money, true or not. If he was a freshman at Arizona right now I think we all know ESPN would be all over that story, and with Coach K 2 days earlier calling the FBI stuff a "blip" I think ESPN should be all over Coach K now to get his feedback on it but they're not. Other outlets have done stories and pointed it out, ESPN mentioned it, but that's been it.

We obviously have no idea if Zion did get paid or not but the fact that it came out in trial that Merl Code says the dad asked Adidas to pay him to go to Kansas and he's not at Kansas sure makes it seem likely that a similar offer was done to get him to Duke. Especially when everyone around that recruitment seems to agree it was a big surprise he picked Duke.

 

[overseascardfan]

It's definitely odd. I know ESPN is a big Duke honk but the lack of coverage by them since the trial about Zion is pretty startling. IMO the biggest revelation that came out of that trial is his dad asking Kansas for money, true or not. If he was a freshman at Arizona right now I think we all know ESPN would be all over that story, and with Coach K 2 days earlier calling the FBI stuff a "blip" I think ESPN should be all over Coach K now to get his feedback on it but they're not. Other outlets have done stories and pointed it out, ESPN mentioned it, but that's been it.

We obviously have no idea if Zion did get paid or not but the fact that it came out in trial that Merl Code says the dad asked Adidas to pay him to go to Kansas and he's not at Kansas sure makes it seem likely that a similar offer was done to get him to Duke. Especially when everyone around that recruitment seems to agree it was a big surprise he picked Duke.

Particularly since he was viewed as a wing player and they already had commitments from the #1 player in the country who played the same position then as well as Cameron Reddish who was also listed at a wing. Of course Zion bulked up so he may shift to PF, Barrett and Reddish most likely SF & SG so they can all play together at the same time. Did not know Williamson was a surprise to Duke since he is in their back yard in SC.

 

[Russ Smith]

Particularly since he was viewed as a wing player and they already had commitments from the #1 player in the country who played the same position then as well as Cameron Reddish who was also listed at a wing. Of course Zion bulked up so he may shift to PF, Barrett and Reddish most likely SF & SG so they can all play together at the same time. Did not know Williamson was a surprise to Duke since he is in their back yard in SC.

Heading into the announcement, Clemson was the favorite and then UNC. Here is SI for example "The decision surprised most familiar with Williamson’s recruitment. A much less heralded program, Clemson, was viewed as the favorite in the leadup to the announcement."

in fact ironically enough people were getting ready to scream cheating when he committed to Clemson because nobody could understand why he'd pick the local team over UNC, UNC fans were doing pre emptive strikes, Clemson is trying to buy him blah blah, and then he picked Duke. The day before he announced I was sitting on the couch talking with 2 guys one of whom is a huge Tarheel fan. he kept saying he thinks he'll pick UNC, he said he will shock the world so Clemson being the favorite won't get him. He actually said it's good he's apparently turning down the cash and picking UNC. Later I saw him post on FB how stunned he was when Duke was announced.

I know it's unusual Duke is usually the favorite, but they were not for Zion.

 

[GatorAZ]

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Sheer has been a good follow through all of this but I’m sure the significance of Schlabach declining an interview with him. There was a 0% chance of that interview ever happening. As long as there are wiretaps that weren’t released ESPN can never be technically proven wrong as much as we all know they’re BS.

 

[TJ]

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Sheer has been a good follow through all of this but I’m sure the significance of Schlabach declining an interview with him. There was a 0% chance of that interview ever happening. As long as there are wiretaps that weren’t released ESPN can never be technically proven wrong as much as we all know they’re BS.

Scheer annoys the poo out of a lot of non-UofA (and some UofA fans), but he's been spot-on with almost everything in this investigation from an Arizona angle. Also love how he set up Schlabach with this text.

I think Scheer knows something significant that we don't. He's alluded to ESPN handcuffing Schlabach since March and disallowing him to perpetuate the story. Perhaps protecting ESPN from a lawsuit?

 

[GatorAZ]

Scheer annoys the **** out of a lot of non-UofA (and some UofA fans), but he's been spot-on with almost everything in this investigation from an Arizona angle. Also love how he set up Schlabach with this text.

I think Scheer knows something significant that we don't. He's alluded to ESPN handcuffing Schlabach since March and disallowing him to perpetuate the story. Perhaps protecting ESPN from a lawsuit?

The 247 crew has been great throughout this entire ordeal. Even the national guys like Evan Daniels have questioned the report before anyone else. Sheer has his own style that takes getting used to but he’s not afraid to go against ESPN. That takes balls. We are lucky to have them.

A lawsuit would be tough. Arizona and Miller would need someone on the inside to come forward from ESPN after this thing is over. It’s obvious they’re picking and choosing what to report. Yesterday it was reported by an Oregon outlet that a Ducks assistant coach logged over 2 hrs of calls with Dawkins which ESPN didn’t report. Self has had direct texts with Gassnola in which he basically apologized to Self that Ayton didn’t go there. You’d think that’d be a bigger deal than call logs without transcripts or useless ABOR meetings.

 

[Russ Smith]

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Sheer has been a good follow through all of this but I’m sure the significance of Schlabach declining an interview with him. There was a 0% chance of that interview ever happening. As long as there are wiretaps that weren’t released ESPN can never be technically proven wrong as much as we all know they’re BS.

Not to mention that Scheer has spent literally months harassing Schlabach and ESPN online both on their pages and on his own page.

I also find it ironic that he has openly complained that ESPN keeps putting in stories that Miller declined to respond to ESPN, or Arizona is not complying with requests to see Millers phone and text records citing Arizona rules etc, and he does the exact same thing and asks for an interview he know won't happen just so he can say see he declined my interview what's he hiding.

To be clear, that's why ESPN puts that stuff in articles too, they want to create the appearance Miller and Arizona are ducking them when in reality it's pretty clear Miller has been told NOT to comment, and the school is following their internal policies. But Scheer doing the same thing and then complaining about it is just who he is as an online presence.

 

[Russ Smith]

The 247 crew has been great throughout this entire ordeal. Even the national guys like Evan Daniels have questioned the report before anyone else. Sheer has his own style that takes getting used to but he’s not afraid to go against ESPN. That takes balls. We are lucky to have them.

A lawsuit would be tough. Arizona and Miller would need someone on the inside to come forward from ESPN after this thing is over. It’s obvious they’re picking and choosing what to report. Yesterday it was reported by an Oregon outlet that a Ducks assistant coach logged over 2 hrs of calls with Dawkins which ESPN didn’t report. Self has had direct texts with Gassnola in which he basically apologized to Self that Ayton didn’t go there. You’d think that’d be a bigger deal than call logs without transcripts or useless ABOR meetings.

It also depends what ARizona would sue over. We've had this discussion over and over for months on BRO, every lawyer on that site says the same thing, if Arizona sues for defamation or libel they will lose because even if they can prove the story is false, they can't prove ESPN and Schlabach KNEW it was false. Both libel and defamation from what they're all saying requires the story is untrue, the story materially harmed the other party, and the the person writing the story knew it was untrue. In this case the story could be untrue, it clearly has harmed Arizona, but there's no evidence ESPN knows it's untrue.

And one guy the other day suggested just that, if I'm the legal counsel for ESPN or Schlabach the last thing I'm doing is admitting my story might be wrong if I'm not sure it is, as long as I am insisting the story is true, it makes it much harder for them to win a lawsuit against me.

 

[TJ]

It also depends what ARizona would sue over. We've had this discussion over and over for months on BRO, every lawyer on that site says the same thing, if Arizona sues for defamation or libel they will lose because even if they can prove the story is false, they can't prove ESPN and Schlabach KNEW it was false. Both libel and defamation from what they're all saying requires the story is untrue, the story materially harmed the other party, and the the person writing the story knew it was untrue. In this case the story could be untrue, it clearly has harmed Arizona, but there's no evidence ESPN knows it's untrue.

And one guy the other day suggested just that, if I'm the legal counsel for ESPN or Schlabach the last thing I'm doing is admitting my story might be wrong if I'm not sure it is, as long as I am insisting the story is true, it makes it much harder for them to win a lawsuit against me.

Arizona has an hill to climb if it wants to sue. I can tell you that the athletic department has done more investigative work this week to see if there is any additional legal approaches it can take. Arizona is obviously being targeted here by ESPN staff

The mere fact that a lawsuit is seriously being discussed in this case shows how poorly ESPN mishandled this whole situation.