Monday's Thought: Calling Out BA and Palmer

[RugbyMuffin]

I do not see a true competitor in the guy. Do you?

2 picks in a row by forcing the ball to Fitz, and then comes back, forces it again, for a huge TD.

Looks horrible again, comes back with a big play.

IIRC, 110 QB rating after the 2 picks.

Is Palmer a good NFL QB? Barely, he is average at best.

Is he competing ? You bet your arse he is. Competitors fight, and after 2 picks I have seen A LOT of QB just curl up in a ball and die.

Thus, the flack Palmer is getting for his play is justified, but calling out his will to compete, nope, that is just not fair. I think he has shown his will to compete.

..........and unfortunately his talent level.

 

[Shane]

2 picks in a row by forcing the ball to Fitz, and then comes back, forces it again, for a huge TD.

Looks horrible again, comes back with a big play.

IIRC, 110 QB rating after the 2 picks.

Is Palmer a good NFL QB? Barely, he is average at best.

Is he competing ? You bet your arse he is. Competitors fight, and after 2 picks I have seen A LOT of QB just curl up in a ball and die.

Thus, the flack Palmer is getting for his play is justified, but calling out his will to compete, nope, that is just not fair. I think he has shown his will to compete.

..........and unfortunately his talent level.

accurate.

 

[Shane]

By the way very nice write up today Mitch!

 

[PDXChris]

It is and it isn't the calls getting into the QB late are going far too often and it's game 6. Palmer has been bad but delay of game penalties are very rarely just a guy forgetting the clock it's usually the play getting in late which is why it's on the coach to call TO there.

And that 2 point conversion I said in the game thread that's something you draw in the dirt in 6th grade flag football. It was too early to go for and if Smith doesn't fumble and we go down and score that 2 point conversion might have lost us the game.

He's getting too caught up in this mad scientist mantra IMO, I like coaches who take risks, but he's just making bad mistakes.

I see that another way. He was behind C with about 8 second left calling out something. I think Palmer tried to made an adjustment and jsut ran out of time. That happened again later early in the 3rd and BA did call TO. So, I think BA was trusting that Palmer would get the snap off at the last second, but Palmer was not quick enough on the adjustments. I do not think the play was late as they broke huddle with plenty of time. This coudl be Palmer will not having the offense down since it is taking way to long to make his adjustments and BA reconized that in the 3rd, which is why he called TO then.

 

[Shane]

I see that another way. He was behind C with about 8 second left calling out something. I think Palmer tried to made an adjustment and jsut ran out of time. That happened again later early in the 3rd and BA did call TO. So, I think BA was trusting that Palmer would get the snap off at the last second, but Palmer was not quick enough on the adjustments. I do not think the play was late as they broke huddle with plenty of time. This coudl be Palmer will not having the offense down since it is taking way to long to make his adjustments and BA reconized that in the 3rd, which is why he called TO then.

BA cannot let that happen at that point in the game and at that point of the field. Its not Peyton Manning back there. He just can't. Clearly Palmer wasn't aware and we could all tell from the TV. The HC MUST call that TO.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

By the way very nice write up today Mitch!

+1

 

[Russ Smith]

I see that another way. He was behind C with about 8 second left calling out something. I think Palmer tried to made an adjustment and jsut ran out of time. That happened again later early in the 3rd and BA did call TO. So, I think BA was trusting that Palmer would get the snap off at the last second, but Palmer was not quick enough on the adjustments. I do not think the play was late as they broke huddle with plenty of time. This coudl be Palmer will not having the offense down since it is taking way to long to make his adjustments and BA reconized that in the 3rd, which is why he called TO then.

Sure but at that point on the field if you're the coach you can't just trust he's goign to get it off, call the TO.

That penalty caused the safety, it was a huge play in the game and totally avoidable if Arians is watching the clock the way Harbaugh does.

 

[PDXChris]

Sure but at that point on the field if you're the coach you can't just trust he's goign to get it off, call the TO.

That penalty caused the safety, it was a huge play in the game and totally avoidable if Arians is watching the clock the way Harbaugh does.

I totally agree and think BA learned from it. I just don't think the play was late.

 

[JeffGollin]

Mitch - The theme that wove through your entire post was that we should make a lot of changes on offense.

I get that when your team gets stuck in the mud, one way to get unstuck is to try a lot of different new things.

Sounds like a plan, but does not come without some inherent risks (i.e. sometimes the new guys aren't as good or don't play as good as the old guys).

To play Devil's Advocate, I pose the following question: In some instances are we better off focusing on making our current guys in the lineup better than we'd be by merely changing personnel? And in which cases do you change players and in which cases do you coach-up an existing player?

All within the context of (1) being pro-active/aggressive, (2) retaining stability, (3) our opponent being better than most NFL teams (& our performance against them representing a "small sample size") and/or (4) our backups having even more weaknesses than our starters.

My overall take on this Cardinal team is that buckling up "big boy pants" is only part of the story. It must be accompanied by a heavy dose of Mental Alertness pills.

 

[Mulli]

OT: Did anyone miss Drew Brees throw an interception on a play where he 1) tried to signal timeout prior to the snap 2) took the snap after the playclock had expired...


Weird.

 

[40yearfan]

Well said, Russ.

I would just add that QB play makes a coach look like a genius or a dunce. I will bet you that BA is getting fed up with Palmer. Palmer is dragging the whole team down.

+1

 

[Shane]

All I can do is still shake my head at that play call trying to go for the two point conversion. Last place and last time for trickery. We owned the LOS and were getting easy 4 yards a pop. Shove it right up their throat. Ughhhh

 

[BigRedRage]

I think you just want to be positive about what your seeing. These are all the same mistakes we had been seeing with Whiz. QB's not getting the plays in on time. Delay penalties. Players confused on where to line up and where the play is going etc... Hasn't just been this game either. Far from it.

Its been happening less than it used to and this is a first year offense

 

[BigRedRage]

All I can do is still shake my head at that play call trying to go for the two point conversion. Last place and last time for trickery. We owned the LOS and were getting easy 4 yards a pop. Shove it right up their throat. Ughhhh

Or a normal PA toss by palmer, didnt like the trick play there either. Especially THAT trick play. That trick play is designed for huge yards, not small windows like that.

imo

 

[Russ Smith]

I totally agree and think BA learned from it. I just don't think the play was late.

Gotcha, I don't know if it was or not so you're probably right on that play.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch - The theme that wove through your entire post was that we should make a lot of changes on offense.

I get that when your team gets stuck in the mud, one way to get unstuck is to try a lot of different new things.

Sounds like a plan, but does not come without some inherent risks (i.e. sometimes the new guys aren't as good or don't play as good as the old guys).

To play Devil's Advocate, I pose the following question: In some instances are we better off focusing on making our current guys in the lineup better than we'd be by merely changing personnel? And in which cases do you change players and in which cases do you coach-up an existing player?

All within the context of (1) being pro-active/aggressive, (2) retaining stability, (3) our opponent being better than most NFL teams (& our performance against them representing a "small sample size") and/or (4) our backups having even more weaknesses than our starters.

My overall take on this Cardinal team is that buckling up "big boy pants" is only part of the story. It must be accompanied by a heavy dose of Mental Alertness pills.

Great points, Jeff. I think this exactly what the coaches are grappling with. I doubt we will see many changes during the short week. But, if it were me I would be splitting reps in practice asap between Palmer and Stanton---and I would be thinking of going less 2 TEs and more 3 WRs (which is already in place).

 

[Russ Smith]

Or a normal PA toss by palmer, didnt like the trick play there either. Especially THAT trick play. That trick play is designed for huge yards, not small windows like that.

imo

I don't care for the play call either but to me the real issue there is you don't go for two yet. You don't go for 2 until you have to, that was too early. Then to compound it with such a silly playcall.

And as you said in a short field like that the play is far less likely to work.

Arians reminds me of my dad sometimes and fishing. He hates just catching fish where everyone else does, so I'll set us up in a good spot and then he'll put the trolling motor down and move us often into a crappy looking area. He doesn't just want to catch fish, he wants to catch them in places nobody else would try, unfortunately it usually backfires.

 

[ajcardfan]

I don't care for the play call either but to me the real issue there is you don't go for two yet. You don't go for 2 until you have to, that was too early. Then to compound it with such a silly playcall.

And as you said in a short field like that the play is far less likely to work.

Arians reminds me of my dad sometimes and fishing. He hates just catching fish where everyone else does, so I'll set us up in a good spot and then he'll put the trolling motor down and move us often into a crappy looking area. He doesn't just want to catch fish, he wants to catch them in places nobody else would try, unfortunately it usually backfires.

Yeah, I hated the decision to go for two, but the play call was even worse. It was a "trick play" that we ran before! The 49ers knew PP could throw on that play and probably would. Hell, it was on FILM and the 49ers are not a dumb team!

 

[Buckybird]

Or a normal PA toss by palmer, didnt like the trick play there either. Especially THAT trick play. That trick play is designed for huge yards, not small windows like that.

imo

Made absolutely zero sense to get 2 yards. wtf
Maybe one of the stupidest calls I've ever seen by a HC in AZ & that's saying something.

But as BA said, Cardinals won't make Cardinals lose.

 

[Buckybird]

Yeah, I hated the decision to go for two, but the play call was even worse. It was a "trick play" that we ran before! The 49ers knew PP could throw on that play and probably would. Hell, it was on FILM and the 49ers are not a dumb team!

And as bigredrage pointed out, even more stupid given that play is designed to gets chunks of yards! I'm still not believing BA called that play from the 2 yd line.

 

[Duckjake]

Our QB throws two interceptions returned into the Red Zone and the opponent only gets 6 points. Then we come back with a huge TD play to Fitzgerald to take the lead. And we end up losing the game.

That is just traditional Cardinal football. Tried and True since 1920.

 

[Russ Smith]

Great points, Jeff. I think this exactly what the coaches are grappling with. I doubt we will see many changes during the short week. But, if it were me I would be splitting reps in practice asap between Palmer and Stanton---and I would be thinking of going less 2 TEs and more 3 WRs (which is already in place).

If you saw the interview with Palmer I think the 3 WR's is him as much as it is Arians. He was talking about the new WR and said the reason they worked him in is they need a speed WR to play Arians' offense and this could be the guy. He then made an interesting comment because while it may in fact be true, it sure sounded like an excuse. He said you need a speed guy when a team is "sitting on routes. Sitting there on sticks on 3rd downs and playing under." He was very close to saying my interceptions are because we're not throwing downfield but people are playing up and taking those away.

I get the impression Palmer is saying he wants to stretch the field more but you sure don't see that in his play, he's got such nervous feet now, the idea that he wants us to run more downfield plays I'm not sure I buy, he's not stepping up on the shorter balls would he really do it on the deeper routes?

 

[john h]

Right now I feel like I imagined Notre Dame fans did a few years ago when they realized Charlie Weis was simply not as good as he said he was and that they didn't really have a strategic advantage going into each game because their coach was so smart. I think Arians can coach, but I think he thinks he's better than he really is and it continues to harm us.

The safety is ultimately on Palmer for not stepping up and throwing the ball but in reality it's on Arians. First off if Harbaugh can sprint down the sideline to call a timeout to avoid a delay, why can't Arians call TO himself? And then to have Palmer throw out of the end zone? The game thread everyone was predicting a safety the minute we got the ball. That was bad coaching plain and simple.

Palmer was terrible, off the backfoot all game.

It started wtih the first drive of the game, 3rd down, Roberts on his left is wide open for the first, but Palmer throws short, left to Ellington and we punt. They were in the same area of the field so Palmer had to be looking in Roberts' area but he didn't see him or chose not to throw it. Can't win like that against the 49ers.

All day back foot high throws. Finally has a chance to make a big play downfield on a broken play and he throws the wrong direction to Housler. Even the biggest play of the game was somewhat a fluke that was damn near a picksix on the TD to Fitz.

I'm really disappointed in both Arians and Palmer, I expected much more from both of them. This game was there, we had Mendenhall running hard, we had Ellington playing well, Taylor had a couple of tough runs, and what does Arians do get cute and give the ball to Smith and he fumbles ending the game.

I recall one play that is going to bother me for at least a month. It was 3rd and 2 for a first down. The call was a pass of about 20 yds down the left side which obviously went no where. What was our coach thinking?

There will be more than enough post about how bad the Cards offense was including the head coach so I will make one good post. I thought our defense played very well

 

[Duckjake]

Palmer needs to man up. A QB with 10 years in the NFL getting schooled by a rookie Safety.

Why is it that so many guys come to Arizona and suddenly forget how to play football? Palmer's completion %, not counting the season he only played 4 games, is the lowest of his career. His interception % is the highest.

Thank you football gods for giving us one guy who after 3 seasons overcame the Arizona curse in Kurt Warner.

 

[Jay Cardinal]

All day back foot high throws. Finally has a chance to make a big play downfield on a broken play and he throws the wrong direction to Housler. Even the biggest play of the game was somewhat a fluke that was damn near a picksix on the TD to Fitz.

I am surprised more has not been said about the high throws. Palmer is starting to look like Derek Anderson, and that is not acceptable. With the high throws we are putting our star receivers in a position to be hurt. I cringe when I see the 10-foot high pass, because I know Larry will do anything in his power to catch it. Not to mention that missing up high rather than low into the ground leads to a ton of interceptions.