Mocks for Suns

Black Jesus

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#15
X 4 ----- JaVale McGee
X 3 ----- Kosta Koufos
X 3 ----- Chris Douglas-Roberts
X 3 ----- Donte Greene
X 2 ----- Chase Budinger

X 2 ----- Darrell Arthur
X 1 ----- Roy Hibbert
X 1 ----- Russell Westbrook
X 1 ----- Joe Alexander
X 1 ----- Nicolas Batum
X 1 ----- Brandon Rush


#49
X 2 ----- Pat Calathes
X 1 ----- JR Giddens
X 1 ----- Wayne Ellington
X 1 ----- Josh Shipp
X 1 ----- Malik Hairston
 

YouJustGotSUNSD

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A guy that I'm keeping an eye on is Nicholas Batum - he shot up the boards last year and then decided to withdraw. He had a decent but not great year and is suddenly being overlooked. I think he would be a solid addition to this club if he's available. The downside: he's French.

Not only is he French, his biggest criticism is that he is passive and seems to underperform too often.

**** that noise.
 

PhxGametime

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Budinger isn't my top choice but IMO would be a good fit, although he's not the defender the next Suns Coach would be looking for.


I do remember not too long ago, this board was talking about Diogu being a top-10 Pick and Frye being a 2nd Rounder at best (soft was the complaint) lol and not too many fans here were high on Iguodala REALLY until his Draft combine... and not too many fans here are high on Bayless this year lol
 

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"The problem is he’s extremely far from reaching his full potential—so far that you have to wonder if he’ll ever make it considering the way he looks at times on the court. Struggles to establish position and finish in the paint, settles for some incredibly awkward off-balance shots, and is virtually a black hole with his passing skills—averaging 4 turnovers for every 1 assist. Looks very disinterested at times, doesn’t hustle, gives up on plays, late getting back down the floor, and might be the worst man to man defender we’ve ever evaluated in the post. Gets pushed around, gambles excessively for steals, has no stance or fundamentals, doesn’t move his feet, and is a complete non-factor even against the mediocre competition he faces. According to Synergy’s “PlayType QuickTable stats,” McGee was scored on 66% of the time when being posted up in the paint (against the likes of Fresno State, Utah State, Houston, etc). Is light years away from being able to compete on an NBA level defensively, if ever."


So you guys want to pair a black hole, who gets scored 66% of the time he gets posted in college, with amare? I can see it now, the suns giving up 80 points a game in the paint. What about the calls for defense that seemed to overwhelm the board here? What about defense?
 

Covert Rain

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The last thing this team needs is another offensive minded big man.

DEFENSE

DEFENSE

DEFENSE
 

PoolBoy

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if we are not going to play defense, then take donte green. seriously. i think he would be great in the run and gun, but if we are going to play like the pistons...PASS. same with budinger, but chase sucks all around.
 
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jlove

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"The problem is he’s extremely far from reaching his full potential—so far that you have to wonder if he’ll ever make it considering the way he looks at times on the court. Struggles to establish position and finish in the paint, settles for some incredibly awkward off-balance shots, and is virtually a black hole with his passing skills—averaging 4 turnovers for every 1 assist. Looks very disinterested at times, doesn’t hustle, gives up on plays, late getting back down the floor, and might be the worst man to man defender we’ve ever evaluated in the post. Gets pushed around, gambles excessively for steals, has no stance or fundamentals, doesn’t move his feet, and is a complete non-factor even against the mediocre competition he faces. According to Synergy’s “PlayType QuickTable stats,” McGee was scored on 66% of the time when being posted up in the paint (against the likes of Fresno State, Utah State, Houston, etc). Is light years away from being able to compete on an NBA level defensively, if ever."


So you guys want to pair a black hole, who gets scored 66% of the time he gets posted in college, with amare? I can see it now, the suns giving up 80 points a game in the paint. What about the calls for defense that seemed to overwhelm the board here? What about defense?


From NBAdraft.net

Strengths: Long athletic bigman who is absolutely bursting with potential … Runs the floor exceptionally well … Improving at a rapid pace on both ends of the floor. Has freakishly long arms: around a 7-6 wingspan which makes him a great rebounder and shot blocker … Can really become a force defensively when he adds strength and discipline on opponent's shot fakes … His length makes it extremely difficult for opponents to get shots over … His offensive game is showing a lot of promise with developing back to the basket skills. He even shows some ability to face the basket and make drives or spot up … Has a competitive spirit that is not apparent in many bigmen who picked up the game because of their size. A late bloomer who went underrecruited out of Chicago. McGee's parents were both professional basketball players so he has been around the game from a young age … Shows solid form and touch on his shot … Has a tremendous frame which should allow him to get much stronger and retain his great agility and athleticism … Gives great effort and shows very good stamina for a bigman his age … Added strength will give him better balance and make him a lot more effective imposing his will inside … Has the potential to be a top 5-10 center in the league someday (if he's patient about entering the NBA) … Has even shown the ability to knock down shots from college 3, no question influenced by the presence of Nick Fazekas last year …

Weaknesses: Still must gain maturity. He gets frustrated far too easily and loses his composure quickly when calls go against him, or when he's struggling … Still growing into his body and game, learning what he's capable of and steadily becoming a factor night in and night out … Needs to develop some go to moves. A reliable jump hook would make him an absolute force … Must improve from the free throw line (50% won't cut it). He has solid shooting touch and should be able to raise his FT shooting to at least 70-75 percent over time if he develops a consistent routine and works at it … Should be wary of leaving school early. It's likely he would be a first rounder this year, but a third year in college would really help him in the long run as he would be much better prepared for the NBA and not run the risk of losing confidence and falling short of his full potential …

From DraftExpress.com
JaVale McGee Workout: The Big Secret
May 20, 2008
DraftExpress was given exclusive access to observe a private workout of Nevada early entrant JaVale McGee at an undisclosed location. McGee has been training away from his collegiate settings for the past six weeks in preparation for the draft, shunning the services of big-name trainers to hone his talents with his agent Roosevelt Barnes.

Some eyebrows were raised after McGee made his decision to choose Barnes to represent him, given that his primary area of expertise is representing NFL players. However, many do not know that Barnes himself was a point guard on Purdue’s final four team of the 1980’s and was a former CBA player (in addition to playing linebacker for the Detroit Lions) before his work as a sports agent. With the assistance of a former CBA coach, Barnes put McGee through a grueling on-court workout that he feels is unparalleled to that any other potential draftees will encounter.

While JaVale McGee’s name has been on the NBA radar all season long, many teams are not quite as familiar with this him as they are other top center prospects from high-major conferences. While Nevada had a large number of games on national television in the 06-07 season due to the presence of All-American Nick Fazekas, they were on national television only a handful of times this past season and die-hards were forced to scour through regional channels to catch a glimpse of McGee. As an unknown compared to his draft counterparts, Barnes said that McGee has earned himself the nickname: “The Big Secret”.

The workout began with McGee (along with two other 6’10 plus players) going through a series of stretching drills to get loose. The stretching session and warm-up lasted for around 20 minutes with a series of footwork drills through ladders to follow. Like the usual ladder drills, Barnes instructed the players to put “two feet in, one foot out” to start off, showing off the foot speed of the three big men. It was clear that McGee was head and shoulders above the competition in these drills, which should be expected since one of the players has been training for a week and another only one day. A number of different footwork drills followed with variation and pace differentiated in an attempt to achieve optimal coordination.

From the footwork, the players moved to full court ball-handling drills. Switching between oversized basketballs the same weight as normal ones and regular NBA game balls, the players went through a number of drills. JaVale excelled yet again in this area, showing off very impressive ball-handling and coordination skills for a 7-footer, while smoothly wrapping the ball around his back and swiftly crossing it over.

Barnes and his assistant then set up a number of small discs on the floor, which the players were to weave within while handling the ball. The Nevada sophomore showed off an outstanding handle for a player playing the center position. Fluidly handling the ball with both his left and right hands, he utilized his long arms to keep the ball very low to the ground. It was definitely an impressive showing for the big man as far as handling the rock was concerned.

The training staff started the one on one series by having the players simulate a pick and pop situation, then playing one on one with three dribbles once they had the ball in their hands. McGee looked especially comfortable in this drill, showing off his first step and ability to attack the basket, especially when going right.

Shifting from the half court game, the players that began doing a series of full court one on one games, dribbling at about 50% to half court and then passing the ball to one of the trainers, only to have it fired back and be forced to play the game with only three dribbles. This drill showed how much a player could create in a short period of time, and McGee excelled. Using his long strides to the rim, he was able to get around opposing defenders in situations that his path appeared to be cut off. The long limbs that McGee possesses enabled him to create shots at very awkward angles that the majority of players are unable to, therefore allowing him to score on possessions thought to be dead. As one can imagine, there were some jaw dropping dunks by the sophomore once he made his way to the bucket in these drills.

When the full court one on one concluded, the players moved to shooting drills. Shooting NBA and collegiate three pointers from seven different spots on the floor, the players were charted shooting 70 shots from beyond the arc at each distance. McGee worked on his fundamentals by stepping into his shot equally with both his left and right feet, and had average results shooting the ball from the perimeter. A 33.3% shooter from the land of three in real-game college settings, he shot 38.5% (27/70) from the NBA three point line and 42.8% (30/70) from the collegiate line in the workout drills.

Switching from skills to explosiveness, the trainees then began doing a series of drop steps for dunks with an 8 pound medicine ball. McGee was clearly the best of the three in this drill, displaying outstanding lower body strength and easily slamming ball after ball. The players went towards both the middle of the court and towards the baseline, with McGee pacing the group with 26 and 25 slams in each direction respectively.

With conditioning seeming to be the focus of the workout, the group moved to full court post one on one next. The three would alternate going up and down the floor, taking a one possession break in between going through the drills offensively and defensively. This was our lone chance to observe JaVale in the low post, and he was able to score on the duo primarily through a series of turnaround jumpers off the glass. Aside from those turnaround bank shots, he still looked a bit raw with his back to the basket and will need to continue to improve on this area of his game if he hopes to play with his back to the basket in the NBA.

The grueling three plus hour workout came to a conclusion with the players jogging from NBA three point line to NBA three point line and shooting three pointers, before moving in to the collegiate three point line and 17 foot area. By this time the players were physically drained, yet were forced to make 20 or so jumpers from each spot before their workout came to a conclusion.

The workout put on by Barnes was different than those of other trainers observed, primarily due to his focus on conditioning just as much as actual on court basketball training. Basically every drill involved some sort of full court running and was done with high intensity. Interestingly enough, as if these drills weren’t enough conditioning, the players also do a series of track workouts and hit the weights 4 days a week. The former basketball and football player-turned agent seems to have his mind set on what will best prepare his client for the NBA Draft and from what we saw, it appears that he’s doing a pretty good job thus far.

Physically, much has changed for McGee since leaving Reno to come train with Barnes. Listed at 237 pounds, the big man came into training weighing around the 228 pound mark. Since then, McGee has begun working diligently in terms of sculpting his body and improving his core strength. With his added 8 pounds of muscle, he now legitimately weighs 237 pounds and has body fat hovering around the 5.7% area according to Barnes. Still relatively underdeveloped in terms of upper body strength, the son of WNBA great Pam McGee has a very sturdy lower body that bolsters his explosive leaping ability. Throw in a 7’6 wingspan, the ability to run the floor like a deer, and a frame that could easily add another 20 pounds and it’s easy to see why he’s such an interesting prospect.
For a player standing a legit seven feet, there is plenty of intrigue with the raw skills that he possesses from the outside. Shooting the ball, he owns NBA range and shows flashes of being a threat from there with improved fundamentals. McGee was a bit streaky in the drills often hitting 3 or 4 threes in a row before missing an equal amount in sequence. Much of this hinges on his tendency to dip the ball below his waist from time to time, which drastically affects his shooting accuracy. With his size and quick release, the fact that McGee shoots more of a set shot is not as big of a concern as it would be for a player standing 6’8 or 6’9.

When facing the basket, JaVale uses his long strides and quick rip-throughs to get to the rim, usually finishing acrobatically around the basket. He moves around on the floor unlike most seven footers, looking completely normal putting the ball on the floor from 20 feet away from the hoop. McGee’s large hands and long arms allow him to move the ball around in the air a bit in order to finish around the cup, which he did especially well with his right hand. McGee is still far from a finished product in terms of his offensive skill set, but the raw skills he does possess when facing leave optimism for his growth in the area down the road.

Given the minimal opportunity to watch McGee in the low post, we didn’t really have much to evaluate. He showed off a few gorgeous fade-away jumpers turning towards his right shoulder, which he elegantly kissed off the glass. That aside he made a number of awkward one handed swooping shots through the paint, via extending his super long arms around defenders. There is still much room for improvement in the low post for the Nevada big man though, especially in terms of footwork in the pivot and finishing with his left hand Despite owning a very strong lower body JaVale, did not show great balance when faced with physical play in the low post. His lack of balance on the blocks hindered him mightily, and uncoincidentally he tended to go towards turnaround jumpers from the post, rather than power moves towards the rim.

After struggling mightily with his on the ball defense during the collegiate season, McGee appears to be making strides as a man to man defender. While the players that he was pegged against were not anywhere near the caliber of the draftees he’s going to be matched against in the upcoming weeks, he did a very nice job of eliminating any separation that opposing offensive players have created. The added explosiveness that JaVale has added has enhanced his closing speed on the defensive end, as if his shot blocking ability weren’t already enough. McGee has already established himself as one of the elite help-side defenders in the draft and seems to be making the right steps to becoming a more complete defender.

Workouts will be crucial for McGee separating himself from the slew of fellow big men that could be picked in the late lottery to mid-first round. Names such as Kevin Love, Kosta Koufos, Anthony Randolph, DeAndre Jordan, Marreese Speights, Alexis Ajinca, and Roy Hibbert will certainly be amongst those JaVale has to face in order to distinguish himself from the group of big men slotted around picks 10 through 25. McGee will not be participating in the Orlando Pre-Draft Camp, but may be on the “physical only” list once it is released next week. From then on out McGee will hit the workout trail, and Barnes and Co. feel “The Big Secret” will be a secret no more.
 
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jlove

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From TheDraftReview.com
Strengths: Has the NBA size and, most importantly, the athleticism for the power forward position … Runs the floor exceptionally well for a player his size … Has the body type to add necessary weight without sacrificing any athleticism … Shooting touch from mid-range is decent 15 feet from the basket … Solid finisher in transition or around the basket where his length and leaping ability allow for impressive finishes … Defensively, he shows great promise blocking shots with his long arms, explosiveness and mobility … Has shown great improvement passing the ball, which was below average in the beginning of the season … Has shown some developing post moves with a decent looking jump hook and turnaround jumper … Ball handling ability enables him to get the ball on the perimeter and gain separation to drive to the basket … Uses his length and athleticism to snare a good portion of rebounds out of position … Has the physical traits that should prepare him for good development in the post with soft hands to catch passes and smooth foot work that enables McGee to maintain balance … Moves well laterally, which allows him to provide great help defense … May have the most upside in the entire draft, which speaks of how far he is from his ceiling …
Weaknesses: Physically, McGee must continue to add more upper body strength and weight to his body … Because of this he seems to struggle to establish position when attempting to post-up … Doesn’t do a good job of getting his body wide - guards will often have to lob difficult passes over the defense to get him the ball … Must focus on boxing out when rebounding in his area, as he can get outworked by players when he has the physical advantage … This often makes him a liability to recover offensive rebounds, which is regarded by most as the game's most important aspect for a big man … Offensively, his back to the basket moves are raw and remain a work in progress … When blocking shots McGee’s timing needs work as he tends to bite on fakes with some regularity … Will be a project for a team drafting him as he is clearly still learning the game’s nuances … Defensively, he doesn’t do a good job denying post position and simply allows his man to gain space without any disruption … Poor free throw shooter that lacks a routine and has a habit of looking at the ball during his release instead of focusing on the rim … McGee doesn’t know his limits as a player, which can be frustrating when he attempts shots that are beyond his comfort level … Seems to have problems with his confidence and currently lacks the mental toughness to fight through when things aren’t going his way ... Can get man-handled when he fails to match the physicality of power post players … Lacks the body strength to absorb contact and finish in traffic …
 

jandaman

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McGee will be gone by the 13th pick, the draft has many question marks, so teams will opt for the "risky" pick.

Green and McGee has a good chance to be gone when the Suns pick... if thats the buzz or case come draft day, Suns will probably need a trade up,.... Nets, Bucks....
 

Mainstreet

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I just had a positive thought if it hasn't already been mentioned. The Suns chose Steve Nash in the 1996 NBA draft with the 15th pick. Maybe fifteen will be the Suns lucky number. I believe the Suns termed him as a "safe" pick. The Suns need more safe picks like that.
 

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I'm a Stanford fan, so I've watched Brook Lopez up close and personal all year. Here's my feeling: If Brook Lopez is going #3 in this draft, it's a BAD draft. Someone may shine down low, but I doubt anyone with all-star ability is going to get plucked anywhere below #1 and #2. If history serves, one, or maybe two guys will break through. At best, we'll get a role player. At worst, a bust.
 

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What about Joe Alexander if he falls to 15 ?
He is strong, athletic, good at low post and can hit a three. Really liked him in a few games I saw him this season. He can even take it to the bucket at times
 

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McGee is not a good on ball post defender right now because of his lack of UPPER body strength. He is a great help defender and has great speed, rebounding, and shot blocking ability. I can see him used as a 3-4-5 in the pros. He has range on his shot, although a bit slow with his set shot (ala Camby, but a little quicker). I think he's a project to a point, but if the Suns bring in Silas as the Big Mans coach, he could work wonders with McGee and Amare for the future. Remember that Amare had close to the same problems in the post that McGee has right now. Put McGee in the weight room to work his upper body and he'll become a monster alongside Amare. Like I've said (don't remember if it was on this forum or not), but McGee reminds me of a combo of Amare/Camby/Rasheed Wallace/Duncan. Comparable to Amare for his speed, athleticism, and his raw determination and wanting to posterize someone (when Amare first came in). Reminds me of Camby because of his ability on the weakside defender, his rebounding, and his semi-slow set shot. Reminds me of Rasheed Wallace because of his shooting range (at a high % too), and his turn around jump shot. Reminds me of Duncan because of his ability to use the glass VERY well on his shots, and his knack for using both hands on baby hook shots. He's very fundamentally sound with his footwork and his shooting percentage. He has his down points too, don't get me wrong. He is not a good on ball defender due to his lack of upper body strength, but has great lower body strength (ala Yao Ming when he first came to the NBA). He is pretty raw and plays with passion (ala Amare) but can get frustrated easy too (ala Barbosa). I feel he would be great with Amare and Shaq to help guide him (especially if the Suns bring in Silas to help tutor).


From the vid, he just reminds me of Camby, far cry from Amare's speed and power. Camby is not a very good post defender either. So, if McGee could turn out to be like Camby with a better shot at #15, it'd be a huge steal.
 

cly2tw

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I'm a Stanford fan, so I've watched Brook Lopez up close and personal all year. Here's my feeling: If Brook Lopez is going #3 in this draft, it's a BAD draft. Someone may shine down low, but I doubt anyone with all-star ability is going to get plucked anywhere below #1 and #2. If history serves, one, or maybe two guys will break through. At best, we'll get a role player. At worst, a bust.


Would Mem give us Lowry for the pick? ;)
 

mathbzh

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Not only is he French, his biggest criticism is that he is passive and seems to underperform too often.

**** that noise.

Hi, I am French and have followed Batum progress during the last 3 seasons.

The kid is really talented and is born to play basketball. But to be honest I don't really know how to rank him in a mock draft (I don't follow the NCAA except during the madness so I don't really know how good US prospects really are). I believe Batum is a future All-Star but could be wrong.

I think the criticism about him being passive are not very fair.

First the Euroleague, I think he was not ready to be a team leader at this level. Moreover Le Mans was too weak to really compete. For that reason Batum was inconsistent in Euroleague (don't forgot it is the highest level of competition outside the NBA). But on some occasion he also displayed all his potential and that he can be sometime unstopable (like this 24 pts (100%) /4 rbds/4ast/2blks/1stl game against Maccabi. Something Diaw would NEVER have done when he was playing for Pau.

Then the Pro A, unfortunately for Batum the mock draft sites don't follow this league. Batum plays for Le Mans, they finished the regular season has the top team with 23 wins and 7 loss.
With his 12 pts (52%)/4rbds/4 ast (in 29 min) Batum is without discussion the best player of the team... The best player in the best team.
He leads Le Mans in ppg and apg and he is 3rd in rpg.

There is one interesting fact:
Against teams ranked #2 to #5, Batum averaged 15.5 ppg/6.3 rpg/4.1 apg/ 1.1 bpg /1.3 spg. He his present when his team needs him (and takes his offensive responsibilities). And he does that being one of their defensive leader.

Yesterday, for his first playoff game of the season (a blowout win over Cholet 82-62) he filled the statsheet with 11 pts / 7 rbds / 9 ast /2 stl in just 24 minutes (best rating of the game).

About his aggressiveness:
How many here complains about Diaw going for a soft layup instead of a powerfull dunk? Given the occasion Batum always goes for the Dunk. He have posterized a bunch of player this season (in Euroleague and Pro A).
About the classic Diaw-Batum comparison, Diaw was a 7/4/4 player before he leaved the french league and was 21 yo. Batum is only 19 and is a 12/4/4 player, he is not as unselfish as Diaw.

Honestly I don't know what more you can expect from a 19 yo player. He struggled early this season and in some euroleague games.
He probably needed time to adjust to his new leader status (a 19 yo leader surrounded with veterans).

I don"t really understand when it is pointed out that he is not ready for the NBA. It is probably true, but how many of the other players in this draft are ready? How many will really be able to contribute to a team success?
 
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mathbzh

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Just one more word, it is really funny how scouts become suddenly crazy after one good game in the Nike Hoop Summit, against weak competition (at least defensively) and consider it is a failure if this player can't put the same numbers in real games at the Pro level.
 

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Just one more word, it is really funny how scouts become suddenly crazy after one good game in the Nike Hoop Summit, against weak competition (at least defensively) and consider it is a failure if this player can't put the same numbers in real games at the Pro level.


Is Batum a good one-on-one scorer? Does he have moves like Manu, Giricek, Delfino, etc?
 

mathbzh

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There is a highlight video for this playoff game here:
http://www.msb.fr/videos/3765.wmv
He is player #5 in blue/violet

When his jumpshot is on Batum is a great one-on-one scorer. At the pro A level he can become completely unstoppable.
Actually, at this level he can make separation with his defender at will. He is just too fast and/or too long for all the defenders when you add his ballhandling (still improvable) and court vision it is just too much for most defender here.
Batum is very good in transition.
His moves are not as refined as those from these players but he has a nice arsenal and many ways to score. On some occasion he even displays some nice post moves.
 

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About Batum playing better in big games:

There are 16 teams in Pro A (30 games regular season)

Batum had 6 games with individual rating under 10 (5W-1L).
Against teams that are #6 (*2), #9, #11, #13 and number #15)

He also had 6 games with rating over 20 (6W-0L)
Against the #9, #2, #12, #5, #4 and #3
 

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Some reviews suggest Batum is better on defense than on offense right now. Is this true?
 

mathbzh

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I would say he has the same potential on both ends but he is maybe more consistent on the defensive end.

As I already said he has improve his consistency a lot through the season.
When he is in attack mode and have is jumpshot on, he can already be completely unstoppable on the French league level. When it happens he really looks like a future superstar ( Like during this 24 pts (10/10 FG, 3/3 3pt) 4 ast against the Maccabi Tel Aviv in Euroleague). With an improved ballhandling and a better shooting consistency he could become lethal.

I don't know how it will translate in the NBA but I feel is game is really NBA friendly.
I don't think he will be a scoring machine but he could turn into a great third option.


It is really difficult to juge international prospects. IMO Batum's game will translate better in the NBA than Gallinari's game (I feel Gallinari is not athletic enough).

When Batum faced the top US prospects in the Nike Hoop Summit or the U19 WCF he was not overmatched. And I think he is as talented as anyone in the draft but Beasley and Rose.
Of course I am French... and a bit biased ;)
 
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YouJustGotSUNSD

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Some scouts are saying he is a good investment for teams later in the draft because he can be kept overseas and off the luxury tax until he improves.
 

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I hope the Suns dont get Hibbert. I'll cry.
 

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Suns shud trade up and try to get Bayless
 

Mainstreet

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Suns shud trade up and try to get Bayless

I have a feeling USC freshman OJ Mayo, when all is said and done, may be one of the best players (or the best player) in the draft but I'm not opposed to Bayless either. The Suns really need a future PG. However, while casually watching college video clips from last season, Mayo really stood out and impressed me as being a man among boys. IF Mayo can play PG, and some suggest he can, he could really help the Suns. I feel in the NBA he will grow into the ability to dominate games. He seems like the real deal. I do know there might be some character questions about him, but I'm just talking about talent.
 
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