Monday's Thought: Calling Out BA and Palmer

[TRW]

As bad as Palmer has been...

Do you really want a QB:

Who is 29 years old
In his 7th year
63.1 QB career rating
12 games played in for his ENTIRE career
3-9 record for those games
55.6% completion
5 TDs
9 Interceptions
Hasn't sniffed the field in the regular season since 2010?

Why in the heck at 3-3 after 6 games would a person even THINK that Drew Stanton could step in and do better? I know that the backup QB is always the darling of some when a team is struggling but Drew Freakin' Stanton? Really?

I certainly didn't see anything to be excited about in his preseason appearances either. Talk about throwing high, too hard and with no touch, he's the man if you want that. No thanks.

Good right up Mitch but a QB change or "competition" at this stage would be insane IMO.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Do you really want a QB:

Who is 29 years old
In his 7th year
63.1 QB career rating
12 games played in for his ENTIRE career
3-9 record for those games
55.6% completion
5 TDs
9 Interceptions
Hasn't sniffed the field in the regular season since 2010?

Why in the heck at 3-3 after 6 games would a person even THINK that Drew Stanton could step in and do better? I know that the backup QB is always the darling of some when a team is struggling but Drew Freakin' Stanton? Really?

I certainly didn't see anything to be excited about in his preseason appearances either. Talk about throwing high, too hard and with no touch, he's the man if you want that. No thanks.

Good right up Mitch but a QB change or "competition" at this stage would be insane IMO.

I don't know...I don't think Stanton is the answer, but we know what Palmer can do at this point, and he's been awful. Maybe Stanton could be slightly less awful?

 

[Duckjake]

I don't know...I don't think Stanton is the answer, but we know what Palmer can do at this point, and he's been awful. Maybe Stanton could be slightly less awful?

We're going to be ok. The system works. After starting the game 2-6 for 5 yards and 2 interceptions Palmer was 23-35-292 yards and 2 TDs.

 

[NotMattLeinart]

We're going to be ok. The system works. After starting the game 2-6 for 5 yards and 2 interceptions Palmer was 23-35-292 yards and 2 TDs.

Yeah I agree. Good showing on behalf of palmer if you don't consider that their pass Rush I basically second stringers.

 

[Duckjake]

Yeah I agree. Good showing on behalf of palmer if you don't consider that their pass Rush I basically second stringers.

Well that is what many are pointing out as a negative with Palmer. He wasn't under any pressure when he threw the two interceptions. On one there wasn't a 49er within 5 yards of him.

 

[football karma]

If you saw the interview with Palmer I think the 3 WR's is him as much as it is Arians. He was talking about the new WR and said the reason they worked him in is they need a speed WR to play Arians' offense and this could be the guy. He then made an interesting comment because while it may in fact be true, it sure sounded like an excuse. He said you need a speed guy when a team is "sitting on routes. Sitting there on sticks on 3rd downs and playing under." He was very close to saying my interceptions are because we're not throwing downfield but people are playing up and taking those away.

I get the impression Palmer is saying he wants to stretch the field more but you sure don't see that in his play, he's got such nervous feet now, the idea that he wants us to run more downfield plays I'm not sure I buy, he's not stepping up on the shorter balls would he really do it on the deeper routes?

it was interesting that after Golden caught that long one -- suddenly the offense looked competent

I think you can take shots -- but I like the shots where its long down one sideline -- it can be jump ballish, they dont get intercepted all that often and it seems get its fair share of pass interference calls.

SF thrives on putting both safeties in zone and letting them play downhill to underneath throws. The minute the offense put the fear of going over the top, things started to open up.

 

[Reddog]

The one thing that continues to make me crazy is a 3rd down and less than 1 and we throw a pass and a bad one at that. Man up and grind meat! I can't stand Harbaugh but he loved dancing on the 9ers ability to run the ball in his presser.

 

[NotMattLeinart]

Well that is what many are pointing out as a negative with Palmer. He wasn't under any pressure when he threw the two interceptions. On one there wasn't a 49er within 5 yards of him.

sometimes it is hard to defend him although i still think he's the QB that can lead us to victory. everyone deserves a part of the blame in this loss.

 

[splitsecond]

If only we could find a way to rip Nick Foles away from Chip Kelly.... My god would he be great with Arians and Moore

 

[az240zz]

I don't care for the play call either but to me the real issue there is you don't go for two yet. You don't go for 2 until you have to, that was too early. Then to compound it with such a silly playcall.

And as you said in a short field like that the play is far less likely to work.

Arians reminds me of my dad sometimes and fishing. He hates just catching fish where everyone else does, so I'll set us up in a good spot and then he'll put the trolling motor down and move us often into a crappy looking area. He doesn't just want to catch fish, he wants to catch them in places nobody else would try, unfortunately it usually backfires.

I'd be happy just catching fish!!!!!!!

 

[cardncubfan]

2 picks in a row by forcing the ball to Fitz, and then comes back, forces it again, for a huge TD.

Looks horrible again, comes back with a big play.

IIRC, 110 QB rating after the 2 picks.

Is Palmer a good NFL QB? Barely, he is average at best.

Is he competing ? You bet your arse he is. Competitors fight, and after 2 picks I have seen A LOT of QB just curl up in a ball and die.

Thus, the flack Palmer is getting for his play is justified, but calling out his will to compete, nope, that is just not fair. I think he has shown his will to compete.

..........and unfortunately his talent level.

This. He was going directly to Tom Moore after the picks to look at pictures of the play to see what exactly went wrong so he could correct it. The bolded part is correct as well. I think it was 110.8 after he threw the 2nd pick. Az Cards NFL site said the 1 pick was on the receiver as he was supposed to run a curl route & Palmer threw to the spot he was supposed to be & the other hewas just trying to force the ball to Fitz.

 

[JeffGollin]

Great points, Jeff. I think this exactly what the coaches are grappling with. I doubt we will see many changes during the short week. But, if it were me I would be splitting reps in practice asap between Palmer and Stanton---and I would be thinking of going less 2 TEs and more 3 WRs (which is already in place).

Another observation for contemplation and future use -

Harbaugh seemed to have his offense prepped for playing in two distinct modes: (1) "School-Yard" (lots of wide splits and space for Kaepernick and his team-mates to operate in and leverage their individual athletic talents (i.e. "It's our athletes matched up one on one with your athletes) and (2) "Smash-mouth" (heavy dosage of Gore, Hunter and Miller between the tackles designed to wear down your defense and set things up for deep throws to V Davis or a wideout).

As soon as we'd adjust defensively to one mode, Harbaugh would shift to the other. (That 18-play 9:31 fourth quarter drive - after we had stopped their run game the first time and then adjusted pretty well to Kaepernick's freelancing - was a thing of (ughhh!) beauty - the smashmouth strategy worked better the second time. It had our guys going backward on roller skates).

Interesting employment of strategy by the opposition. Any thoughts on how to match those strategies, Mitch?

 

[Mitch]

Another observation for contemplation and future use -

Harbaugh seemed to have his offense prepped for playing in two distinct modes: (1) "School-Yard" (lots of wide splits and space for Kaepernick and his team-mates to operate in and leverage their individual athletic talents (i.e. "It's our athletes matched up one on one with your athletes) and (2) "Smash-mouth" (heavy dosage of Gore, Hunter and Miller between the tackles designed to wear down your defense and set things up for deep throws to V Davis or a wideout).

As soon as we'd adjust defensively to one mode, Harbaugh would shift to the other. (That 18-play 9:31 fourt quarter drive had our guys going backward on roller skates.

Interesting employment of strategy by the opposition. Any thoughts on how to match those strategies, Mitch?

Jeff, I wrote to a friend of mine before the SF game that I would put Badger on Q and Patrick on Davis. Todd Bowles did some of that in the 2nd half and coincidentally the 49ers stopped looking for Davis and as you said went into Smashmouth mode. Patrick is the only DB on the roster who can make things more difficult for Davis.

I am glad you brought that up because Bowles did have a jumbo package ready with Williams and Ta'amo up front in tandem---but I didn't see much of that. The other consideration is---Bowles inserted Brinkley at ILB (perhaps a little too late, however)---and Brinkley did meet and greet Gore and Hunter, better than Dansby or Washington (special all-purpose ILBers, but not meet and greet ILBers versus Smashmouth). By then they were gassed and you could tell it---a lot of attempts to arm tackle, and as we know, that won't get it done versus Gore. Maybe Hunter. But not Gore.

 

[MrYeahBut]

Do you really want a QB:

Who is 29 years old
In his 7th year
63.1 QB career rating
12 games played in for his ENTIRE career
3-9 record for those games
55.6% completion
5 TDs
9 Interceptions
Hasn't sniffed the field in the regular season since 2010?

Why in the heck at 3-3 after 6 games would a person even THINK that Drew Stanton could step in and do better? I know that the backup QB is always the darling of some when a team is struggling but Drew Freakin' Stanton? Really?

I certainly didn't see anything to be excited about in his preseason appearances either. Talk about throwing high, too hard and with no touch, he's the man if you want that. No thanks.

Good right up Mitch but a QB change or "competition" at this stage would be insane IMO.

I agree with this completely. I just don't see how you don't keep playing Palmer in spite of the sometimes disastrous results. Pretty much the whole board here was hating on Whiz for his QB carousel. I get that he was clutching at straws and had virtually nothing to work with, but I never really saw any benefit in it, especially when Lindley hit the field. Drew freaking Stanton is right.

I'm not seeing Ryan Williams hitting the field any time soon either. Something just isn't right with his pea brain or he'd be playing. I fail to see any real problems with our top 3 running backs, now add another unproven player into the mix? Most here think Ellington isn't getting enough reps and Mendenhall gets the tough yards, so who goes to the bench for Williams? Well.... maybe he can go in for Dude.

Nice rant though Mitch. Appreciate the effort.


.

 

[desertdawg]

Nice stuff Mitchy, I only got one thing to say about benching Palmer....

We are damned if we do and we are damned if we don't.

 

[splitsecond]

Another observation for contemplation and future use -

Harbaugh seemed to have his offense prepped for playing in two distinct modes: (1) "School-Yard" (lots of wide splits and space for Kaepernick and his team-mates to operate in and leverage their individual athletic talents (i.e. "It's our athletes matched up one on one with your athletes) and (2) "Smash-mouth" (heavy dosage of Gore, Hunter and Miller between the tackles designed to wear down your defense and set things up for deep throws to V Davis or a wideout).

As soon as we'd adjust defensively to one mode, Harbaugh would shift to the other. (That 18-play 9:31 fourth quarter drive - after we had stopped their run game the first time and then adjusted pretty well to Kaepernick's freelancing - was a thing of (ughhh!) beauty - the smashmouth strategy worked better the second time. It had our guys going backward on roller skates).

Interesting employment of strategy by the opposition. Any thoughts on how to match those strategies, Mitch?

Let's not Credit Meathead with that. That is ALL Greg Roman. He's a mad scientist. An old school mad scientist at that. He will be a head coach soon.

 

[Chopper0080]

2 picks in a row by forcing the ball to Fitz, and then comes back, forces it again, for a huge TD.

Looks horrible again, comes back with a big play.

IIRC, 110 QB rating after the 2 picks.

Is Palmer a good NFL QB? Barely, he is average at best.

Is he competing ? You bet your arse he is. Competitors fight, and after 2 picks I have seen A LOT of QB just curl up in a ball and die.

Thus, the flack Palmer is getting for his play is justified, but calling out his will to compete, nope, that is just not fair. I think he has shown his will to compete.

..........and unfortunately his talent level.

Agreed.

 

[Chopper0080]

Also, just say no to a QB switch in week 6. Week 13, maybe we can talk.

 

[nashman]

Palmer gets the season barring injury, and should its a whole new team that needs to gel and play together. We have been through the QB changing nonsense with WIZ and it sucked! If Palmer does well then fine if not we draft a young
QB he was not brought here to be the savior, everyone knew it was a stop gap move.

 

[Russ Smith]

Let's not Credit Meathead with that. That is ALL Greg Roman. He's a mad scientist. An old school mad scientist at that. He will be a head coach soon.

Roman had been in the NFL before mostly as a positional coach. When harbaugh hired him at Stanford he was teh offensive coordinator, for his old HIGHSCHOOL.

Not saying Roman isn't good, but the idea that he made Harbaugh is a bit hard to sell, especially since Harbaugh had been at Stanford 2 years before he hired roman, and the guy who succeeded Harbaugh at Stanford is considered a strong candidate to be an NFL head coach soon too.

They had a terrific staff, which is the mark of being a good head coach you hire a quality staff.

 

[gmabel830]

Also, just say no to a QB switch in week 6. Week 13, maybe we can talk.

Totally agree... you brought Palmer in to be the guy and had him working with the first team all offseason, training camp, and preseason. You don't give up on him after 6 games. I don't think this is even something that Keim/Arians are even considering -- Keim certainly didn't even seem to think it was a question when asked on Doug/Wolf this morning.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Totally agree... you brought Palmer in to be the guy and had him working with the first team all offseason, training camp, and preseason. You don't give up on him after 6 games. I don't think this is even something that Keim/Arians are even considering -- Keim certainly didn't even seem to think it was a question when asked on Doug/Wolf this morning.

they also didn't seem to think replacing Levi was a question after a couple weeks. bottom line...Palmer keeps playing like this and putting us in holes, it's gonna be tough to keep him in there, especially considering how poorly he played in his last stints as a starter with the Bengals and Raiders.

 

[ajcardfan]

let's try to look at the big picture Mitch. Every win .... pure brilliance. Every loss.... complete garbage. At least according to your post game threads.

The truth is somewhere in-between.

 

[mrbyte]

Heres the thing that bugs me about our O
we run on 1st gain say 4
the second play say we get 2 or 3
on 3rd and short we empty the backfield and go 5 wide it just telegraphs what we are going to do with ellington a defense has to honour the run but we constantly take away that consideration for them and put him out wide.

what happened to using play action or hell even running it ? I just dont get why we keep using 5 wide in short yardage

 

[Totally_Red]

Carson Palmer is STILL forcing the ball to Larry Fitzgerald even after saying he had to stop doing that. Even granted the second interception was on Jim Dray, he had a lot of inaccurate passes in that game and of course, the safety at a critical juncture. When Andre Roberts is wide open, which he was 2-3 times yesterday, thrown him the freaking ball!

That loss is squarely on the four turnovers. Cardinals should have beaten an injury-depleted Niners squad and didn't. That is an unmitigated disaster. You HAVE to win the winnable games and the Cardinals didn't.

I have limited blame for the coaching staff. My primary gripe is the defense SHOULD have been prepared for Kapernick's hard counts. He does it every home game. If they didn't prepare Moch and company for the hard counts and remind them pre-game, it's on them. If not, it's on the knuckleheads who jumped. Also didn't like seeing Alfonso Smith in the game at crunch time after how well Rashard Mendenhall and Andre Ellington had played. Also didn't agree with going for the two-point conversion so early on.

Still think primary blame rests on Palmer's poor performance overall and on four critical turnovers. You normally don't win NFL road games by commiting FOUR turnovers. The turnovers have to diminish or this team is 5-11 yet again. It's very frustrating to see 'Cardinals beating Cardinals'. Very frustrating! Stop the madness!