Monday Morning Thoughts: Game 9

Duckjake

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I am seeing consistent pressure right in his face, and he cant step up, resulting in those passes that take forever to get there

the int to Housler was on a pass like that, ditto the TD pass to Roberts

That's what I have seen so far in watching some of the first quarter. If CP has room in the middle its a solid throw. Pressure its not.

Most of our pockets are narrow as the outside rushers aren't getting ridden back around the QB like parentheses. For whatever reason they are able to come straight at Palmer even while being blocked. I looked at that after I noticed a big difference the width of Texans pockets compared to ours. More room to maneuver most of the time.
 

Buckybird

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The offensive line is the reason why we won this football game. Do you realize how difficult it is to block J.J. Watt and company? The line started imposing its will on the Texan's d-line in the 3rd and 4th quarters. To keep calling the o-line awful is flat-out wrong. They are busting their butts---and they have been getting the job done.
Yep!

This Oline is playing much better in both aspects of their game since the trade of Levi Brown! Coencidence? I think not!!! :D;):D
 

BullheadCardFan

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Levi Brown was and is HORRIBLE. Regardless of what some ratings say.

Sowell just plays harder and with more passion and that alone has improved our LT play.
Totally agree. And not as many false start penalties to boot. I was sick of watching Levi struggle every game.
 

Chopper0080

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How do you know this ?

Brought to you by the "Bradley Sowell for right guard in 2014" committee.

In his scouting reports Watford has been praised for the strength he plays with which should help our interior if he can master the other aspects of the game and crack into the starting lineup. He is a very raw player and was drafted for his strength and athleticism.
 

PJ1

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In his scouting reports Watford has been praised for the strength he plays with which should help our interior if he can master the other aspects of the game and crack into the starting lineup. He is a very raw player and was drafted for his strength and athleticism.

BA also praised his strength in preseason. Hopefully he makes it because a tandem of him and Cooper at guard could be around a long time.
 

football karma

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That's what I have seen so far in watching some of the first quarter. If CP has room in the middle its a solid throw. Pressure its not.

Most of our pockets are narrow as the outside rushers aren't getting ridden back around the QB like parentheses. For whatever reason they are able to come straight at Palmer even while being blocked. I looked at that after I noticed a big difference the width of Texans pockets compared to ours. More room to maneuver most of the time.

I think the approach is out on Palmer: squeeze him, pressure in his face so he can't step up, and wait for the int. I don't think edge rushers are trying to go too wide--

I also think Palmer is still a half second late on many throws -- a quicker read means more room to step into throws.

All that being said -- while the protection is better than last year, it's still not great.
 

Buckybird

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In his scouting reports Watford has been praised for the strength he plays with which should help our interior if he can master the other aspects of the game and crack into the starting lineup. He is a very raw player and was drafted for his strength and athleticism.

Yep!

I really wish he was playing some on game days, he's gonna be a player on that Oline! Damn we agree on something...been awhile! :p
 

RugbyMuffin

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I think you're right.

So OK. What do we do about it? If CP can't step up on those throws, should he throw them away? Should he hang onto the ball and take the sack? Or should he continue to throw balloon balls and accept the 33% possibility of a completion, 33% risk of an interception or 33% chance he'll throw an incompletion and/or possibly get his WR injured. Or should he dump off more to his RB's or TE's in the flat?

You do the best you can under the circumstances, and in the offseason you improve the talent on the interior line.
 

RugbyMuffin

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He read it in the same article that said Bradley Sowell can play guard. :D

:notworthy:

Now that is debating ladies and gentlemen. Well done sir, well done.

I got nothing to say to that.
 

RugbyMuffin

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In his scouting reports Watford has been praised for the strength he plays with which should help our interior if he can master the other aspects of the game and crack into the starting lineup. He is a very raw player and was drafted for his strength and athleticism.

Fair enough.

I will be happy with any improvement on the interior line.

.........just a fan of Bradley Sowell and the way he plays the game. I want to see him on the field in any position but LT to be honest.

Dare I say he is better than Nate Potter ? Yep.
 

Cardiac

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How about So Well to LG, Watford at RG and Cooper to OC.

Fair enough.

I will be happy with any improvement on the interior line.

.........just a fan of Bradley Sowell and the way he plays the game. I want to see him on the field in any position but LT to be honest.

Dare I say he is better than Nate Potter ? Yep.

Didn't like this suggestion?
 

JeffGollin

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In his scouting reports Watford has been praised for the strength he plays with which should help our interior if he can master the other aspects of the game and crack into the starting lineup. He is a very raw player and was drafted for his strength and athleticism.
Raises the questions: "How long can we wait for Watford to develop? What time-line have the coaches set for his development? How's he doing? Are the scouting reports being cited for Watford recent or are they a half-year old?

Right now, all I know is that he looked good coming out of the draft, and BA said nice things toward the end of preseason. If you look at other young prospects said to have potential, you also see validation of this in the form of more playing time (& production) on the field (i.e. Ellington, J Brown, Mathieu, Jefferson and even Taylor and T Williams).

Despite a need to upgrade our OL, we don't see Watford being brought along at quite the same pace - which raises questions in my mind about whether the coaches feel he's as good as many of us seem to think he is
 
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bankybruce

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Raises the questions: "How long can we wait for Watford to develop? What time-line have the coaches set for his development? How's he doing? Are the scouting reports being cited for Watford recent or are they a half-year old?

The last I heard was he was coming slow in regaurds to the speed of the game, but everything else is there. It makes sense with him coming from a smaller school. For a guy like him, this is where NFL Europe was great.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Didn't like this suggestion?

I love it.

But, from what I heard, and this is PURE RUMOR, Cooper struggled playing center this summer in camp.

If Cooper could pull off being a OC, hell yeah I like how that line looks.
 

CFLredzoned

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I love it.

But, from what I heard, and this is PURE RUMOR, Cooper struggled playing center this summer in camp.

If Cooper could pull off being a OC, hell yeah I like how that line looks.

Do centers ever pull? It seems like it would be taking away the thing he does best.
 

Cardiac

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Do centers ever pull? It seems like it would be taking away the thing he does best.

Good question.

I believe that pulling and getting to the 2nd level are very similar in regards to the athleticism it takes. Instead of Coop pulling and running behind the line he does it on the D side of the ball.

I do have hesitations to having a 7th overall pick as a OC but I also think the OC position is undervalued.

I also believe that Sendlein is better than many fans think but he definitely can be upgraded.
 

JC_AZ

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Good point... BA did everything possible to help stem the o-line leakage... He's not an engineer, but he's pretty smart nonetheless...
Now, if he can get smart about Mendy, he'd be quite a coach for sure! ;)

Just FYI - Howard Mudd is in town for the winter and is going to be helping with O-Line on occasion, starting this week... might be helpful. His best friend is Tom Moore and is good friends with BA...
 

CFLredzoned

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Just FYI - Howard Mudd is in town for the winter and is going to be helping with O-Line on occasion, starting this week... might be helpful. His best friend is Tom Moore and is good friends with BA...

Just googled the guy out of curiosity. It looks like there were mixed feelings when he retired from Phily, pretty much covering every corner of the spectrum: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/30/howard-mudd-plans-to-retire-again/

From: "The way this line has been a coached he has already retired."
To: "To those of you that think Mudd can’t coach an O-line, please go watch some tape."

This comment might be kind of telling:
"Mudd and Washburn are both proven coaches. They were great hires. For that matter, Andy Reid himself is a proven coach, despite not having a ring to show for his efforts.
The problem in Philly isn’t with those guys. It’s with the GM, Howie Roseman, whose approach to assembling a team is roughly equivalent to putting a fantasy football team together.
Do you think it’s a coincidence that three coaches with as many wins between them as Reid, Mudd, and Washburn couldn’t win games in 2011 and 2012? Of course it isn’t. By then, the team’s roster had Howie’s fingerprints all over it.
And the real crime in all of this is the when Jeffrey fires Andy, he won’t show Howie the door, too, even though he probably should."

Could also help explain why Bowle's track record in Phily didn't spell disaster for the Cards D.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Just googled the guy out of curiosity. It looks like there were mixed feelings when he retired from Phily, pretty much covering every corner of the spectrum: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/30/howard-mudd-plans-to-retire-again/

From: "The way this line has been a coached he has already retired."
To: "To those of you that think Mudd can’t coach an O-line, please go watch some tape."

This comment might be kind of telling:
"Mudd and Washburn are both proven coaches. They were great hires. For that matter, Andy Reid himself is a proven coach, despite not having a ring to show for his efforts.
The problem in Philly isn’t with those guys. It’s with the GM, Howie Roseman, whose approach to assembling a team is roughly equivalent to putting a fantasy football team together.
Do you think it’s a coincidence that three coaches with as many wins between them as Reid, Mudd, and Washburn couldn’t win games in 2011 and 2012? Of course it isn’t. By then, the team’s roster had Howie’s fingerprints all over it.
And the real crime in all of this is the when Jeffrey fires Andy, he won’t show Howie the door, too, even though he probably should."

Could also help explain why Bowle's track record in Phily didn't spell disaster for the Cards D.

I agree.

Coaching is very much overrated. Talent is what is needed to win games in the NFL.

The dream team was a bunch of names without talent to back it up.
 

JC_AZ

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Just googled the guy out of curiosity. It looks like there were mixed feelings when he retired from Phily, pretty much covering every corner of the spectrum: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/30/howard-mudd-plans-to-retire-again/

From: "The way this line has been a coached he has already retired."
To: "To those of you that think Mudd can’t coach an O-line, please go watch some tape."

This comment might be kind of telling:
"Mudd and Washburn are both proven coaches. They were great hires. For that matter, Andy Reid himself is a proven coach, despite not having a ring to show for his efforts.
The problem in Philly isn’t with those guys. It’s with the GM, Howie Roseman, whose approach to assembling a team is roughly equivalent to putting a fantasy football team together.
Do you think it’s a coincidence that three coaches with as many wins between them as Reid, Mudd, and Washburn couldn’t win games in 2011 and 2012? Of course it isn’t. By then, the team’s roster had Howie’s fingerprints all over it.
And the real crime in all of this is the when Jeffrey fires Andy, he won’t show Howie the door, too, even though he probably should."

Could also help explain why Bowle's track record in Phily didn't spell disaster for the Cards D.

Understanding that he came into Philly initially after the season was started, but his record with the Colts speaks for itself and Peyton Manning and his O-Line loved him there...

From the Pat's website...

"No Howard Mudd = A Bad Peyton Manning
Well, it would seem that the last few weeks have proven what many coaches, players and fans outside of Indy have believed for a very long time: Howard Mudd made Peyton Manning an elite QB.

While Colts fans will point to the list of key players out with injuries as the cause for Mannings struggles this season, the rest of the NFL world can't help but notice that Howard "The-Best-In-The-Business-At-Stealing-Signals" Mudd is no longer roaming the sidelines and feeding info to Manning.

The media created this mystique about Manning and his uncanny ability to quickly recognize defenses and adjust the play at the line of scrimmage. All those years of watching Harrison, Clark, Wayne, James, Addai, etc. running free into wide open areas were just a product of Manning being told what defense was coming.

Now, in his first year without Mudd, Manning is looking more and more like an average QB and the last few games have dropped him into Favre territory. The INTs are coming at an alarming rate and he's cornering the market on "Pick-6's".

Injuries don't make the QB throw the ball to the wrong team. Not knowing the defensive coverage ahead of time will do that.
 

john h

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1. It's always great to win when the ball wasn't bouncing your way (save the brilliant first series sack/strip by John Abraham and TD scoop by Matt Shaughnessy)---the two missed interceptions by Dansby (the second which caromed ahead to DeAndre Hawkins for a first down---weird), the regrettable interception thrown up for grabs on a 2nd and 5 in a tie game, the regrettable strip fumble by Carson Palmer where once again he refused to step up to avoid outside pressure, and held on to the ball too long---the inexcusable and totally lame fumble by Mendenhall whose primary job in that situation is ball security---the incredible TD by Andre Johnson that Patrick Peterson had in his hands---Heck---even the refs weren't helping much---the flag on the PI on Roberts down near the end zone came flying in from the side judge just before the ball arrives and the refs called it holding before the pass (5 yards instead of 25)---

2. But---some unsung players stepped up very well in some very key situations: (a) Zastudil---what an amazing punter he is; (b) Bethel---what an amazing kick blocker he is, pure textbook; (c) Housler---what a nifty slip screen TD he had and amazing catch in double coverage; (d) Powers---best game as a Cardinal, capped off by perfectly breaking up the last pass to Hawkins.

3. Most of all---the game was won up front on both sides of the ball, especially in that second half. The defensive line led by Abraham, Campbell, Dockett, Williams, Shaughnessy, Rucker, Bernard, Ta'amu was hammering the Texans' line and getting to ball in a flash. The offensive line took over the game in the 4th quarter. It was a rush to see them play so hard and tough versus a very talented defensive line. Clearly, this is the most committed the Cardinals have been to the running game and being physical up front that we've seen in years. The only thing i don't get, is why on first and goal from the five yard line, you run power for 2 yards down to the 3 yard line and then go right into a shotgun and abandon the run the next play...for two errant passes under duress....the second of which Roberts' arm was being being held by the CB...a call that Roberts doesn't seem to get in key conversion situations. The goal-line RB should be Ellington (because he can bounce and beat people to the end zone via quickness) and Taylor (because he's the toughest inside RB on the roster). Did you see Mendenhall earlier in the game on 3rd and 1---both Paul Fanaika and Eric Winston got a good push on their men, all Mendenhall had to do was hammer forward, instead he danced laterally and was dropped for a 1 yard loss. Mendenhall finally hit the hole hard a couple of times later (guess he was motivated to do so by Ellington's runs)---but he doesn't finish off runs---in fact, now he's just turning his back instead of lowering his shoulder.

4. The Andre Cat is significant---because it shows that an old dog is learning new tricks...and it signifies an important change in how BA uses his personnel in order to maximize its strengths---and to give the team a competitive edge. The only problem is that clearly Peterson's lateral option was being defended aggressively by that back right side---BA should have seen that and never should have called that 3rd play because it wasn't even close to being there. What would be a more dynamic option is to have Ryan Williams in the backfield (off-set or in a needle) next to Ellington. Imagine having Ellington, Peterson and Williams all on the field at the same time---with some passing options included.

5. What may be in the works---if BA is showing such flexibility---is the prospect of drafting QB Tajh Boyd, Ellington's and Brown's teammate at Clemson. Boyd is having a good season, but not a stellar one---and in light of the plethora of QB options in this year's upcoming draft, Boyd might be on the board when the Cardinals pick. Boyd's mobility and impressive arm strength could be too attractive to pass up. Steve Keim went personally to see Boyd this year and it is quite possible that Boyd is being considered and discussed.

6. Patrick Peterson is playing like an All Pro CB because he has started to master his technique. He's no longer a flag waiting to happen because he now trusts in his ability to locate and adjust to the ball. The job he did on Andre Johnson yesterday was stellar. As for his punt returns---he remains very tentative and cautious. I think it would be wise for BA to save Peterson for when the team needs a big return most or for when it simply needs a fair catch. Javier Arenas is itching to make his mark on returns and Honey Badger would be a nice option a couple of times a game. Plus, one has to wonder what Ellington could do in that role as a spot return man.

7. Honey Badger is the best tackler on the team.

8. Carson Palmer played very very hard yesterday. On the rare occasions when he does step up---like the time he threw over the middle to Roberts, for a nifty 14 yard completion---he is dang good. The back foot habit is troubling. But, regardless, Palmer stood in there, took his licks and played hard.

9. Larry Fitzgerald threw some great blocks out there again. Sadly, he got eaten up by CB Johnathan Joseph, who had no fear of Fitz beating him deep. This was epitomized by the play where Fitz got flagged for PI for pushing off, because Joseph knew he didn't have to keep any cushion on Fitz. Funny too that Fitz didn't even act like it was he who got interfered with, because Joseph came to meet him 12 yards down the field where that contact is a penalty. Did you notice that on third downs now, the coaches have Fitz running 2 yard drag routes? Why? Especially on 3rd and 7's? Did you notice too that during a timeout on 3rd and goal from the 3, Fitz was over lobbying to BA and BA had to put his hand up to say not now. The NBC crew also pointed out that BA was emphatic in telling them that the QB has to stop trying to force the ball in to Fitz. The reality is, BA isn't getting from Fitz what he got from Reggie Wayne last year when BA started moving Wayne around for the first time in his career.

10. Daryn Colledge deserves serious props. As poor as he was last year---this year he is bringing it. He's still somewhat inconsistent, but his effort and his toughness have been on full display the past few games. Credit Harold Goodwin too. His boys are getting after it up front.

Mitch if Palmer gets injured who will we send in? I hear nothing about our backup and how good or bad are they? Are they good enough to be our backups next year? There are a lot of middle of the road QB s coming out this year who could turn into good QB s. I hope we do take one. Perhaps in the first round if he looks really good to our scouts. Wilson and Keppernick sort of came out of nowhere. I sort of like our new head coach just watching him on the sideline. Most of his calls seem on the mark and he keeps his cool. Looks like a players coach. His experience speaks a lot. The 49ers are not playing up to par which is a help to us. Keppernich is still a force but not the force he was last year. The Seahawks with that monster RB are the team to beat in our division. Wilson is still Wilson.
 

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